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  #21  
Old 18.11.2016, 12:18
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

Ok, we seem to get a bit of confusion on here about this: If you get your vacation and holidays paid are you not a contractor... your are simply an employee. Wether or not your are an employee of the company or some service company in between doesn't matter. A contractor is basiclly self employed.

Getting 50 CHF an hour translates to 8k a month gross based on a 40 hour work week to keep things simple. This would mean 104k gross if you'd work full time. Since you mentioned travelling is the question weather or not you get decent expense packages which can be significant.

It's a pretty normal salary for many parts of the country. Weather or not that is good for your job? No idea, different industry...
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  #22  
Old 18.11.2016, 12:37
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

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Ok, we seem to get a bit of confusion on here about this: If you get your vacation and holidays paid are you not a contractor... your are simply an employee. Wether or not your are an employee of the company or some service company in between doesn't matter. A contractor is basiclly self employed.
It's often how the agencies give the figures. I'm guessing the rate unadjusted for holidays etc is the 50CHF and when you factor in the so-called paid holidays then it gives the other figure.

When I moved from euro contract to Swiss one I basically factored in extra expenses and adjusted my euro rate. I think my hourly rate was like 50% more than in the eurozone.

I've been asked before by agents "What's the lowest you'd work for?" and I guess if you have no other options sometimes you've got to answer that question.
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Old 18.11.2016, 13:31
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

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It's often how the agencies give the figures. I'm guessing the rate unadjusted for holidays etc is the 50CHF and when you factor in the so-called paid holidays then it gives the other figure.

When I moved from euro contract to Swiss one I basically factored in extra expenses and adjusted my euro rate. I think my hourly rate was like 50% more than in the eurozone.

I've been asked before by agents "What's the lowest you'd work for?" and I guess if you have no other options sometimes you've got to answer that question.
What the agency has quoted in bruttolohnstuden is with holiday pay (two types) one at 8.33% and one at 3.20% and 13 months pay at 8.33%. As for the overseas i guess this will be calculated into the main contract not this basic one i have been given so far. so i guess if i would have to travel to south america then it will be longer than 8 hours. which is another questions of overtime rate. Where i worked before i just had one rate per hour unless i had to work in the night then i got a few hours more. I just wanted to post this in the forum as i do not work in IT. I was thinking of asking for 60 CHF per Brutto.
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Old 18.11.2016, 14:04
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

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I've been asked before by agents "What's the lowest you'd work for?" and I guess if you have no other options sometimes you've got to answer that question.
Yeah, but if you are an experienced specialist as the poster makes it sound is the answer rarely "40 CHF an hour"... I've just sent out an offer to a client where I charge three times as much for our 17yr old trainee doing basic IT work. The poster is in a professional line of business and I'd expect that new start up company to charge more than that for him... so either:
1. They are trying to get into the market with dumping prices... with the employees at the receiving end of the strategy...
2. They are planning with a pretty nice margin on their side...

On top of that does "freelance" in this case apparently mean "you hang around for free till we need you"... to which I'd also give a "professional" answer. Either a decent rate as a perm no matter how the business goes, or some serious bucks for only the hours you need me...
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Old 18.11.2016, 14:08
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

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What the agency has quoted in bruttolohnstuden is with holiday pay (two types) one at 8.33% and one at 3.20% and 13 months pay at 8.33%. As for the overseas i guess this will be calculated into the main contract not this basic one i have been given so far. so i guess if i would have to travel to south america then it will be longer than 8 hours. which is another questions of overtime rate. Where i worked before i just had one rate per hour unless i had to work in the night then i got a few hours more. I just wanted to post this in the forum as i do not work in IT. I was thinking of asking for 60 CHF per Brutto.
Unless you are in a senior management position do you have a legal right to get paid 25% extra for overtime hours...
http://www.ad-voca.ch/fileadmin/pdf/..._UEberzeit.pdf
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Old 18.11.2016, 14:17
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

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Unless you are in a senior management position do you have a legal right to get paid 25% extra for overtime hours...
http://www.ad-voca.ch/fileadmin/pdf/..._UEberzeit.pdf
And senior management is VERY senior, though some companies try to interpret it differently until they're called out.
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Old 18.11.2016, 14:22
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

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Yeah, but if you are an experienced specialist as the poster makes it sound is the answer rarely "40 CHF an hour"... I've just sent out an offer to a client where I charge three times as much for our 17yr old trainee doing basic IT work. The poster is in a professional line of business and I'd expect that new start up company to charge more than that for him... so either:
1. They are trying to get into the market with dumping prices... with the employees at the receiving end of the strategy...
2. They are planning with a pretty nice margin on their side...

On top of that does "freelance" in this case apparently mean "you hang around for free till we need you"... to which I'd also give a "professional" answer. Either a decent rate as a perm no matter how the business goes, or some serious bucks for only the hours you need me...
This is my concern, the agency are quoting 50chf brutto but no where in the contract does it say 100% or less it just says its unlimited. Which is all very well but unlimited contract with out working is useless. Like you said if its 100% or just a few hours or once a week then there is a big difference in the hourly rate. This is that this company offered my 86,000 two years ago as a permie then told me they couldnt take me on and now they are offering 104,000 with contracting. In that respect is good. Maybe i need to get into IT :0)
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Old 18.11.2016, 14:23
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

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And senior management is VERY senior, though some companies try to interpret it differently until they're called out.
it's not senior mamnagement but just an employee.
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  #29  
Old 18.11.2016, 14:34
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

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This is my concern, the agency are quoting 50chf brutto but no where in the contract does it say 100% or less it just says its unlimited. Which is all very well but unlimited contract with out working is useless. Like you said if its 100% or just a few hours or once a week then there is a big difference in the hourly rate. This is that this company offered my 86,000 two years ago as a permie then told me they couldnt take me on and now they are offering 104,000 with contracting. In that respect is good. Maybe i need to get into IT :0)

A contractor is much more flexible in the sense that a company can fire him within a week instead of months, but it does not mean you need to sit around till they call you... you should agree on an average workload of x% and a rate of y. If they want you to suddenly work more can you get some overtime payment. If they suddenly run out of work should you have a clause how much you get as a minimum. I have employed freelancers before who indeed sit around and wait till a short term contract for a week or two comes around. It goes a bit like this: If a perm guy would cost you x does a 6-12 month contractor cost you around 1.5 time the price. A short term freelancer might bill 2-3 times the price of a permanent employee to cover for his idle time.

I don't know how to phrase it differently, but you clearly need to understand what they actually want to offer you. Don't sign some blanket contracts that don't specify how much you work, that's not how contracting works. And don't sign anything you don't fully understand... It seems to me they want a freelancer at the fraction of the cost of a permanent employee...
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  #30  
Old 05.02.2017, 03:58
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

Hey guys, just wanted to reply to this thread as opposed to starting a new one.

From reading through this thread I don't really see any consensus on this issue.

Where I used to work, the company was charging clients 220 CHF per hour for our services. As a "permanent" employee I was earning 45 CHF an hour from that.

I've been contacted by an Indian recruitment agency regarding a 6 month contract. I've searched through the forums but haven't found any really solid guidance regarding contracts like this. My gut feeling is telling me not to deal with such a company anyways, but I'm still looking for a ballpark figure thats more or less "market oriented" for future reference.

FYI I'm in the Network Engineering field, if that helps.

Thanks in advance!
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  #31  
Old 03.04.2017, 20:01
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

Thanks, a lot of good informations here.

It is really hard to find information about contractor rates. I have been offered something and I thought it was good but reading more now it doesn't seems that attractive.

100 per hour via agency and a damn long contract. I think I will prob go along and at the end try to negotiate with the agency a higher rate or a shorter contract.

According to some posts here 100 per hour is like 100k permanent position.

It would be nice if people working as contract would give some info on
Junior / Senior / Management positions.
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  #32  
Old 03.04.2017, 20:35
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

Many contractors i know are in their lowest rates ever.
Or went permanent.

Some as low as zero, coz the competition is too fierce. And the ones in work are on short renewals.

The only ones doing ok are looking termers on legacy rates, or very specialist, or working for business not IT.

If you can get 100 per hour you're wells I've above average for standard IT monkey
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Old 03.04.2017, 20:42
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

You don't say what you do so how can anyone answer whether it's good?

For mid level IT in financial services it's decent in this climate
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  #34  
Old 03.04.2017, 21:08
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

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Many contractors i know are in their lowest rates ever.
Or went permanent.

Some as low as zero, coz the competition is too fierce. And the ones in work are on short renewals.

The only ones doing ok are looking termers on legacy rates, or very specialist, or working for business not IT.

If you can get 100 per hour you're wells I've above average for standard IT monkey
You really have no touch with reality. Seriously no offence but you're on the wrong part of IT if you really believe that. Many Fintech companies pay minimum 540chf to 1000 for good developers.
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Old 03.04.2017, 21:23
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

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You really have no touch with reality. Seriously no offence but you're on the wrong part of IT if you really believe that. Many Fintech companies pay minimum 540chf to 1000 for good developers.
540 CHF per day for 8.4 hours is 65 per hour.
But you're insulting me for saying 100 per hour is generous?

BIS are paying 92 per hour for MDX monkeys and they are above average.

I guess I should not be a hiring manager then. Poor me. I'll resign tomorrow.
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Old 03.04.2017, 21:43
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

I know the IT market here quite well. Nowadays 90-100 CHF/hour in Zurich is a good standard rate but nothing exceptional. 540/day is poor - not acceptable but for juniors. I know a SAP contractor that gets >2K CHF/day. I am afraid that the Brexit will wash down IT contractors from the island en masse so that the rate will go downhill like never seen before.
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Old 03.04.2017, 21:43
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

My bad, I misread your post and the numbers.
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  #38  
Old 03.04.2017, 21:46
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

Some context,

Senior software engineer with low/ mid level responsibilities, like product owner/ leading small teams.

As permanent my company prob get 200+ per hour but since we take whole projects it involves more risks.
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  #39  
Old 03.04.2017, 23:47
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

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I am afraid that the Brexit will wash down IT contractors from the island en masse so that the rate will go downhill like never seen before.
You'll have to explain that theory a bit more.
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Old 04.04.2017, 08:03
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Re: Contract Rates in Zurich

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You'll have to explain that theory a bit more.
Really?
a) There are a lot of contractors in IT in Londons banking sector as the UKs laws are very friendly for people wanting to become self employed.
b) If one assumes that Brexit will be bad for the banks in London will the contractors typically be the first to go cause they are the easiest to be fired.
c) if those fired look for work elsewhere in Europe will there be a bigger offer than there is already today which will not exactly have a positive effect on rates...

In my eyes is it pretty simple> IT is changing a lot and I think this has a much deeper impact than any Brexit. A lot of the jobs that used to pay well in the past don't exist anymore. Anything with infrastructure in it is getting challenged as modern cloud data centers are a magnitude more efficient and therefore in the end cheaper... and the jobs left there won't necessarily be in CH. A lot of other jobs are getting moved abroad or staffed with people coming to CH willing to accept sub standard rates. I just met a German IT services company who has a small sales office in ZH but delivers everything from some provincial town out in the not so cool parts of Germany. An experienced IT person there earns about 50k EUR a year... and is happy about it. A lot of the CH banks and insurances have moved IT jobs to near-shore locations and while everyone is complaining about how bad their Polish IT actually performs do I for one not see these jobs coming back.
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