Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 12.10.2017, 22:15
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Pfäffikon SZ
Posts: 33
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
nycexpat has earned some respectnycexpat has earned some respect
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Quote:
View Post
And it was like one or two years ago I hear


@nycexpat:
is your B permit tied to your (former) employer or not?
(I may have overlooked that information and if I did, I apologize)




Agree.
I'm not sure actually, how would I check this? I don't have the physical permit in hand yet since I just did the biometrics for it earlier this week, but should get it next week. From what I understand, it's granted for a year and so I would theoretically have until the expiration of the permit to find a job?

I completely agree on the red flags, but I'm not sure I have much option in the short term. It would be different if I could get unemployment benefits while looking for a job, but I need a source of income and I can at least explore the option of working for him in one capacity or another as I look for a job.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 12.10.2017, 22:15
roegner's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 6,238
Groaned at 198 Times in 173 Posts
Thanked 6,593 Times in 3,338 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Quote:
View Post
I'm not sure actually, how would I check this? I don't have the physical permit in hand yet since I just did the biometrics for it earlier this week, but should get it next week. From what I understand, it's granted for a year and so I would theoretically have until the expiration of the permit to find a job?

I completely agree on the red flags, but I'm not sure I have much option in the short term. It would be different if I could get unemployment benefits while looking for a job, but I need a source of income and I can at least explore the option of working for him in one capacity or another as I look for a job.
If you are non EU, your permit is tied to your employer
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 12.10.2017, 22:16
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 22,257
Groaned at 1,172 Times in 917 Posts
Thanked 25,155 Times in 12,043 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Quote:
View Post
From what I understand, it's granted for a year and so I would theoretically have until the expiration of the permit to find a job?
Not if it's tied to your employer, in which case it's only valid as long as you are employed there.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 12.10.2017, 22:17
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 22,257
Groaned at 1,172 Times in 917 Posts
Thanked 25,155 Times in 12,043 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Quote:
View Post
If you are non EU, your permit is tied to your employer
Mine wasn't.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 12.10.2017, 22:23
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: GR
Posts: 148
Groaned at 8 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 44 Times in 41 Posts
wantone has no particular reputation at present
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Quote:
View Post

I completely agree on the red flags, but I'm not sure I have much option in the short term. It would be different if I could get unemployment benefits while looking for a job, but I need a source of income and I can at least explore the option of working for him in one capacity or another as I look for a job.
Usually the work permit expires if the holder is out of job, no? At least, that's the case in the US.

To get unemployment you need to work for 12 months before applying (and pay taxes etc.)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank wantone for this useful post:
  #66  
Old 12.10.2017, 22:45
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 17,894
Groaned at 301 Times in 233 Posts
Thanked 13,156 Times in 7,542 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Quote:
View Post
I'm not sure actually, how would I check this? I don't have the physical permit in hand yet since I just did the biometrics for it earlier this week, but should get it next week. From what I understand, it's granted for a year and so I would theoretically have until the expiration of the permit to find a job?

I completely agree on the red flags, but I'm not sure I have much option in the short term. It would be different if I could get unemployment benefits while looking for a job, but I need a source of income and I can at least explore the option of working for him in one capacity or another as I look for a job.
It will say on the back of it when you get it. If it is tied to that employer then no you can't work for anyone else unless/until a new permit is approved.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #67  
Old 12.10.2017, 22:46
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Pfäffikon SZ
Posts: 33
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
nycexpat has earned some respectnycexpat has earned some respect
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Quote:
View Post
It will say on the back of it when you get it. If it is tied to that employer then no you can't work for anyone else unless/until a new permit is approved.
Thanks, I will check as soon as I have it. I think there are two different questions here: whether I have to leave the country and whether I can work for someone else. I'm more concerned about the former since this would make it quite difficult to find a job in the first place.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 12.10.2017, 22:56
Loz1983's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,762
Groaned at 499 Times in 305 Posts
Thanked 7,915 Times in 3,106 Posts
Loz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond reputeLoz1983 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Shame you want to stick around in Switzerland, if you were headed off again you could tell him to go whistle for his 20k. A contract's a contract, however I don't get how you can pay someone a lump sum to relocate, fire them after a few weeks and then reasonably expect that money back after they've already spent it on relocating. What's worse is that money will most likely be tax deductible for him anyhow.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Loz1983 for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 12.10.2017, 23:02
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 17,894
Groaned at 301 Times in 233 Posts
Thanked 13,156 Times in 7,542 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Quote:
View Post
Thanks, I will check as soon as I have it. I think there are two different questions here: whether I have to leave the country and whether I can work for someone else. I'm more concerned about the former since this would make it quite difficult to find a job in the first place.
As said if the permit is tied to the employer and you don't work for him then you no longer have a valid permit so aren't a resident here any more. However you can be here as a tourist for up to 90 days if you can afford to stay here that long. The problem you have is that you entered on a Type D visa which is a long stay one so trying to work out when those 90 days as a tourist starts could be awkward. Border control may consider it from the day you entered regardless so it could be less than the 90 day max.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #70  
Old 12.10.2017, 23:06
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,841
Groaned at 56 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 2,712 Times in 1,485 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

If all else fails, you can skip over the border to Germany.
Assuming you have a US passport, living in Germany doesn't really require any special permits or application processes. It's also much, much cheaper.
You also don't need to have a job lined up.
Hence the number of American "artists" in Berlin.

You can still apply for Swiss jobs from Germany - but the employer would have to go through the same motions as if you were in the US. Just the airfare for the interview is cheaper and it's not a transatlantic flight ;-)

All this sounds completely insane.
Before my employer (of sixty-ish) people would ever go through all the motions and hire an American without an existing permit, he'd arrange for at least a "Schnupper-Woche" to see if (s)he would actually be a good fit.

BTW: the unwillingness of employers to not do any sort of training is a real problem and commonplace here.
Smaller firms especially usually have no idea how to and no time to do any sort organized of on-the-job training.
And then they complain that they can't find people.
(Who work for little money)
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #71  
Old 12.10.2017, 23:09
Doctor Memory's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Lugano, TI
Posts: 75
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 119 Times in 33 Posts
Doctor Memory has earned the respect of manyDoctor Memory has earned the respect of manyDoctor Memory has earned the respect of many
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Do you have a noncompete clause? If not, find out who his best competitor is and get a job with them. Drive him out of business in a "revenge is best served cold" kind of way. :-)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Doctor Memory for this useful post:
  #72  
Old 13.10.2017, 00:02
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Basel
Posts: 213
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 137 Times in 52 Posts
Swisstobe is considered knowledgeableSwisstobe is considered knowledgeableSwisstobe is considered knowledgeable
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Quote:
View Post
A few things:
1) you won't get financial help from RAV. You need to have worked at least 12 months out of the previous 24 months in Switzerland or, under certain circumstances, EU countries to be elligble.
Does this apply for those on a C permit - here by marriage. Thanks!

So very sorry OP, wishing you all the best.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 13.10.2017, 00:04
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 3,490
Groaned at 83 Times in 68 Posts
Thanked 5,445 Times in 2,094 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Quote:
View Post
If you are non EU, your permit is tied to your employer
Not necessary. Almost always, but I know quite a few non-EUs whose B is not tied. It is likely in OP's case, but doesn't have to be.

As said theoretically you can't stay if the permit is tied and uou lose your job, but as said in my first comment in the thread, you may be able to stay until the year is up after which the permit will just not be extended. Practically speaking, how are they going to know unless you tell them or register with RAV (not that I'm recommending anything illegal, hence the advice to talk with the authorities).

As for re-hire somewhere else and whether they have to go through the whole process again - depends on whether the permit is tied or not. I will try to reach a colleague tomorrow who may know more.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #74  
Old 13.10.2017, 15:40
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Pfäffikon SZ
Posts: 33
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
nycexpat has earned some respectnycexpat has earned some respect
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

I truly appreciate everyone's input and comments, thank you!

I put together a proposal for the man, cringing the entire time knowing I am pandering to a man without a shred of compassion or empathy and that he holds my financial future in his hands. This morning we met to discuss, and he spent the better part of a half hour telling me how irrelevant half the things I proposed were and that he's doing me a huge favor just by meeting with me and not being at other meetings. Something clicked for me, and I realized that I would rather be homeless without a dime to my name than ever work with him, in any capacity, and subject myself to his god complex and emotional abuse.

He actually asked me to prove and argument that I would not leave in 2 months if I got a better offer, if he were to give me a second chance and somehow let me help him as a glorified assistant. Of course without any commitment or reassurance on his part of not firing me again tomorrow. Insane.

Time to find a new job fast, with a less toxic work environment. If anyone may know of a company in need of someone with a top technical + business education, and with a strategy, biz dev, VC skillset in the Zurich area (e.g., fund, big corporation, startup), please PM me!
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank nycexpat for this useful post:
  #75  
Old 13.10.2017, 16:12
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Zurich East
Posts: 517
Groaned at 40 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 595 Times in 297 Posts
YuropFlyer has an excellent reputationYuropFlyer has an excellent reputationYuropFlyer has an excellent reputationYuropFlyer has an excellent reputation
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Hows your German?
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 13.10.2017, 16:12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Pfäffikon SZ
Posts: 33
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
nycexpat has earned some respectnycexpat has earned some respect
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Quote:
View Post
If all else fails, you can skip over the border to Germany.
Assuming you have a US passport, living in Germany doesn't really require any special permits or application processes. It's also much, much cheaper.
You also don't need to have a job lined up.
Hence the number of American "artists" in Berlin.

You can still apply for Swiss jobs from Germany - but the employer would have to go through the same motions as if you were in the US. Just the airfare for the interview is cheaper and it's not a transatlantic flight ;-)

All this sounds completely insane.
Before my employer (of sixty-ish) people would ever go through all the motions and hire an American without an existing permit, he'd arrange for at least a "Schnupper-Woche" to see if (s)he would actually be a good fit.

BTW: the unwillingness of employers to not do any sort of training is a real problem and commonplace here.
Smaller firms especially usually have no idea how to and no time to do any sort organized of on-the-job training.
And then they complain that they can't find people.
(Who work for little money)
I wasn't really even looking for organized training. I learn quickly and after seeing the baseline or expectation of a product once, I can learn it on my own and deliver. In this case, he expected me to read his mind on what he wants and was annoyed that I asked for guidance on his expectations.

In writing my proposal I realized that the skills I have are tailored to a different job than what he wants me to do, and he doesn't need the things I can do. Could I learn everything I needed to in 2-3 months? Absolutely. Since that's the probation period, I thought that I would have that long. I guess not.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 13.10.2017, 16:13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Pfäffikon SZ
Posts: 33
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
nycexpat has earned some respectnycexpat has earned some respect
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Quote:
View Post
Hows your German?
Very basic but I have a history of learning languages (am bi-lingual now at a native speaker level). Plan to intensively focus on learning what I can now in parallel with job searching.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 13.10.2017, 16:27
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Zürich
Posts: 16
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 19 Times in 8 Posts
jazh has earned some respectjazh has earned some respect
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

i recommend spending the 300 or so ChF for a quick consult with a lawer. Both contracts and firing people are complicated and it will be very useful to have someone advocate for you. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the stipulation in your contact that you have to return the relocation fee is binding, but only a lawyer specializing in employment law can really help you. It will be expensive, but the 'relatively small' investment compared with 20,000 ChF will be far worth it to get some certainty esp. with such a large consequence.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank jazh for this useful post:
  #79  
Old 13.10.2017, 17:48
fduvall's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Used to be Zurich
Posts: 1,426
Groaned at 25 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 1,200 Times in 577 Posts
fduvall has a reputation beyond reputefduvall has a reputation beyond reputefduvall has a reputation beyond reputefduvall has a reputation beyond reputefduvall has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

If I were to guess, probably was the only int'l option OP had and it sounded like fun. Many Americans have not traveled to Europe, let alone lived/worked there. They certainly don't have much knowledge of how contracts are handled. In fact, in the USA we are sometimes less worried about contractual details because it is very easy (and cheap) to bring a lawsuit against someone and the legality of the contract may/will be determined there.

It surprised me more than once, after I arrived in CH (and Europe in general), how focused on "the contract" everyone was...

fduvall

Quote:
View Post
Can I just ask why, if you are so highly qualified, that you accepted a job with a small family business instead of going for a large and reputable company? Small family businesses are often the absolute worst and most unprofessional environments, not to mention the most unstable, you can be in. Moving from the USA to join that kind of "freestyle" environment seems like a huge risk unless you were desperate.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 13.10.2017, 18:27
ZuriRollt's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,259
Groaned at 90 Times in 66 Posts
Thanked 3,785 Times in 1,663 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need Help! Terminated after moving to CH

Quote:
View Post
i recommend spending the 300 or so ChF for a quick consult with a lawer. Both contracts and firing people are complicated and it will be very useful to have someone advocate for you. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the stipulation in your contact that you have to return the relocation fee is binding, but only a lawyer specializing in employment law can really help you. It will be expensive, but the 'relatively small' investment compared with 20,000 ChF will be far worth it to get some certainty esp. with such a large consequence.
Employment law is very clear here in CH.

One can be terminated for any reason which does not contradict standard employment law based on contractual agreements, gender, racism etc. There are different laws applicable to mass layoffs.

But in this case the OPs contract was terminated within a standard probation period, as the employer rightly or wrongly didn't find the performance up to expectations. Within that contract was a clause stating that relocation costs needed to be reimbursed within these terms. The only point of recourse is discussion with the former employer, so that repayment terms of the relocation can be discussed.

But either the employer is a complete asxhole, and / or something took place in-between that hasn't been disclosed.

Although the whole thing with this employer is questionable - and I have full empathy with the OP - he's acting within his rights and I would sincerely doubt that there's anything to be achieved with an employment lawyer, except for clarification of the same. But OP, this might assist your closure on the subject, if you can afford the necessary financial outlay.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank ZuriRollt for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Timing of school start after moving to CH Sudafed Education 7 09.10.2017 09:01
Temporary insurance for foreign car after moving to CH Jochem Transportation/driving 13 11.08.2016 11:33
First family overnight trip after moving to CH? hemmie Travel/day trips/free time 16 02.06.2015 00:36
Help! A student with a terminated B Permit. Need to leave Switzerland!!! sham924 Permits/visas/government 1 05.01.2014 10:57
please i need a help or advice [possible come back to CH after a divorce] sayedtab Permits/visas/government 4 27.09.2011 17:04


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0