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Old 21.05.2017, 00:15
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Employeer to change my role and move my contract to another company - my rights?

Hi all,

I am sure there will be some people on this forum in a similar situation, if they work for one of the big banks in Zürich that starts with "C" and ends with "Suisse"...

The situation is the following: it was decided to externalize contracts for support roles, meaning affected people would move their contract from the bank to the support company.
This actually means being employed by another company and also a change of job role. That would be a huge step back in my career and I would never accept it.

My first reaction was to resign as soon as possible - first to make clear my feeling about that idea but specially because if I don't resign before end of month, I would need to stay employed there 1 month more.

The questions is: do I lose some of my rights if I just resign myself?

It occurred to me that if I wait and reject the offer so they are the ones terminating the contract (instead of me), then I might have the right to be compensated with some months of salary or similar? Does somebody know if this is true?
For information, i have been working there for over 5 years with a permanent contract.

I don't want to stay there any longer than needed, as I am planning to move away from Zurich anyway, but I also don't want to lose my rights because of acting too fast.

Of course I will ask HR about this, but any advice would be very welcome.

Please comment also if you are in a similar situation!
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Old 21.05.2017, 00:25
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Re: Employeer to change my role and move my contract to another company - my rights?

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Hi all,

This actually means being employed by another company and also a change of job role. That would be a huge step back in my career and I would never accept it.

My first reaction was to resign as soon as possible - first to make clear my feeling about that idea but specially because if I don't resign before end of month, I would need to stay employed there 1 month more.

The questions is: do I lose some of my rights if I just resign myself?

It occurred to me that if I wait and reject the offer so they are the ones terminating the contract (instead of me), then I might have the right to be compensated with some months of salary or similar? Does somebody know if this is true?
For information, i have been working there for over 5 years with a permanent contract.
Why would it be a step back in your career?

Yes, you have disadvantages if you resign but similarly if you do not accept an equivalent job offer,

No compensation is necessary, TIS
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Old 21.05.2017, 00:52
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Re: Employeer to change my role and move my contract to another company - my rights?

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Hi all,

I am sure there will be some people on this forum in a similar situation, if they work for one of the big banks in Zürich that starts with "C" and ends with "Suisse"...

The situation is the following: it was decided to externalize contracts for support roles, meaning affected people would move their contract from the bank to the support company.
This actually means being employed by another company and also a change of job role. That would be a huge step back in my career and I would never accept it.

My first reaction was to resign as soon as possible - first to make clear my feeling about that idea but specially because if I don't resign before end of month, I would need to stay employed there 1 month more.

The questions is: do I lose some of my rights if I just resign myself?

It occurred to me that if I wait and reject the offer so they are the ones terminating the contract (instead of me), then I might have the right to be compensated with some months of salary or similar? Does somebody know if this is true?
For information, i have been working there for over 5 years with a permanent contract.

I don't want to stay there any longer than needed, as I am planning to move away from Zurich anyway, but I also don't want to lose my rights because of acting too fast.

Of course I will ask HR about this, but any advice would be very welcome.

Please comment also if you are in a similar situation!
If you don't take the job offered, you wont get any unemployment insurance for a long time & possibly none at all.

If you read your contract, the terms of termination are clear, as long as your notice period is paid then thats it, same rules work both ways so totally fair.
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Old 21.05.2017, 01:03
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Re: Employeer to change my role and move my contract to another company - my rights?

Thanks for the answers.

Like this I know what to expect when I talk with HR.

This is actually good so I can just resign and focus on pursuing other opportunities
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Old 21.05.2017, 01:15
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Re: Employeer to change my role and move my contract to another company - my rights?

EDIT: crossed with fatmanfilms' post.

General principle of being employed: never resign unless you have another job lined up, or are independently wealthy, or have enough funds shored up that you're ready to live off until you find another employer.
More specific principle of being employed in a market sector in which many people are being retrenched or having their jobs out-sourced: even more so, never resign while the market is being flooded with your newly unemployed colleagues.

Check your contract.
Check the notice period.
In Switzerland, any employer (and any employee) can terminate the contract, at any time, for no reason (with the exception of some special conditions, like pregnancy). Therefore, your current employer can give you notice according to whatever notice period you both agreed to and signed over 5 years ago, or any subsequent changes thereunto. You will, of course, be paid your salary during the months of your notice period (and very likely also be required to work during those months). That's it.

If there is any mention of compensation in that contract, then that's what you'd be entitled to. If there is no mention of compensation in that contract... well, then you have a normal Swiss working contract: "dismissal compensation" or "termination compensation" payments are not prescribed by law and are not usual here. With the exception of Golden Handshakes in the upper levels of management.

Resigning in order to make a protest statement, etc. is not something I'd recommend, either, as resignations are, in general, simply accepted, thank you very much. Most especially if your company is shifting jobs on a large scale, the HR Department will be glad of each employee who bekates him- or herself out of the shift and just goes away.

If you become unemployed, then you are entitled to unemployment insurance benefits.
If your employer terminates the contract, your entitlement starts immediately after the notice period. If, however, you resign, then the unemployment office sees you as having unnecessarily caused your own unemployment, and will penalise you by making you wait for a certain period (some months? you'd need to read up on that) during which you would receive no payments.
Therefore, with a view to receiving unemployment benefits, resigning is the worst possible thing you could do, as yes, you would definitely lose your right to benefits for that first waiting period.
There are many threads on this forum about unemployment benefits.

Like roegner, I don't understand why the new contract offered to you would be a step back in your career, such that you don't even want to consider accepting it.

Bear in mind, if you're out of the job you have now, and you will have to look for something else, that times are not so golden now. Indeed you - like many other unemployed people - may very find yourself having to accept a job which is less lovely than the one you have now.

If you go the route of claiming unemployment benefits, you are sure to be asked this question: Why did you not accept a job contract that was offered to you?
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Old 21.05.2017, 01:30
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Re: Employeer to change my role and move my contract to another company - my rights?

I think that the same recently happened to me at a company starting with U and ending with S. If I were to keep up or concern myself with all of the changes, then I'd have no time to breath, let alone work
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Old 21.05.2017, 01:31
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Re: Employeer to change my role and move my contract to another company - my rights?

P.S. to my above post:
What is there to prevent you accepting the new contract (even though you see it as a step back) and going along with it, working in that new role, and from that secure position look around for something that interests/pleases you more?
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Old 21.05.2017, 01:40
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Re: Employeer to change my role and move my contract to another company - my rights?

Many years ago I was contracting at ABN Amro in London. During my time there, the IT contractors (and permie IT employees) were shifted over to EDS, an outsourcing company.

At the beginning it was fine, as we were 'ring-fenced" for data security reasons and the team carried on as before. After a few months that changed and the ABN Amro support team got merged with the support of other EDS clients. The service to the client deteriorated as did the working environment. As I was a contractor, and this was back when companies were desperate to hire me for my SAP skills, I quit, went travelling for a few months, then simply got another contract when I returned to London.

As for my CV, it simply lists that period as "ABN Amro". After that, if I was contracted to an outsourcer for just one of their clients, I'd list it as "Client, via Outsourcer" on my CV. My 7 years here in Switzerland, as a permie, are listed the same way (as I was employed by an Indian IT company).

So what am I saying of relevance ... if you want to stay longer in Zurich, take the new contract and plan to change jobs. List it as Credit Suisse on the CV. If the outsouring company is well known, mention them. If you plan to leave Zurich, refuse to sign the contract change and prepare to be made redundant.
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Old 21.05.2017, 01:47
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Re: Employeer to change my role and move my contract to another company - my rights?

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If you plan to leave Zurich, refuse to sign the contract change and prepare to be made redundant.
... and understand that - unless it is specifically mentioned in your employment contract - your employer will not owe you any redundancy pay, as you might know it from other countries. You would get only your salary during your notice period, and that would end on your last day of employment. That's that.
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Old 21.05.2017, 07:06
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Re: Employeer to change my role and move my contract to another company - my rights?

Don't be fooled, HR work for CS, not for DonalNoye. They are not your friend. You have the right to join the Society of Banking Employees.
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Old 21.05.2017, 10:12
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Re: Employeer to change my role and move my contract to another company - my rights?

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List it as Credit Suisse on the CV. If the outsouring company is well known, mention them.
The story is even better... the "outsourcing company" is a wholly-owned subsidiary of CS set up for this purpose. The only thing that's changing is the legal entity for whom he works - he'll still be an internal CS employee.

Storm in a teacup, methinks.
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Old 21.05.2017, 10:43
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Re: Employeer to change my role and move my contract to another company - my rights?

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The story is even better... the "outsourcing company" is a wholly-owned subsidiary of CS set up for this purpose. The only thing that's changing is the legal entity for whom he works - he'll still be an internal CS employee.

Storm in a teacup, methinks.
Thats not really always the case, there are a number of differences that can take place. You can move to a company with a substantially lower reputation for a start which will have a soft effect on your CV. Working for Goldman Sachs in IT Support is a good thing to have on your CV, being transferred to a small local Swiss subsidiary that has an IT Support contract for them, is not, for the technician at least, the same at all in terms of quality on resume.

Also there can be creative accounting. I know of at least one colleague who moved from a large company where the annual bonus was 18% and since its inception had generally ranged between 100-120% of this value, i.e. bonus was always achieved. Upon moving to the subsidiary under the same T&C's the bonus was written the same, 18% of salary possible, however since moving the company has decided that each year 0% of the bonusable amount has been achieved by the subsidiary, i.e. no bonus whatsoever has been earned. Same T&C, real life consequence has been 18% drop in annual income.
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Old 21.05.2017, 11:42
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Re: Employeer to change my role and move my contract to another company - my rights?

Actually, I realized when I reread the OP that his situation might not be the one I was thinking of, so it's possible he's in a group that actually sounds going to an external company. It's a big bank, and probably a bit much for me to make assumptions.
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Old 21.05.2017, 21:33
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Re: Employeer to change my role and move my contract to another company - my rights?

Thanks for all the answers, it's actually nice that people actually took the time to write so detailed and long answers!
It helped also to hear from other people experiences.

The reason I don't consider the position offered as a real option is actually not because of being employed by another company but because of the change of job role (sorry I don't want to go into explaining specifics about my current role...)

Also, I am actually in the last stage of a interviewing process for a position I would really love to get, and have other interviews scheduled for potentially very interesting positions.

But I will take your advice and not resign just yet - I will just focus for now 100% in the upcoming interviews and job hunting in general
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