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Old 30.04.2017, 10:26
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Job offer in Switzerland

Dear all,

I'm a engineering graduate (msc) with a less than a year of work experience, and I've got a job offer in Switzerland, in Lausanne. In this regard, I would have few questions for you:

1. Is CHF4000 a rubbish salary for my profession and experience?

Employer told me that this would be the salary for first 3 months (probation period), but afterwards it would increase. It sounds like a somewhat strange practise, but not sure whether this is normal in CH or not. In a case that salary wouldn't increase, it may be a bad deal in long term, as normal salary range for my profession and experience seem to be around CHF6500 (median salary based on Salarium -
https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home.../salarium.html). But on the other hand, I don't have a family, so CHF4000 might be acceptable as well?

2. What is typical cancellation period, if not stated in a contract?

As I can not see any cancellation period mentioned in the contract, I would guess that some default values appy, as defined by law.

Google returned me this:

"
Periods of notice
Make sure that the period of notice agreed in the employment contract was observed. If there is no written employment contract and no collective employment agreement, the period of notice is regulated by the Code of Obligations (CO). It comprises:

7 calendar days during the trial period (as of the end of any day)
1 month during the first year of service (as of the end of a given month)
2 months from the 2nd to the 9th year of service (as of the end of a given month)
3 months from the 10th year of service (as of the end of a given month)
Fixed term employment contracts end on a fixed date. It is not possible to terminate a fixed-term employment contract before the stated date, unless the contract provides for an early termination or good cause exists.
"


source: https://www.ch.ch/en/terminating-employment-contract/

In my case, that would be 7 days. Correct me, if I am wrong.

3. Is it usual in Switzerland, that employer reimburses travelling and accommodation costs for an applicant?
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  #2  
Old 30.04.2017, 10:30
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

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Dear all,

I'm a engineering graduate (msc) with a less than a year of work experience, and I've got a job offer in Switzerland, in Lausanne. In this regard, I would have few questions for you:

1. Is CHF4000 a rubbish salary for my profession and experience?


3. Is it usual in Switzerland, that employer reimburses travelling and accommodation costs for an applicant?
1 Yes (but then you do not have much experience)

3 Depends on the company, Id expect them to pay that
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Old 30.04.2017, 11:03
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

Do you have a job at the moment? If so continue looking! Termination conditions are always in a contract.
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Old 30.04.2017, 11:13
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

For a fresh grad, it's a bit low, but better than nothing.

Quite common for salary to move after initial 3 months.

Remember, it's always easier to find a new job if you are already in employment...take this and look around once you have a bit more experience.
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Old 30.04.2017, 11:17
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

Take it.
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Old 30.04.2017, 12:25
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

EU or non-EU? If the latter, then the permit may be rejected because the salary is lower than what is standard. For non-EU nationals employers have to prove they can't fnd a Swiss/EU nationa who could do the job. The criteria is outlined here:

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...zulassung.html
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Old 30.04.2017, 12:31
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

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EU or non-EU? If the latter, then the permit may be rejected because the salary is lower than what is standard. For non-EU nationals employers have to prove they can't fnd a Swiss/EU nationa who could do the job. The criteria is outlined here:

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...zulassung.html
eu.

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Take it.
so be it.
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Old 30.04.2017, 17:37
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

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Dear all,

I'm a engineering graduate (msc) with a less than a year of work experience, and I've got a job offer in Switzerland, in Lausanne. In this regard, I would have few questions for you:

1. Is CHF4000 a rubbish salary for my profession and experience?

Employer told me that this would be the salary for first 3 months (probation period), but afterwards it would increase. It sounds like a somewhat strange practise, but not sure whether this is normal in CH or not. In a case that salary wouldn't increase, it may be a bad deal in long term, as normal salary range for my profession and experience seem to be around CHF6500 (median salary based on Salarium -
https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home.../salarium.html). But on the other hand, I don't have a family, so CHF4000 might be acceptable as well?

2. What is typical cancellation period, if not stated in a contract?

As I can not see any cancellation period mentioned in the contract, I would guess that some default values appy, as defined by law.

Google returned me this:

"
Periods of notice
Make sure that the period of notice agreed in the employment contract was observed. If there is no written employment contract and no collective employment agreement, the period of notice is regulated by the Code of Obligations (CO). It comprises:

7 calendar days during the trial period (as of the end of any day)
1 month during the first year of service (as of the end of a given month)
2 months from the 2nd to the 9th year of service (as of the end of a given month)
3 months from the 10th year of service (as of the end of a given month)
Fixed term employment contracts end on a fixed date. It is not possible to terminate a fixed-term employment contract before the stated date, unless the contract provides for an early termination or good cause exists.
"


source: https://www.ch.ch/en/terminating-employment-contract/

In my case, that would be 7 days. Correct me, if I am wrong.

3. Is it usual in Switzerland, that employer reimburses travelling and accommodation costs for an applicant?
What is your field? Electrical, Mechanical,...?

It depends on your current situation, If you are employed elsewhere I recommend you not to accept the offer, it is too low. And to my experience it is unlikely that they will increase it much even afterwards.
Besides, if you are not in IT or Bioengineering, the prospect of other engineering jobs is not so good in Switzerland (especially in french speaking part)
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Old 30.04.2017, 20:05
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

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What is your field? Electrical, Mechanical,...?
both

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It depends on your current situation, If you are employed elsewhere I recommend you not to accept the offer, it is too low.
Well, I am employed, but outside CH. If I was employed in CH with a decent salary higher than a current offer, I wouldn't even consider it, right (assuming the economics being the main factor)?

My main goal is to gather some money on a long term and transfer it to my home country. I think Switzerland is best bet for this, as far it goes for Europe (and probably everything else as well).

In the place where I currently live, I make about EUR1000 of net savings after all costs (appartment, food, transportation, drunk weekends, etc..). In Switzerland from offered CHF4000, I may pull off about EUR1200 or so of net savings, so from economical standpoint I wouldn't even gain that much.

But on long term, hopefully, taking this job oppurtunity might be a good move from the investment perspective. This would give me swiss work experience, which would further increase my chanches of landing a decent job in a near future, and this is where the real money is.

But unfortunately, it's a bit dissapointing that I'd have to bet on new employer, rather hoping for a rise with the first one. As you say:

"And to my experience it is unlikely that they will increase it much even afterwards."

Maybe this is a reflection of what it might be a "swiss salary rise" policy; I've heard that in CH in general you don't progess that much with a salary - when the contract is signed the deal is sealed, so it's all about how you negotiate in the beginning.

Quote:
Besides, if you are not in IT or Bioengineering, the prospect of other engineering jobs is not so good in Switzerland (especially in french speaking part)
From what I've read it's not that bad - ABB & Alstom (both apparently in financial shitstorm), Bombardier, Emerson, Siemens, CERN, Bosch, Hilti...

But regardless, I don't know why one want to look for a job outside CH, if grabbing as much as money in shortest time is a major goal? I don't believe there is anything similar to CH on this planet, when it comes to earning easy money in a reliable way. And not only that one can save more bucks in CH as elsewhere, but one can save more bucks with a lower skilled work, than working anywhere else in a higher-skill position. In other words, you can make more transferable net savings as a store shelf-filler, than a technician (with 2 years experience) working in Germany. Well, at least that might hold true on paper.
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Old 30.04.2017, 20:09
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

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In the place where I currently live, I make about EUR1000 of net savings after all costs (appartment, food, transportation, drunk weekends, etc..). In Switzerland from offered CHF4000, I may pull off about EUR1200 or so of net savings, so from economical standpoint I wouldn't even gain that much.


With 48k p.a. you will not be able to save that amount per month, even if you live frugally. Unless that is saving per year?
From an economical standpoint you most likely will have less than you have now.
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Old 30.04.2017, 20:55
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

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I don't believe there is anything similar to CH on this planet, when it comes to earning easy money in a reliable way.
While certainly none of us have a crystal ball, I'd caution against making plans assuming that things will continue as they are in Switzerland. While not true everwhere, in certain segments of the Swiss marketplace 'die fetten Jahre sind vorbei'.

Some companies are finding that they are hampered against competition due to high priced Swiss labor that can't otherwise be justified. So something's gotta give.

Some larger companies are lowering labor costs, largely through moving jobs to lower cost locations or automating them out completely. But some companies are also reducing starting salaries (hence the offer you have) and slowing progression, with an eye to a 'soft reset'. New hires might not have the same prospects that earlier generations did.

But hey, only one person's observations. Grain o' salt, and all that.


All the best...
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Old 30.04.2017, 21:09
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

These may give you an idea of costs.

https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...chf-month.html

https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...-lausanne.html

Student stuff, but still the general figures will be what you need to be calculating with.

Also see the various thread links in this one:

https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...st-living.html
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Old 30.04.2017, 21:15
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

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With 48k p.a. you will not be able to save that amount per month, even if you live frugally. Unless that is saving per year?
From an economical standpoint you most likely will have less than you have now.
EUR1000 is per month.

I'm suprised that CHF4000 wouldn't be enough to pass my current saving rate.

Lets have a look:
CHF4000gross yields about CHF3000 net (after tax, social security... etc source: lohncomputer.ch).
Further expenses would be
*WG CHF800 (average CHF 700-900, source: WGzimmer.ch)
*health insurance CHF300
*public transport ticket CHF120 (source: SBB)
*food CHF 400 (no eating out...except some parts of woman's body)

Health service, including dentist, is covered by a cheap insurance from my home country.

So at the end, it's about CHF 1380 of savings, or ~EUR1300.
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Old 30.04.2017, 21:18
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

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Health service, including dentist, is covered by a cheap insurance from my home country.

So at the end, it's about CHF 1380 of savings, or ~EUR1300.
No, it wont as you need to take out health service here. And reality will show you that it wont be that amount
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Old 30.04.2017, 21:22
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

With that salary you'll be luck to save anything.
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Old 30.04.2017, 21:24
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

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Ok. These are not the best fields nowadays in Switzerland. The graduates have serious difficulties finding a decent job.

Well, I am employed, but outside CH. If I was employed in CH with a decent salary higher than a current offer, I wouldn't even consider it, right (assuming the economics being the main factor)?

My main goal is to gather some money on a long term and transfer it to my home country. I think Switzerland is best bet for this, as far it goes for Europe (and probably everything else as well).

In the place where I currently live, I make about EUR1000 of net savings after all costs (appartment, food, transportation, drunk weekends, etc..). In Switzerland from offered CHF4000, I may pull off about EUR1200 or so of net savings, so from economical standpoint I wouldn't even gain that much.


But on long term, hopefully, taking this job oppurtunity might be a good move from the investment perspective. This would give me swiss work experience, which would further increase my chanches of landing a decent job in a near future, and this is where the real money is.

But unfortunately, it's a bit dissapointing that I'd have to bet on new employer, rather hoping for a rise with the first one. As you say:

"And to my experience it is unlikely that they will increase it much even afterwards."

Maybe this is a reflection of what it might be a "swiss salary rise" policy; I've heard that in CH in general you don't progess that much with a salary - when the contract is signed the deal is sealed, so it's all about how you negotiate in the beginning.



From what I've read it's not that bad - ABB & Alstom (both apparently in financial shitstorm), Bombardier, Emerson, Siemens, CERN, Bosch, Hilti...

But regardless, I don't know why one want to look for a job outside CH, if grabbing as much as money in shortest time is a major goal? I don't believe there is anything similar to CH on this planet, when it comes to earning easy money in a reliable way. And not only that one can save more bucks in CH as elsewhere, but one can save more bucks with a lower skilled work, than working anywhere else in a higher-skill position. In other words, you can make more transferable net savings as a store shelf-filler, than a technician (with 2 years experience) working in Germany. Well, at least that might hold true on paper.
I assure you that you can not save 1200 euros per month out of CHF 4000 gross salary in Lausanne. even with the minimum standard of living. You will see only when you come here. when I was PhD student I was earning more and saving much less than that (consider that I had student housing and insurance)

Switzerland is not anymore as financially attractive for export-based companies(and as a result engineers) as it was 10 or even 5 years ago.

I did my PhD in EPF Lausanne in Mechanical engineering and exactly know the industrial situation. I would not accept the offer if I were you.
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Old 30.04.2017, 21:49
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

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3. Is it usual in Switzerland, that employer reimburses travelling and accommodation costs for an applicant?
If you were transferring as an expat yes, but it looks like you will a Swiss hire, so no.
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Old 01.05.2017, 00:38
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

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*food CHF 400 (no eating out...except some parts of woman's body)
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Old 01.05.2017, 01:57
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

Too low, you're being taken for a ride.

Make a counter-offer. If they refuse, reject it and keep looking.
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Old 01.05.2017, 10:40
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Re: Job offer in Switzerland

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Too low, you're being taken for a ride.

Make a counter-offer. If they refuse, reject it and keep looking.
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...I would not accept the offer if I were you.
What's the salary amount that I should request for a) the time in probation period and b) longer term (after the probation period)? Probably I'm asking for a very similar number between a) and b) because it was stated before, that in Switzerland salary doesn't rise much, as soon contract is signed.

So far thanks for all the answers.
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