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  #21  
Old 27.03.2017, 14:44
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Re: To do a 2nd degree as a mature student in CH

I'm currently doing my second degree with the OU (first one was also with the OU), as others have mentioned it is a very well respected and recognised long distance university. If things don't work out with Uni Basel, the OU also offer undergraduate Mathematics degrees .
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Old 27.03.2017, 18:27
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Re: To do a 2nd degree as a mature student in CH

http://www.beobachter.ch/arbeit-bild...och-studieren/
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Old 27.03.2017, 19:12
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Re: To do a 2nd degree as a mature student in CH

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Would such a person studying in Switzerland in one of these universities be subjected to being singled out? Especially as a foreigner?
Singled out for what?

It really isn't clear what you mean by that.

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I'm currently doing my second degree with the OU (first one was also with the OU), as others have mentioned it is a very well respected and recognised long distance university. If things don't work out with Uni Basel, the OU also offer undergraduate Mathematics degrees .
I did half of a degree with the OU and it was awful... the course material was badly written and then group work which was unfortunately essential for the grades was soul destroying because some people (who were wildly spread around geographically) were complete numpties who needed everything explaining 10 times before later going into semi-meltdown as the deadlines drew closer, and others hardly/never attended. It was really, really painful.
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  #24  
Old 28.03.2017, 11:37
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Re: To do a 2nd degree as a mature student in CH

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...

I did half of a degree with the OU and it was awful... the course material was badly written and then group work which was unfortunately essential for the grades was soul destroying because some people (who were wildly spread around geographically) were complete numpties who needed everything explaining 10 times before later going into semi-meltdown as the deadlines drew closer, and others hardly/never attended. It was really, really painful.
YMMV.

Some subjects will be harder then others to do in this fashion.

Maths is essentially solitary so I was OK.
I never did any group meeting or lesson other than 3 summer schools.
The result is clear cut too so less room for ego and opinions
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Old 28.03.2017, 11:55
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Re: To do a 2nd degree as a mature student in CH

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YMMV.

Some subjects will be harder then others to do in this fashion.

Maths is essentially solitary so I was OK.
I never did any group meeting or lesson other than 3 summer schools.
The result is clear cut too so less room for ego and opinions
Yeah, that is ideal then if no interaction with anyone else was required.
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Old 28.03.2017, 12:30
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Re: To do a 2nd degree as a mature student in CH

There were quite a few mature students (30s-60s) during my studies (Law at Uni Zurich and Lausanne).
Met Moms who went on to complete their degrees after raising their kids. Also people who have had careers in other fields and pursued a career change. And people who study part-time or take time off study due to work or family responsibilities.
A number of foreigners I met were in their 30s and 40s, already had a Bachelor's and initially wanted to do a Master's but ended up doing an entire Bachelor's or a couple courses from the Bachelor's Degree in order to fulfil the requirements to enter their desired Master's. The main challenge in finding friends and jobs during and after college seems to be overcoming the language barrier. Good luck with your studies!
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Old 28.03.2017, 12:57
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Re: To do a 2nd degree as a mature student in CH

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There were quite a few mature students (30s-60s) during my studies (Law at Uni Zurich and Lausanne).
Met Moms who went on to complete their degrees after raising their kids. Also people who have had careers in other fields and pursued a career change. And people who study part-time or take time off study due to work or family responsibilities.
A number of foreigners I met were in their 30s and 40s, already had a Bachelor's and initially wanted to do a Master's but ended up doing an entire Bachelor's or a couple courses from the Bachelor's Degree in order to fulfil the requirements to enter their desired Master's. The main challenge in finding friends and jobs during and after college seems to be overcoming the language barrier. Good luck with your studies!
Hi Lorena1,

Thank you for writing in.

I agree with you. The main challenge is about finding a job after completing studies. I do intend to complete a Dip in Deutsch Sprache so it would open up more doors.

I need to consult a local Berufsberater/in. It will help me better.

Cheers,
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Old 21.07.2017, 15:46
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Internship or Back to school

Hi everyone,

I have a situation. I moved here from Australia in 2015. I have a Masters degree and 15 years work experience in legal industry. I did a paid career counselling here and I was told that without a local Ausbilding oder Erfahrung, I may have a lesser chance of getting employed. Something to this effect.

I was advised to either seek an internship at an international firm or company appropriate to my educational and work experience. OR

To go back to Uni and do weiterbildung. My heart is saying ''Go back to school'' while my head is saying ''Ask for an internship''.

Has anyone been in this situation? If yes, what did you do? Those who have been in the market longer, what would you advise me?

Thank you all!

Cheers, AJ
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  #29  
Old 21.07.2017, 16:27
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Re: Internship or Back to school

Off the top of my head: print your CV, get to know the local market and compare with CV (incl. will you be able to find an internship with you education and at your age?), learn a local language, understand the difference between Ausbildung and Weiterbildung and areas in which each is offered (go back to school where, study what?).

Can I have my 300 chuffs now, please?
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Old 21.07.2017, 16:49
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Re: Internship or Back to school

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Off the top of my head: print your CV, get to know the local market and compare with CV (incl. will you be able to find an internship with you education and at your age?), learn a local language, understand the difference between Ausbildung and Weiterbildung and areas in which each is offered (go back to school where, study what?).

Can I have my 300 chuffs now, please?
Hi Aleydis,

Thank you for taking your time in answering.

Deutsch Niveau: B2 going to C1 (slowly....)
Age: not a problem
Since I already have a masters degree, I was advised to use it to gain an internship or to further my studies. But something has to come from Switzerland, either a job training or an education.
Study what: MA European Global Studies or BA Politikwissenschaft, Uni Basel

In fact, the career counsellor looked at Law/Jurisprudence based on my experience.

But my dilemma is, why go back to Uni if I could get an internship? or is it easy to get one without any job experience in Switzerland? She said it would be difficult. However, MNCs may consider my overseas experience.
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  #31  
Old 21.07.2017, 17:17
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Re: Internship or Back to school

Always listen to your gut. Or heart.

However, I disagree that you HAVE to have a local education to be employable. At least in such broad terms. There's about 25% non-Swiss in this country, I highly doubt that they all went through some form of Swiss education Whether this is necessary or not really very much depends on the kind of degree you have and what you were doing exactly. "Legal" can mean anything - there's certainly many non-Swiss with legal degrees working in the field here, but of course in areas where the skills and experience is transferable. If your jobs were heavily focused on Australian law, well yeah, that won't help you much here.

An internship may at times help to get a foot in the door, but in my experience, in the majority of cases, it doesn't. Also, internships are usually only accessible to students (or they should be anyway). Which you are not, so I would put the value of an "internship" in your situation into question, that is provided you would even get one, which will be very difficult.

I faintly remember we had some discussion with you before about this. Honestly: go back to uni if you want to, as long as you keep your expectations of what happens after on a realistic level. German level should be okayish, though C1 will make it easier.

Go for the MA, provided you're admitted, not the BA.

MNCs will consider overseas experience if it's relevant, for sure. Even local companies will, but the understanding for it may be less (well some would say the same is true for MNCs these days )

Last edited by Samaire13; 21.07.2017 at 17:28. Reason: Additions
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Old 21.07.2017, 17:25
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Re: Internship or Back to school

That MA entails an internship component, and the experience would probably be useful in terms of knowing which direction you want to head in
https://europa.unibas.ch/en/studies/...es/internship/

Depending on your interest, there are also PhD positions in various areas of political science (not sure about Basel)
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  #33  
Old 21.07.2017, 17:38
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Always listen to your gut. Or heart.

However, I disagree that you HAVE to have a local education to be employable. At least in such broad terms. That really very much depends on the kind of degree you have and what you were doing exactly. "Legal" can mean anything - there's certainly many non-Swiss with legal degrees working in the field here, but of course in areas where the skills and experience is transferable. If your jobs were heavily focused on Australian law, well yeah, that won't help you much here.

An internship may at times help to get a foot in the door, but in my experience, in the majority of cases, it doesn't. Also, internships are usually only accessible to students (or they should be anyway). Which you are not, so I would put the value of an "internship" in your situation into question, that is provided you would even get one, which will be very difficult.

I faintly remember we had some discussion with you before about this. Honestly: go back to uni if you want to, as long as you keep your expectations of what happens after on a realistic level. German level should be okayish, though C1 will make it easier.

Go for the MA, provided you're admitted, not the BA.

MNCs will consider overseas experience if it's relevant, for sure. Even local companies will, but the understanding for it may be less (well some would say the same is true for MNCs these days )
Hi Samaire,
Thank you very very much for being honest in your review and sharing your experience.

Yes, I have written in before about going back to uni. At that time, I haven't sought Berufsberatung. Last Wednesday, I did. I highlighted all my transferable skills on my CV but my counsellor suggested that I seek an internship at a law firm and a chemical company.

I have a masters degree in policing, intelligence and counter terrorism. I was an investigation officer/police officer.

And almost all chemical companies have a security unit (intelligence analysis, counter terror, security analysis usw.). These transferable skills could be useful to them but without any training in Switzerland, would they?

But she kept referring me Fachhochschulen to study Jurisprudence and also other law related degrees. I saw that as a hint (go back to school!) I have emailed her to seek further clarification on my position.

And you wrote that based on your experience, an internship may not lead to a job offer. And that is an important factor that I will have to take into consideration.

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That MA entails an internship component, and the experience would probably be useful in terms of knowing which direction you want to head in
https://europa.unibas.ch/en/studies/...es/internship/

Depending on your interest, there are also PhD positions in various areas of political science (not sure about Basel)
Hi Pangolin,

I have spent the whole day today researching the course. I have looked up opportunities that may come from completing this course (If I get accepted that is). I find their curriculum highly interesting.

PhD: they have got that at UZH.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 21.07.2017 at 20:31. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #34  
Old 21.07.2017, 17:49
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Re: Internship or Back to school

Do you want to move away from counter-terrorism, or is it that you aren't finding much luck here getting work in the field?

An academic route (PhD) could also be leveraged in consultant work, depends on whether you want to do that sort of thing.
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Old 21.07.2017, 17:58
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Re: Internship or Back to school

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Do you want to move away from counter-terrorism, or is it that you aren't finding much luck here getting work in the field?

An academic route (PhD) could also be leveraged in consultant work, depends on whether you want to do that sort of thing.
Since I am not Swiss, I can't work with the law enforcement agencies. So that's out. Army too. So I am left with security, chemical companies and law firms. Even banks. I have applied to all. No news.

That's why I consulted the berufsberatung.

Counter-terrorism studies are closely interlinked with MA European Global Studies. That's why I have researched it.

But your suggestion is very useful. Policy analysis is one of the interests.
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  #36  
Old 21.07.2017, 18:07
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Re: Internship or Back to school

If you did want to pursue a PhD you would want to get a feeling for who to work with (supervisor) and their publication history (and collaborations), and hypothetical thesis directions. PhD's are often on practical applications and effects of differing policies or practices, so they need not all be big-picture stuff. That is one of the benefits of coming from an applied background, in many cases, one of the selling points so to speak.
PhD positions here seem to be bound to specific grant applications, so there is a decent salary associated with them, and in the same way there may be specific goals for the grants. \

Anyway, good luck with your investigations!
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Old 21.07.2017, 18:20
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Re: Internship or Back to school

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Hi Samaire,
Thank you very very much for being honest in your review and sharing your experience.

Yes, I have written in before about going back to uni. At that time, I haven't sought Berufsberatung. Last Wednesday, I did. I highlighted all my transferable skills on my CV but my counsellor suggested that I seek an internship at a law firm and a chemical company.

I have a masters degree in policing, intelligence and counter terrorism. I was an investigation officer/police officer.

And almost all chemical companies have a security unit (intelligence analysis, counter terror, security analysis usw.). These transferable skills could be useful to them but without any training in Switzerland, would they?

But she kept referring me Fachhochschulen to study Jurisprudence and also other law related degrees. I saw that as a hint (go back to school!) I have emailed her to seek further clarification on my position.

And you wrote that based on your experience, an internship may not lead to a job offer. And that is an important factor that I will have to take into consideration.
Sorry, but that is BS advice. I feel they're not particularly familiar with that level of specialization. Neither am I, but I have some familiarity with the general legal education here, hence below my two cents:

A) certainly don't go to study "law" at a Fachhochschule, it's not a real full-blown law degree.
B) if you go back to university, you're looking at approx. 5 years of studying up to an MA (though you may skip a few courses given your previous education) plus then you're not a lawyer, but "only" have a law degree - if you want to practice as a lawyer, you're looking at a couple of years of internships/traineeships plus then the bar exam, which a large number of people fail the first time around, so it's back to studying for a year, to then try once more. So all in all - 7, 8, 9 years of studying.

You can't work with Swiss law enforcement at this point, correct. How about Interpol and similar? Would they have jobs in your area of expertise or at least a comparable one? Not sure if you need to be Swiss though. I'm taking a shot in the dark here, it just came to mind. Granted only looking at one company is unlikely to lead to success, but as a general orientation it may help a bit.

And re chemical and possibly other private companies, my initial thought is: local experience is not required.

Honestly, your skills sound transferable, the "only" problem being that you're not a national. But I don't think you absolutely need another degree.

However, if I were you, I would go back to uni - the MA sounds good, or I second the PhD idea - but keep looking for full-time jobs. If something awesome turns up, you can always defer and/or stop your degree. Public universities are excellent here and cost next to nothing, you will not take any particular risk with this approach, financial or otherwise.
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  #38  
Old 21.07.2017, 18:37
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Sorry, but that is BS advice. I feel they're not particularly familiar with that level of specialization. Neither am I, but I have some familiarity with the general legal education here, hence below my two cents:

A) certainly don't go to study "law" at a Fachhochschule, it's not a real full-blown law degree.
B) if you go back to university, you're looking at approx. 5 years of studying up to an MA (though you may skip a few courses given your previous education) plus then you're not a lawyer, but "only" have a law degree - if you want to practice as a lawyer, you're looking at a couple of years of internships/traineeships plus then the bar exam, which a large number of people fail the first time around, so it's back to studying for a year, to then try once more. So all in all - 7, 8, 9 years of studying.

You can't work with Swiss law enforcement at this point, correct. How about Interpol and similar? Would they have jobs in your area of expertise or at least a comparable one? Not sure if you need to be Swiss though. I'm taking a shot in the dark here, it just came to mind. Granted only looking at one company is unlikely to lead to success, but as a general orientation it may help a bit.

Honestly, your skills sound transferable, the "only" problem not being a national. But I don't think you absolutely need another degree.

However, if I were you, I would go back to uni - the MA sounds good, or I second the PhD idea - but keep looking for full-time jobs. If something awesome turns up, you can always defer and/or stop your degree. Public universities are excellent here and cost next to nothing, you will not take any particular risk with this approach, financial or otherwise.
Hi Samaire,

THank you for telling me about Fachhochschulen! I didn't like what I read about the law school, at Winterthur.

I have checked with Interpol. I am not eligible as I am no longer on active duty. Meaning I am no longer a police officer. Getting a job as an officer there will require a recommendation from a Swiss police force (since I live here). Most applicants tend to go over on secondments.
Plus it is based in Lyon. I am unable to relocate, unfortunately. Family!

I also have considered Swiss Federal Police. I will need French too! Bugger! Almost all related jobs I searched that are based in Bern required French.

Novartis has a security unit. I have applied and got rejected too hahaha

So here I am. I think I have decided. Samaire, I must thank you. You've articulated well and I am convinced. That's what I needed I guess. An external voice to concur my idea.

I will also keep the pursuit of PhD in my long term plan.

Thank you once again.

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If you did want to pursue a PhD you would want to get a feeling for who to work with (supervisor) and their publication history (and collaborations), and hypothetical thesis directions. PhD's are often on practical applications and effects of differing policies or practices, so they need not all be big-picture stuff. That is one of the benefits of coming from an applied background, in many cases, one of the selling points so to speak.
PhD positions here seem to be bound to specific grant applications, so there is a decent salary associated with them, and in the same way there may be specific goals for the grants. \

Anyway, good luck with your investigations!
Hi Pangolin,

Thank you for sharing your views.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 21.07.2017 at 20:43. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #39  
Old 21.07.2017, 20:26
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Re: Internship or Back to school

Have you looked at possibly working for Securitas or Protectas? They're private security firms here.
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Old 21.07.2017, 20:49
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Re: Internship or Back to school

OP, I've merged your threads so folks can see the history of what you've thought/explored before. Good luck with your decision.
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