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Old 05.09.2017, 17:35
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Job hunting with zero experience.

Hello,

I am from the Philippines currently living in Nyon, Switzerland, my parents are bot Filipino/Spanish. I arrived in Switzerland when I was 16 with a permit B, studied for 2 years and work for almost 2 years as a diamonds sorter in Geneva(the pay was minimal, work was unsatisfying and I only got the job because of a friend who worked there). I quit my job and returned to my home country to pursue an education in IT. I wasn't sure of returning in Switzerland but here I am again, and now I'm now an unemployed 24 year old..how time flies. Here are my problems.

1. After waiting for 4 months for a permit so I can start applying for jobs they gave me a Permit L along with a letter of conditions for staying in Switzerland, stating that I need to find a job in 2 months time which I think is not enough time, for me at least.

2. Getting a job without prior experience (I am a fresh grad) is hard also given that a permit L is not the flashiest thing to show to employers, I've tried applying for IT jobs, restaurant jobs and even cleaning jobs for starters but after 1 month of applying, I am starting to lose it.

3. I've tried private employment agencies but they are taking their sweet time to give me a job opportunity and I don't even know if my skills are enough to their liking.

3. I don't know if I will be given an extension in the event of not finding a job.

Its been a month now, I don't have an idea to break through this. Can some one please suggest any ways to get a break? Are there any government agencies that help the unemployed to find a decent job? I would also like to know if there is anyone with a similar experience to maybe share some insights and plan some innovative thoughts.

Cheers
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Old 05.09.2017, 17:58
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

Several comments:

1. ORP/ RAV Swiss Job Service: if you haven't already done so, you should plan to register at your local ORP office. They should be able to provide you with advice on how to look for a job in CH:

https://yellow.local.ch/en/d/Nyon/12...fO4xSy1oKJqJIg

- Anyone legally resident in Switzerland can register with ORP.
- ORP is French abbreviation for the Swiss job service. It is called RAV in the German area.
- ORP sometimes can place job-seekers into temporary positions where wages are subsidized. See p. 8 at this brochure:

http://www.treffpunkt-arbeit.ch/date...F_WEB-2013.pdf

2. Job boards: These two links list many of the job boards in Switzerland:

https://www.ag.ch/media/kanton_aarga...lenboersen.pdf

https://www.biz.erz.be.ch/biz_erz/de...m_Internet.pdf

These three job search engines are particularly good, imho:

https://www.indeed.ch/

http://jobsuchmaschine.ch/de/

https://www.jobagent.ch/ <= code required, generally available from RAV

3. For temporary, informal or personal service jobs, you might want to search tutti.ch, anibis.ch and liliput.ch, which are free ad websites. There are often ads for people wanting assistance, e.g., cleaning, helping elderly people, taking someone shopping or driving someone to work, creche positions, etc.

http://www.tutti.ch/ganze-schweiz/stellen-kurse

http://www.anibis.ch/de/job-job-ange...dvertlist.aspx

http://www.liliput.ch/stellenmarkt?q=english

Good luck to you!

Edit:
Further to newtoswitz's comment to consider looking for a traineeship, this is a list from company websites on markenjobs.ch:

https://www.markenjobs.ch/jobs/anste...inee-programme

Would suggest also search indeed.ch and job boards for trainee, intern, praktikant, etc.

Last edited by Mullhollander; 05.09.2017 at 18:35.
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Old 05.09.2017, 18:08
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

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3. I've tried private employment agencies but they are taking their sweet time to give me a job opportunity and I don't even know if my skills are enough to their liking.
Forget about them and don't waste your time on them unless they have an exclusive mandate to fill an actually existing job. Otherwise will they for you be a waste of time - these guys make money by selling people to companies. You are frankly speaking a bit harder to sell as you don't have experience... so they will always be friendly and add you to their database but never ever do something for you.

Daft question: What education in IT did you get?
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Old 05.09.2017, 18:22
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

You can add LinkedIn to that list of places to look.

And every company in Geneva with a website.

Have you physically met with the agencies? That can make a big difference how seriously they take you, vs just being a CV on their list.

You're not eligible for an apprenticeship by any chance?
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Old 05.09.2017, 18:31
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

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Have you physically met with the agencies? That can make a big difference how seriously they take you, vs just being a CV on their list.
Any agency is an extra player in a recruitment process that is already too slow for the OP. I have been headhunted before and it took months - time the OP doesn't have. Only chance to find something in a few weeks is in my opinion to not just send out CVs but to pick up the phone or even show up at some of the more flexible places like retail or gastro and simply ask if they are hiring... once a basic job is secured find something better later on.
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Old 05.09.2017, 18:35
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Several comments:

1. ORP/ RAV Swiss Job Service: if you haven't already done so, you should plan to register at your local ORP office. They should be able to provide you with advice on how to look for a job in CH:

https://yellow.local.ch/en/d/Nyon/12...fO4xSy1oKJqJIg

- Anyone legally resident in Switzerland can register with ORP.
- ORP is French abbreviation for the Swiss job service. It is called RAV in the German area.
- ORP sometimes can place job-seekers into temporary positions where wages are subsidized. See p. 8 at this brochure:

http://www.treffpunkt-arbeit.ch/date...F_WEB-2013.pdf

2. Job boards: These two links list many of the job boards in Switzerland:

https://www.ag.ch/media/kanton_aarga...lenboersen.pdf

https://www.biz.erz.be.ch/biz_erz/de...m_Internet.pdf

These three job search engines are particularly good, imho:

https://www.indeed.ch/

http://jobsuchmaschine.ch/de/

https://www.jobagent.ch/ <= code required, generally available from RAV

3. For temporary, informal or personal service jobs, you might want to search tutti.ch, anibis.ch and liliput.ch, which are free ad websites. There are often ads for people wanting assistance, e.g., cleaning, helping elderly people, taking someone shopping or driving someone to work, creche positions, etc.

http://www.tutti.ch/ganze-schweiz/stellen-kurse

http://www.anibis.ch/de/job-job-ange...dvertlist.aspx

http://www.liliput.ch/stellenmarkt?q=english

Good luck to you!

Edit:
Further to newtoswitz's comment to consider looking for a traineeship, this is a list from company websites on markenjobs.ch:

https://www.markenjobs.ch/jobs/anste...inee-programme

Would suggest also search indeed.ch and job boards for trainee, intern, praktikant, etc.
I will go to the ORP tomorrow, this comment has been the most help I received since arriving back in Switzerland. Thanks for the advice.

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Any agency is an extra player in a recruitment process that is already too slow for the OP. I have been headhunted before and it took months - time the OP doesn't have. Only chance to find something in a few weeks is in my opinion to not just send out CVs but to pick up the phone or even show up at some of the more flexible places like retail or gastro and simply ask if they are hiring... once a basic job is secured find something better later on.
I did in fact went to some of them that called me back..namely adecco and socorec who told me that they want to meet me personally. I've also sent numerous CV and motivation letter to the companies that interests me via indeed, manpower, jobsch etc. and yes it is a little slow for me due to the time constraints for finding a job. I indeed need a lot of help, thank you for your insights.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 06.09.2017 at 22:57. Reason: merging successive replies
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Old 05.09.2017, 20:04
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

You have been here long enough to know about the Swiss apprenticeship scheme, why didn't you apply for an apprenticeship when you were 18?

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89...le_de_Lausanne

Maybe you thought you could make some quick money? Well now you know, that was a silly idea.
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Old 05.09.2017, 20:12
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

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Hello,

I am from the Philippines currently living in Nyon, Switzerland, my parents are bot Filipino/Spanish. I arrived in Switzerland when I was 16 with a permit B, studied for 2 years and work for almost 2 years as a diamonds sorter in Geneva(the pay was minimal, work was unsatisfying and I only got the job because of a friend who worked there). I quit my job and returned to my home country to pursue an education in IT. I wasn't sure of returning in Switzerland but here I am again, and now I'm now an unemployed 24 year old..how time flies. Here are my problems.

1. After waiting for 4 months for a permit so I can start applying for jobs they gave me a Permit L along with a letter of conditions for staying in Switzerland, stating that I need to find a job in 2 months time which I think is not enough time, for me at least.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but why should the Swiss government give any special favours to a non-EU (or even EU) person who left the country of their own free will and now suddenly decides they want to come back after 4 years? You have no work experience... do you even speak the local language? I honestly can't see why a company would want to hire you, especially knowing you are on a 2 month L-permit. I am not saying you were not right to go and get an education, but by leaving the country for so long you should not now be surprised that the doors have almost closed for you... at least until you have more skill and experience to offer that would make a company even consider going through the trouble of hiring a non-EU person.

Last edited by Chuff; 05.09.2017 at 21:01.
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Old 05.09.2017, 20:41
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

1. You're an EU national so you wasted 4 months waiting for a permit you didn't need to have to apply for jobs.

2. One month is a miniscule time for getting a job of any kind here. The Swiss job market moves slowly.

4. Since you are an EU national providing you can support yourself financially you should be able to ask for another 3 month extension of the L permit. That used to be the rule anyway, but I'm not sure if it's changed recently. May depend on what's listed in your conditions letter.

This thread may give you some ideas of what may be possible.

https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...fications.html
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Old 05.09.2017, 20:46
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

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you should be able to ask for another 3 month extension of the L permit. That used to be the rule anyway, but I'm not sure if it's changed recently.
It is my understanding that this is still correct.
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Old 05.09.2017, 20:55
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

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1. You're an EU national so you wasted 4 months waiting for a permit you didn't need to have to apply for jobs.
If he has a Spanish passport... he said he is "from the Philippines" so it could be that (I hope not, for his sake) that he hasn't applied for a Spanish passport and only has a Filipino one, or that his parents never took advantage of it.
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Old 05.09.2017, 20:57
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

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If he has a Spanish passport... it could be that (I hope not, for his sake) that he hasn't applied for a Spanish passport and only has a Filipino one, or that his parents never took advantage of it.
According to the profile they have Spanish nationality though, so if this is correct then they are EU.
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Old 05.09.2017, 21:16
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

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It is my understanding that this is still correct.
I say I'm not sure because it used to say in the SEM's FAQs that you could get an L job seeker permit after 3 months and that it could be extended in 3 monthly periods for up to a year, but the website no longer says this and hasn't done for some time now.

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home...aq.html#Taking up residence and gainful employment

So maybe it is and maybe it no longer is.
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Old 05.09.2017, 23:04
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

I have no clue if it will work for you, but in my case the ORP helped me with a stage professionnel to try to get some experience and afterwards getting a job , ask about that possibility , they are helpful , specially knowing you have a degree... hope it works for you... but keep in mind that some take until a year or so to find a job in their field.
best of Luck
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Old 06.09.2017, 00:52
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

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Sorry if this sounds harsh, but why should the Swiss government give any special favours to a non-EU (or even EU) person who left the country of their own free will and now suddenly decides they want to come back after 4 years? You have no work experience... do you even speak the local language? I honestly can't see why a company would want to hire you, especially knowing you are on a 2 month L-permit. I am not saying you were not right to go and get an education, but by leaving the country for so long you should not now be surprised that the doors have almost closed for you... at least until you have more skill and experience to offer that would make a company even consider going through the trouble of hiring a non-EU person.
That did sound harsh lol,

1. I've said I did leave the country on my own will, I did have my own other personal reasons but studying was the main one.
2.I don't even expect them to give me a special treatment hence that is why I am here asking for advice to better my self.
3.I do also speak the local language btw.
4.And yes I am an Eu dual citizen.

Well Idk if your comment was supposedly meant to be helpful but thanks anyway.
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Old 06.09.2017, 01:12
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

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Well Idk if your comment was supposedly meant to be helpful
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Old 06.09.2017, 01:34
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Yea I phrased that badly, ik he meant well but somethings just gets to you.

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You have been here long enough to know about the Swiss apprenticeship scheme, why didn't you apply for an apprenticeship when you were 18?

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89...le_de_Lausanne

Maybe you thought you could make some quick money? Well now you know, that was a silly idea.
I did had some internships back in the day (not related to IT though), yea I was silly enough to quit my internship, grab a job and then quit the job. Young and stupid was I.
I hope to make it right this time.

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1. You're an EU national so you wasted 4 months waiting for a permit you didn't need to have to apply for jobs.

2. One month is a miniscule time for getting a job of any kind here. The Swiss job market moves slowly.

4. Since you are an EU national providing you can support yourself financially you should be able to ask for another 3 month extension of the L permit. That used to be the rule anyway, but I'm not sure if it's changed recently. May depend on what's listed in your conditions letter.

This thread may give you some ideas of what may be possible.

https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...fications.html
I did try applying for some before I received my permit but in their applications there is always a question of what permit do I have to work, back then I din't even know if what or when they will give it to me so that did slow me down a bit on the job search.
And btw I hope you are right by that extension. Thank you.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 06.09.2017 at 22:57. Reason: merging consecutive replies; please use multi-quote (to the right of quote)
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Old 06.09.2017, 08:23
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

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I say I'm not sure because it used to say in the SEM's FAQs that you could get an L job seeker permit after 3 months and that it could be extended in 3 monthly periods for up to a year
But if you make an enquiry at a town hall, they will tell you that that L permit can be renewed once for 3 months so a stay of a total of 9 months (if you count the first 3 months without a permit) would be possible. I have never heard of it being up to a year via the short/3-month renewal(s).
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Old 06.09.2017, 08:31
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

One of the problems you're facing is the fact that back in February 2014 the Swiss people voted to curb immigration from the EU. After much acrimonious debate between the EU and the Swiss government, the Swiss government decided not to go the EU quota route, but to place more emphasis on Swiss employers hiring people who already had permits to live and work here. Hence the questions about your permit status. You may also see jobs that state B/C permit holders only need apply which is another way of making sure those people are first in the hiring queue. So you can see what you're up against with only a job seeker's L permit and no work experience. It's not impossible, but it may take some time to find a job. The other is that any foreign university degree you have will not be as acceptable as one from a Swiss or European uni.

As previously said, a month is not very long when it comes to job hunting here. Even for qualified/experienced professionals it can take 6 months to a year before they find something else. Keep applying, keep sending out those CVs. Also if you go to RAV/ORP see if someone can have a look at your CV since it may not be tailored to the Swiss style. Make clear on your CV your European nationality since the other will put you under the non-EU hiring criteria if employers aren't aware that you have dual nationality. Also see if there are any apprenticeships you could undertake which would help get your foot in the employment door. Even McDonald's have them:

http://jobs.mcdonalds.ch/fr/apprentissage

There's an information evening on the 26th September - might be worth attending.

Alternatively, what about studying something IT related here as a Masters degree?
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Old 06.09.2017, 22:43
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Re: Job hunting with zero experience.

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One of the problems you're facing is the fact that back in February 2014 the Swiss people voted to curb immigration from the EU. After much acrimonious debate between the EU and the Swiss government, the Swiss government decided not to go the EU quota route, but to place more emphasis on Swiss employers hiring people who already had permits to live and work here. Hence the questions about your permit status. You may also see jobs that state B/C permit holders only need apply which is another way of making sure those people are first in the hiring queue. So you can see what you're up against with only a job seeker's L permit and no work experience. It's not impossible, but it may take some time to find a job. The other is that any foreign university degree you have will not be as acceptable as one from a Swiss or European uni.

As previously said, a month is not very long when it comes to job hunting here. Even for qualified/experienced professionals it can take 6 months to a year before they find something else. Keep applying, keep sending out those CVs. Also if you go to RAV/ORP see if someone can have a look at your CV since it may not be tailored to the Swiss style. Make clear on your CV your European nationality since the other will put you under the non-EU hiring criteria if employers aren't aware that you have dual nationality. Also see if there are any apprenticeships you could undertake which would help get your foot in the employment door. Even McDonald's have them:

http://jobs.mcdonalds.ch/fr/apprentissage

There's an information evening on the 26th September - might be worth attending.

Alternatively, what about studying something IT related here as a Masters degree?
Yes I am aware of that and I think that was the right decision for them to make (even though I will be directly affected now lol). I went to the ORP today and they went and give me a lot of documents to fill up. I will have the first interview by Monday next week, at least I have that to look forward to.

An internship at MCdonalds, I think that would be right up on my alley, I will send them my application. As for studying for a master degree here, well I know it can be quite expensive, I'll discuss it with the person that they will assign to me.

Thank you for your advice, I really appreciate it.
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