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  #101  
Old 03.12.2016, 13:29
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Re: Is 68k yearly gross a decent salary in Zurich?

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Likewise taxes
Ops, you were right on target. Taxes in Italy are EASILY 3 times or more than in CH.
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  #102  
Old 03.12.2016, 13:41
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Re: Is 68k yearly gross a decent salary in Zurich?

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The groan was for telling me I was wrong and then pretty much repeating word for word what Dandy had said. The snarkiness - well if you wade in regarding primary school maths and get it wrong, you're going to get a bit of a ribbing. No offence intended.

And thanks was for being a good sport and adding a further link

Fwiw I know what the colloquial usage is, but Dandy wants to make a thing about the mean and median, when it's irrelevant, he/she should at least get his/her terminology correct.
Stop whining they can say what they want
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  #103  
Old 03.12.2016, 13:57
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Re: Is 68k yearly gross a decent salary in Zurich?

With 68k you can live ok in Zürich. I had much less when I first moved here and I even managed to go out for dinner It really depends on what you spend the money. Make sure you have time to look for apartment bc it will take a while but outside of Zürich you'll find nice ones for a decend price, f.e. in Stettbach or Glatt. Don't worry about it too much. I know many ppl who earn less and still can afford a nice lifestyle.
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  #104  
Old 03.12.2016, 14:05
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Re: Is 68k yearly gross a decent salary in Zurich?

Hey, I have exported the data from my bank account to excell to understand a bit about the cost of living.

First, the monthly average spending from this year was <3,5k.
I spent ~1,5k fixed expenses: rent, insurance, phone, net, transport abo.

Looking deeper usually I spent ~2,5k but also few months close to 5k.
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  #105  
Old 03.12.2016, 14:24
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Re: Is 68k yearly gross a decent salary in Zurich?

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It's poverty level. Netto, you'll probably have something like 3500 Fr per month after mandatory deductions and taxes, which means you can only afford 1100 Fr to spend on apartment (1/3 rule). It's not so realistic to find such cheap apartments in Zurich these days, so you'd probably have to live in a flatshare on that salary. It's doable though, students live even on less here
No. S/he would be able to rent and apartment max 1888 as that is 1/3 of gross.

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I'm not confusing anything. It is not a law indeed, just a guideline. But every landlord you'll be dealing with here most likely will use it to decline your application. There's enough higher earning applicants here, and cheap flats are in high demand.
You are. It's not a law and certainly not _every_ landlord. I know that for a fact.

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The 1/3 rule is on gross salary, not net after deduction, just to be clear for others.

Yeah!!! Finally! But I'm repeating it as it's buried in the middle of the thread.
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  #106  
Old 03.12.2016, 14:37
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Re: Is 68k yearly gross a decent salary in Zurich?

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You are. It's not a law and certainly not _every_ landlord. I know that for a fact.

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The 1/3 rule is on gross salary, not net after deduction, just to be clear for others.
Yeah!!! Finally! But I'm repeating it as it's buried in the middle of the thread.
Here's one opinion that it should be net income. It seems to cite BGE 119 II 36 E. 3d case as a reference, but I can't really read french to double check.

The rule is not firmly anchored anywhere in the law, so it's subject to interpretations. Some people would interpret as a brutto, some as netto. To be on the safer side, take it as a netto. Especially for cheaper apartments. There's enough people with income much more than 3x looking for cheap apartments. Tenants with higher income are generally safer. In the higher price range the landlords would be more willing to bend the rules of course, and accept 1/3 of brutto, as they get less choice of tenants anyway.
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  #107  
Old 03.12.2016, 14:44
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Re: Is 68k yearly gross a decent salary in Zurich?

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Here's one opinion that it should be net income. It seems to cite BGE 119 II 36 E. 3d case as a reference, but I can't really read french to double check.

The rule is not firmly anchored anywhere in the law, so it's subject to interpretations. Some people would interpret as a brutto, some as netto. To be on the safer side, take it as a netto.
Well that's one opinion. Regardless, rule of thumb is still 1/3 of gross.

And last but not least: the net salary of non-Swiss is NOT the same as the net salary of Swiss. So if you want to go by the net salary for non-Swiss, at least be fair and exclude taxes from that calculation as clearly, that is what the Swiss go by. So the net salary that actually counts would be around 5k in OPs case. Which needless to say is plenty to get a very decent apartment for yourself pretty much anywhere in this country.
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  #108  
Old 03.12.2016, 15:39
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Re: Is 68k yearly gross a decent salary in Zurich?

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Here's one opinion that it should be net income. It seems to cite BGE 119 II 36 E. 3d case as a reference, but I can't really read french to double check.
Interesting. In one way the law try to protect "silly" people willing to devote everything to live in a nice flat of their dreams even though their life would be socially-excluded poverty. On the other hand they help people who find themselves in such situation by a means of social money. All in all the people who are willing to come and have to find their first flat are in the worst situation as with common sense of the law they should not come here and agree to such miserable life...
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  #109  
Old 03.12.2016, 16:46
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Re: Is 68k yearly gross a decent salary in Zurich?

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Here's one opinion that it should be net income. It seems to cite BGE 119 II 36 E. 3d case as a reference, but I can't really read french to double check.

The rule is not firmly anchored anywhere in the law, so it's subject to interpretations. Some people would interpret as a brutto, some as netto. To be on the safer side, take it as a netto. Especially for cheaper apartments. There's enough people with income much more than 3x looking for cheap apartments. Tenants with higher income are generally safer. In the higher price range the landlords would be more willing to bend the rules of course, and accept 1/3 of brutto, as they get less choice of tenants anyway.
It's quite possible it's net in the swiss sense, as Samaire posts above. It's certainly not net of taxes.

In any case on a salary of 68k a year, I wouldn't spend more than 25% cross. But finding an apartment is difficult as it is in many parts of the country. You have more compitition on cheaper apartments, less for more expensive ones.
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  #110  
Old 03.12.2016, 18:13
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Re: Is 68k yearly gross a decent salary in Zurich?

In my first few years in Switzerland, I earned a fair bit less than 68k brutto and paid just over 2000 chf a month for my flat.

So, yeah. There's no "rule". It's bollocks.

To the OP: you won't be rich, but you'll be fine, especially once you find your own tribe.

Good luck!
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  #111  
Old 03.12.2016, 18:45
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Re: Is 68k yearly gross a decent salary in Zurich?

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In one way the law try to protect "silly" people willing to devote everything to live in a nice flat of their dreams even though their life would be socially-excluded poverty. On the other hand they help people who find themselves in such situation by a means of social money.
No, they don't.

They will make you get a cheaper apartment.

Tom
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