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  #41  
Old 17.07.2017, 16:42
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Re: How to land a job in CH

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In 31 years here, I have never worked where I was a native speaker (English).

Hell, most of the time, I have spoken French at work, despite never having lived in the French-speaking bit!

The only people I regularly don't speak French with are foreigners (in which cases, I speak Italian or German)!

Tom
Someone please remind Tom we are speaking about Switzerland, not about third world country regions like ticino. And it's about WORK, a foreign concept for many italians. Anyway, look the clock it's past 15:00, time to go back home, there's pizza waiting to be made
Oh bugger, did I used stereotypes?

Edit: it was a cheeky joke based on stereotypes, right? Since that's what I discussed against in this topic, I found somehow amusing to mock using one. Oh well... italians have no sense of humor. OOPS

Last edited by CorsebouTheReturn; 18.07.2017 at 10:10. Reason: Joke disclaimer
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  #42  
Old 17.07.2017, 16:44
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Re: How to land a job in CH

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In 31 years here, I have never worked where I was a native speaker (English).

Hell, most of the time, I have spoken French at work, despite never having lived in the French-speaking bit!

The only people I regularly don't speak French with are foreigners (in which cases, I speak Italian or German)!

Tom
Have you ever worked in a country where you were a native speaker.
And then in a large office (where you can't open the windows), where you are a minority and don't have any idea about Indian languages?

And then your job is overtaken because there are 6:1 each morning discussing..., in Indian before you even start work (time difference)?
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  #43  
Old 17.07.2017, 16:50
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Re: How to land a job in CH

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Maybe.
Maybe it also works as you say, yet that's discrimination.
And true, in this country, the system hardly protect against that. If it was the UK, many of these acts would be easily taken to justice and offenders easily punished.
Plus i'm not denying "how it works" in its entirety, I'm against easily accepting these behaviors as the norm, simply because "it works like that".

At the very least, I can remind how it's wrong and should not be tolerated.

Note how I did not defend the OP's story as I know close to nothing about it. Yet the assumptions based on nationality are flawed and only exist because some people want them to exist, and will refuse to see the fact that it's negative behavior.

Look at all these companies documents on respect, tolerance, diversity, equity... If these are not respected or applied it's not because these are utopic concepts, it's because some are letting hatress, ignorance and stupidity fool themselves.

Amen.
It's legally only discrimination if for example you state that someones color or sexual preference was the reason, and since you don't need a reason to not respond to a job letter or to not invite somebody for a talk or can just say that you did not like his shoes or just can say that you felt a better buzz with another candidate legally nobody is doing anything wrong.

If i would be a homosexual moslim from Syria and employers don't like such, all they have to do is to throw my letter in the bin and remain silent or just come up with whatever reason that's legal.
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  #44  
Old 17.07.2017, 16:54
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Re: How to land a job in CH

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It's the new reality of the job, you don't like it, move on.
Sad but true.
The sad part here is that some people have to move on because the rug (their job) was pulled out from under their feet, being let go.
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  #45  
Old 17.07.2017, 16:55
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Re: How to land a job in CH

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It's legally only discrimination if for example you state that someones color or sexual preference was the reason, and since you don't need a reason to not respond to a job letter or to not invite somebody for a talk or can just say that you did not like his shoes or just can say that you felt a better buzz with another candidate legally nobody is doing anything wrong.

If i would be a homosexual moslim from Syria and employers don't like such, all they have to do is to throw my letter in the bin and remain silent or just come up with whatever reason that's legal.
You are confusing illegal vs very hard to prove
Yet, that's situation when one feel overconfident, that mistakes are made. And which could be costly. So the very hard to prove can, sometimes, be possible.

Anyway, it's negative behavior, people should have better attitude with that and use their brain better.
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  #46  
Old 17.07.2017, 16:58
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Re: How to land a job in CH

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The sad part here is that some people have to move on because the rug (their job) was pulled out from under their feet, being let go.
I was never a racist, but this is becoming ridiculous
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  #47  
Old 17.07.2017, 17:01
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Re: How to land a job in CH

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The sad part here is that some people have to move on because the rug (their job) was pulled out from under their feet, being let go.
Even sadder, if I extend your story:
The sad part here is that some people have to move on because the rug (their job) was pulled out from under their feet, being let go, after having trained their replacement, wasted days in knowledge sharing. And that, without even any once of gratitude from the trainees.

Somehow I no longer feel that's "sad", I feel it's borderline exploitation (well paid exploitation). Well, I entirely agree with the concept of work contract, mutual respect, blablabla. Yet, it seems sometimes it's not only about the business and its reality, but about some abusers who express their limited power in a negative way.

Which, in a way, I understand why so many are switching from actual engineer job to a managerial job: because that's where the power is, and add some level of protection. Somehow it's like harder to move the walls than the furniture...
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  #48  
Old 17.07.2017, 17:04
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Re: How to land a job in CH

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Have you ever worked in a country where you were a native speaker?
Yes, the US, for 11 years!
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  #49  
Old 17.07.2017, 17:36
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Re: How to land a job in CH

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You don't have to be excited about it.
Unfortunately for us, IT professionals, it's a reality and we are too weak/dumb/stupid to have done something about it.
Now we are dependent on activities relocated and their consequences.

It's the new reality of the job, you don't like it, move on.
Sad but true.

And yes, I have worse issues, I agree if communication is difficult, it's pain in the bottom to deal with that. Yet it's a reality and it's required (by your management).

Now to conclude that your management should be replaced is a step which I would not officially comment on, especially as they have also have business requirements. But I would certainly reconsider helping the bastewards, as much as I did.

I mean it's clearly a difficult topic, mixing a lot of potential problems.
I think in your example the problem is not the nationality but the fact that some manager has recruited someone without the required language skills, which creates a problem.
Clearly a colleague
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  #50  
Old 17.07.2017, 21:11
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Re: How to land a job in CH

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You are confusing illegal vs very hard to prove
Yet, that's situation when one feel overconfident, that mistakes are made. And which could be costly. So the very hard to prove can, sometimes, be possible.

Anyway, it's negative behavior, people should have better attitude with that and use their brain better.
They should but they won't. We consider unintelligent behavior as an exception, a sore thumb sticking out of normalcy. It isn't. If you study heuristics or judgment, you will find almost all our decisions flawed or potentially disasterous.

Miscalibration.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunn...3Kruger_effect

And that's just involuntary. Voluntary idiocy and mismanagement is usually more obvious and easier to point out.

I really hope ZuriRo that you get back in the game, quality is really worth investing into.
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  #51  
Old 17.07.2017, 21:30
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Re: How to land a job in CH

Ha ha... Since when the interview became a honest conversation at all?

Once I had an interview in a company that I really liked and wanted to work for, so I thought it would be great to be honest as much as possible. What can I say... I don't do this mistake anymore

To make things clear - I do not encourage lying in resume or during the interview, but being too honest is not the best way either...


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Personally, I prefer people who are honest. If someone's lying on a CV and I find out about it (which is very likely, sooner or later), I will of course wonder what else they will lie about or have already lied about. I have no interest in working with dishonest opportunists and would simply never trust them with anything, which is not exactly the basis for a good working relationship.
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