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  #61  
Old 04.11.2016, 07:48
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Re: Is my career over?

OP, for me it's not quite clear whether you want a career or a job. I'm not being pedantic here just for the lulz, but you mentioned that your last position was marketing director, are you looking for something similar only, in this field?
If you do - you're right, no matter others may say - A2 level in German or anything bellow B2/C1 won't get you anywhere in a Swiss company.
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Old 04.11.2016, 08:19
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Re: Is my career over?

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That is an assumption, but I do blame the Swiss for the way they handle the Hague Convention which limits the location where I can live to Zurich only, the place where I have the least job options. I am an unmarried mother who needs permission from my ex to relocate more than 30km away from where my child was born. Other countries recognise the need to earn a living, in CH they cannot deal with any circumstance that is not text book because the new rule is only 2 years old so is as strict as it can get
With all due respect, the father has rights and it is only fair that he does... No you can't just grab your kid and move back to OZ - how would you react if the situation were reversed?

I don't know enough about that new law or rather all I know is that you need permission to move if a move has consequences on how to manage joint custody. The same is true in reverse and he cannot do as he pleases either. New regulations have been introduced due to men's pressure after years of favoring the mother. Could you really do as you wanted in OZ? Could you move from Sydney to Brisbane without anyone giving a toss and everyone telling the father, well tough luck? I indeed don't know and it's an honest question.

You may be an unmarried mother, but the kid is still yours and that of your partner and not yours alone.

I understand the difficulty of the situation and yes maybe they're stricter than they have to be. But Switzerland is known for being strict on certain things cause in the big scheme of things, this tends to benefit the majority
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  #63  
Old 04.11.2016, 08:57
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Re: Is my career over?

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Even Koko the Gorilla learnt sign language in less time!
That's hugely unfair.



























Koko was bribed with bananas
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  #64  
Old 04.11.2016, 09:18
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Re: Is my career over?

From the profile page : "My career is over thanks to the Swiss"

A bad workman blames his tools !

No wonder you can't get a jop here with that attitude
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Old 04.11.2016, 09:54
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Re: Is my career over?

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From the profile page : "My career is over thanks to the Swiss"

A bad workman blames his tools !

No wonder you can't get a jop here with that attitude
You're just repeating what others raised much earlier, the topic has progressed beyond that now.
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Old 04.11.2016, 12:01
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Re: Is my career over?

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I understand the difficulty of the situation and yes maybe they're stricter than they have to be. But Switzerland is known for being strict on certain things cause in the big scheme of things, this tends to benefit the majority
I don't want to completely derail this topic here, but it seems to me like a lot of these new changes mostly seem to benefit men, whilst not a whole lot is being done to further the empowerment and independence of women...

I mean, not in theory maybe, but in practice it does tend to work out in the favour of men most of the times for some reason...
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  #67  
Old 04.11.2016, 12:16
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Re: Is my career over?

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I don't want to completely derail this topic here, but it seems to me like a lot of these new changes mostly seem to benefit men, whilst not a whole lot is being done to further the empowerment and independence of women...
We have had nothing but policies and laws seeking to protect and benefit women for decades now, with absolutely nothing to redress legal disadvantages that men face, particularly in family law, and the moment one law is passed that seeks to redress inequality against men, someone has the gall to claim that women's rights are being ignored.

Seriously, f**k off.
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Old 04.11.2016, 12:20
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Re: Is my career over?

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I don't want to completely derail this topic here, but it seems to me like a lot of these new changes mostly seem to benefit men, whilst not a whole lot is being done to further the empowerment and independence of women...

I mean, not in theory maybe, but in practice it does tend to work out in the favour of men most of the times for some reason...
You're right, they're completely one sided. Were it not for these changes I would have ended up with even less than the almost half share I did end up with had it not been for them. Had it not been for my desire to ensure legal access to my children I would have fought for the half of our shared assets to which I had a legal right.

Divorces are messy. Don't presume that men, or women, are somehow more reasonable as a result of what gender they are.
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Old 04.11.2016, 12:47
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Re: Is my career over?

Don't get me wrong: I'm all for shared custody. But to prohibit someone from leaving the country just because they happened to live in Switzerland when a baby was conceived and/or delivered seems a bit... constricting to me. Especially for a country with such a huge expat count.


And I also feel like the Swiss laws and regulations are very conventional when it comes to certain things, but these new laws are actually quite progressive. Nothing wrong progressive laws an sich, but I kind of fail to see how the combination of the two is supposed to work out in practice...

For example... The difficulties people are having to find day care combined with the sheer costs of day care. The tax system (in case of marriage) that basically views the wife's income as 'secondary', in spite of what she's making. This all kind of contributes to the feeling that the Swiss kind of encourage 'their' women to stay at home and depend on their male counterparts. But when you look at all these new laws on how wealth is distributed after a divorce and how to deal with custody over children after separation, it kind of forces women in a position where they no longer possibly can feel comfortable depending on a man... And I feel that the changes that are needed to accommodate this level of independence for women kind of lag behind...
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Old 04.11.2016, 12:50
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Re: Is my career over?

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Don't get me wrong: I'm all for shared custody. But to prohibit someone from leaving the country just because they happened to live in Switzerland when a baby was conceived and/or delivered seems a bit... constricting to me
This is nothing new - and not a Swiss only issue.

I know of a divorced couple who had the same issues 12 years ago. The father (custody) wasn't allowed to leave the country until the child was a certain age - and there after had to pay for 2 trips per year for the child (back to Switzerland) or the mother to them.

The laws exists to prevent one parent kidnapping the child and taking them abroad.
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Old 04.11.2016, 13:00
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OP, for me it's not quite clear whether you want a career or a job. I'm not being pedantic here just for the lulz, but you mentioned that your last position was marketing director, are you looking for something similar only, in this field?
If you do - you're right, no matter others may say - A2 level in German or anything bellow B2/C1 won't get you anywhere in a Swiss company.

Naturally at first I expected to continue my 'career' but now I understand the market I am more humble and just want a job. I start thinking about patching income together between my UK BTL (which is less lucrative these days), a menial job, and Maintenance money (but that may or may not be available and I don't want to rely on that).

Ive thought about living on half my RAV money for 2017 so that I can last until 2018. An overwhelming need to buy myself more time to find solutions.

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With all due respect, the father has rights and it is only fair that he does... No you can't just grab your kid and move back to OZ - how would you react if the situation were reversed?

I don't know enough about that new law or rather all I know is that you need permission to move if a move has consequences on how to manage joint custody. The same is true in reverse and he cannot do as he pleases either. New regulations have been introduced due to men's pressure after years of favoring the mother. Could you really do as you wanted in OZ? Could you move from Sydney to Brisbane without anyone giving a toss and everyone telling the father, well tough luck? I indeed don't know and it's an honest question.

You may be an unmarried mother, but the kid is still yours and that of your partner and not yours alone.

I understand the difficulty of the situation and yes maybe they're stricter than they have to be. But Switzerland is known for being strict on certain things cause in the big scheme of things, this tends to benefit the majority

Just to be clear I am an Australian citizen born in the UK. My daughter loves her dad and I will not make the decision to return to live in Australia until she grows up. It is simply too far away @24 hours on plane. My mother is Australian and my father is British, and I did not see him when they separated, so I will never do that to my kid because I know what she would miss first hand.

My ex has his own business, I asked him if he will live between the UK & Switzerland to enable me to work. I offered him financial benefits and his own accommodation which was going to be a big commitment for me financially but he said No this week.

As a second option if UK is not possible for our child to relocate to, according to the authorities in review of our situation this month, and they are representing & speaking on behalf of our daughter. I am merely asking: Can I move to Basel, Biel, Lugano, Neuchâtel, Geneva? I just want to work again to provide for my kid. At this point my demands are basic Maslows Hierachy of Needs related, I believe.

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We have had nothing but policies and laws seeking to protect and benefit women for decades now, with absolutely nothing to redress legal disadvantages that men face, particularly in family law, and the moment one law is passed that seeks to redress inequality against men, someone has the gall to claim that women's rights are being ignored.

Seriously, f**k off.

This specific topic is about a clash between the Hague Convention which is a strong anti-movement order to keep separating families in line, and the Human right of Freedom of Movement. In Australian law custody cases take into account the parents freedom of movement on a case by case basis in relation to work, lifestyle, new relationships because it is relevant to the childs' happiness. Of course the visiting parents needs are considered as well, but to date in Switzerland there only 2 precedents of women who were allowed to relocate for these reasons.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 06.11.2016 at 20:00. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 04.11.2016, 13:51
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Re: Is my career over?

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I don't want to completely derail this topic here, but it seems to me like a lot of these new changes mostly seem to benefit men, whilst not a whole lot is being done to further the empowerment and independence of women...

I mean, not in theory maybe, but in practice it does tend to work out in the favour of men most of the times for some reason...
A lot of these new changes? What, pray tell, were all the other ones that 'benefit men'?

Men get the raw deal in almost every single child custody and divorce case in Europe, and any controls designed to maintain access to their child is a good thing.

In the end the OP chose to have a kid here in Switzerland with this man, thus creating a lifelong bond. She now needs to live with the consequences of that choice, as does he.
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  #73  
Old 04.11.2016, 14:01
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Re: Is my career over?

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I am an unmarried mother who needs permission from my ex to relocate more than 30km away from where my child was born. Other countries recognise the need to earn a living, in CH they cannot deal with any circumstance that is not text book because the new rule is only 2 years old so is as strict as it can get.
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As a second option if UK is not possible for our child to relocate to, according to the authorities in review of our situation this month, and they are representing & speaking on behalf of our daughter. I am merely asking: Can I move to Basel, Biel, Lugano, Neuchâtel, Geneva? I just want to work again to provide for my kid. At this point my demands are basic Maslows Hierachy of Needs related, I believe.
Can you clarify custody arrangements? Reading your first post and the 30km limit would indicate shared primary custody - IE approximately equal time at each parent.

If that is the case then it is clear why there would be a limit - especially in light of your child entering kindergarten and then school.

If the father only sees the child every other weekend you may find you have more luck going back to court in order to loosen those restrictions. If you are are only going to KESB you may find them less than helpful.
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Old 04.11.2016, 14:05
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Re: Is my career over?

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Don't get me wrong: I'm all for shared custody. But to prohibit someone from leaving the country just because they happened to live in Switzerland when a baby was conceived and/or delivered seems a bit... constricting to me. Especially for a country with such a huge expat count.
Sure, and forcing someone to pay child support for twenty years for a child that they would not have had, had they been born another gender, is probably a bit constricting too. But that's what the law judges is necessary for the good of the child, hopefully seeking to also take into account the rights of both parents.

Or are you suggesting that such constriction is only good for one gender?
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Nothing wrong progressive laws an sich, but I kind of fail to see how the combination of the two is supposed to work out in practice...
I'd imagine that those 'conventional' laws won't go anywhere if more people like you complain whenever they're reformed.
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This specific topic is about a clash between the Hague Convention which is a strong anti-movement order to keep separating families in line, and the Human right of Freedom of Movement. In Australian law custody cases take into account the parents freedom of movement on a case by case basis in relation to work, lifestyle, new relationships because it is relevant to the childs' happiness. Of course the visiting parents needs are considered as well, but to date in Switzerland there only 2 precedents of women who were allowed to relocate for these reasons.
I'm not sure why you're replying to my post, as it was itself a response to something and someone completely different.

Nonetheless, I would note that you claimed that your wish to leave (Switzerland, being the implication) was to 'earn a living'. This does not bare with what you've posted, because you've made it clear that your interest is not simply to earn a living but to continue developing your career.

So if you want to make the case that being able to repatriate to Australia is more "relevant to the childs' happiness" than their contact to their father, you can, but it's not terribly convincing.
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Old 04.11.2016, 14:10
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Re: Is my career over?

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My ex has his own business, I asked him if he will live between the UK & Switzerland to enable me to work. I offered him financial benefits and his own accommodation which was going to be a big commitment for me financially but he said No this week.

As a second option if UK is not possible for our child to relocate to, according to the authorities in review of our situation this month, and they are representing & speaking on behalf of our daughter. I am merely asking: Can I move to Basel, Biel, Lugano, Neuchâtel, Geneva? I just want to work again to provide for my kid. At this point my demands are basic Maslows Hierachy of Needs related, I believe.
In fairness all this, and what you've offered him, sound quite reasonable - although you are effectively asking him to make sacrifices in his career so you don't have to. Problem is that here, with only your side of the story, it's impossible to know what is the truth. I've been where you've been and the resentment at belligerence that can remain after a relationship is over can take years to resolve and I suspect you're still in the early days.

All I can do is wish you the best in you both doing so because when that happens your only regret will be for you both that you will have taken so long to do so.
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Old 04.11.2016, 14:24
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Re: Is my career over?

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This specific topic is about a clash between the Hague Convention which is a strong anti-movement order to keep separating families in line, and the Human right of Freedom of Movement. In Australian law custody cases take into account the parents freedom of movement on a case by case basis in relation to work, lifestyle, new relationships because it is relevant to the childs' happiness. Of course the visiting parents needs are considered as well, but to date in Switzerland there only 2 precedents of women who were allowed to relocate for these reasons.
This is why unmarried women should always claim 'father unknown' if they don't want to end up thus.

Sorry, but you have to take the bad with the good.

Tom
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Old 04.11.2016, 15:08
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Re: Is my career over?

When a family is separating you have to look at the basics all over again. A basic need is earning income, a career is secondary. When a family is separating no one wins - as just one example if I go to the UK to enable me to earn a living and the father has to commute & therefore see his child less that does not make me happy. I would rather our daughter is with him more than anyone else.
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Old 04.11.2016, 16:13
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Re: Is my career over?

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A lot of these new changes? What, pray tell, were all the other ones that 'benefit men'?

Men get the raw deal in almost every single child custody and divorce case in Europe, and any controls designed to maintain access to their child is a good thing.

In the end the OP chose to have a kid here in Switzerland with this man, thus creating a lifelong bond. She now needs to live with the consequences of that choice, as does he.

I was mainly talking about the changes in laws about custody and changes in the division of assets in case of a divorce. So yeah, 'a lot' might have been somewhat of an overstatement.

I am all for equality, but I just don't feel like you can achieve it one field, without offering it in another. For men to have just as many rights as women when it comes to matters as custody and division of assets, women need to have equal opportunity and equality in the workplace as well. Otherwise it's just doomed to fail, in my humble opinion.

So I feel that, in order to achieve this kind of equality, the following issues (and then some) have to be addressed as well:
  • Make child care readily available, as well as affordable.
  • In the case of Switzerland, the tax penalty for married double earners has to go
  • Mothers, as well as fathers, should be able and encouraged (if not forced) to take paid maternity/paternity leave for the same amount of time.
  • An environment needs to be created in which it is possible, accepted as well as encouraged for parents to both work parttime, so they can equally be involved in raising their children.
  • The gender wage gap has to go. (I realize a bunch of people claim this is a myth and actually being caused by some of the decisions women make in their career path, but considering all of the above, I feel like it's more of a chicken or the egg dilemma than anything else. But whatever the underlying cause might be, this is an issue that needs to be addressed/resolved.)


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Sure, and forcing someone to pay child support for twenty years for a child that they would not have had, had they been born another gender, is probably a bit constricting too. But that's what the law judges is necessary for the good of the child, hopefully seeking to also take into account the rights of both parents.
And here I was thinking men could play an active part in preventing these kind of things from happening as well, but I guess when you have two heads, you are only required to use one at any given time...

Sorry man, but I can't really be arsed to respond to you in a serious manner anymore after you told me to 'f**k off' when I was trying to have an open and constructive discussion about things.
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Old 04.11.2016, 16:23
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Re: Is my career over?

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.....
  • The gender wage gap has to go. (I realize a bunch of people claim this is a myth and actually being caused by some of the decisions women make in their career path, but considering all of the above, I feel like it's more of a chicken or the egg dilemma than anything else. But whatever the underlying cause might be, this is an issue that needs to be addressed/resolved.)
....

The gender wage gap is a myth, it has been illegal in many countries for a considerable time. You are referring to the earning or pay gap.
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Old 04.11.2016, 16:30
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Re: Is my career over?

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I am all for equality, but I just don't feel like you can achieve it one field, without offering it in another.
By that logic we should stop all equality reform, even for women, until it is offered bidirectionally. Or are you suggesting that women should have all rights they deem necessary for equality before any male grievance be addressed? Do you even realise how utterly stupid and self-serving such a demand is?

To hear someone whinge that for men to have finally had one single law changed to redress the gross inequality in matters of family law was ignoring women's rights, has to be the most grotesque gender fascism I've heard in a long time. You might not think so, but we've already established that you also make claims that turn out to be false to begin with. I don't think you have a notion of equality means - it's not just the good stuff that suits one side, BTW.
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Sorry man, but I can't really be arsed to respond to you in a serious manner anymore after you told me to 'f**k off' when I was trying to have an open and constructive discussion about things.
Sorry, but I can't be bothered to respond with anything other than f**k off to a misandrist bigot.
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