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Old 14.11.2017, 08:55
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Health Insurance but only for 60 days

Hi,

Apologies if I've posted a question that's been asked before, I did search but I couldn't find anything that helps. It's my first post here so apologies if I missed something.

I started a new contract but unfortunately only 3.5 weeks into the new contract I fell ill. It's required and will continue to require an extended recovery period of at least six months. Not the best of situations.

The payroll company has been a complete disaster. They didn't make payment at the end of the month which I escalated and they eventually made a part payment over a week late. The payment was short as they had not processed the Dr's letters with the insurance company until I raised it.

I'm now around 6 weeks behind in payment whilst they process the insurance claim which is starting to cause some financial concerns. I've also just heard from them that they will only insure me for 60 calendar days as I was a new starter. My contract is due to expire at the end of the year, I'm not expecting a renewal for obvious reasons.

Naturally I'm frustrated at the payroll company for not processing the letters but there's nothing I can do as they will not pay out without insurance. It's appalling that they paid me late and didn't process anything until I told them but that cannot be changed. I was shocked to hear 8 weeks into my time off that they will not insure me for mroe than 60 days. I understood that health insurance was for 2 years.

My questions are, is it appropriate to only offer 60 days of cover and if so, what do I do at the end of the 60 days?

Thanks.
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Old 14.11.2017, 10:36
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Re: Health Insurance but only for 60 days

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry, I've read your post twice and I don't really understand your question. Not sure what the "payroll company" has to do with your health insurance, unless you mean they paid you late which means you didn't pay your premiums on time?

I'm caffeine free this week so maybe that's the problem.
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Old 14.11.2017, 10:41
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Re: Health Insurance but only for 60 days

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I'm caffeine free this week so maybe that's the problem.
Why caffeine free voluntarily ?

Didn´t get this either. OP, you have the insurance yourself and it should not be dependant on any payroll company.
Do you maybe mean that you only will be paid for 60 days and then some insurance has to kick in (Krankentagegeld)?
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Old 14.11.2017, 10:47
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Re: Health Insurance but only for 60 days

What do you mean you thought "health insurance was for two years" and "they are not paying you"?

I don't understand which bills and documents you are talking about. Late payments don't really affect the health (!) insurance's obligation to reimburse you (to an extent). No idea how the payroll company should come into this in any way - this is your personal responsibility, no one else's. Health insurance is also never limited in time, it is mandatory to have it as long as you live in Switzerland and only when you leave can you terminate it.

It appears you're confusing two aspects:
1) the obligation to have health insurance that pays for the cost that occurs directly because of your illness (i.e. meds, operations, doctor's visits, whatever else may be required - exact coverage depends on the illness
2) the obligation from another insurance to continue paying your salary in case you fall sick. This is a DIFFERENT insurance that your employer has and has nothing to do with health insurance. This depends on tenure and where you are located. There are different "Skalen", for example if you work in Zurich, the continuation of salary payment in your first year of employment is 3 weeks. So you actually got very lucky if you get 60 days.
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Old 14.11.2017, 10:53
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Re: Health Insurance but only for 60 days

Hi,

It's a terminology issue on my account. I'm referring to Sickness insurance which is supplied by the employer, in this case the payroll agent.
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Old 14.11.2017, 10:59
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Re: Health Insurance but only for 60 days

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Hi,

It's a terminology issue on my account. I'm referring to Sickness insurance which is supplied by the employer, in this case the payroll agent.
Then see 2) above.

Once the 3 weeks - or in your case 60 days - are up, unfortunately, it's a case of "figure it out yourself".

There MAY be an option to get a private additional insurance to cover you for a few more months, but since you are already sick, it's likely too late for that.

Are you new to Switzerland as in just moved?

Btw I still don't understand what delayed payments you are referring to. You don't need to sign up for this particular insurance, nor do you need to make payments yourself
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Old 14.11.2017, 11:09
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Re: Health Insurance but only for 60 days

HI,

The late payment was for the salary that the payroll company had to pay me, they never paid me for the days owed until I raised it with them.

I've been here over three years so I'm going to talk to the RAV to see what my options are there albeit to qualify I understand that you have to be available for work and not sick. They should fill in my blanks there for me.

I guess my frustration is that the payroll company paid me late for the days owed and after nearly seven weeks off sick they're only just processing the insurance claim and they've opted to tell me now that its term-limited.

I appreciate that some might say 'read the contract' however I'm in and out of hospital and trying to adjust to what is a life-changing illness and possibly critical. Hence why I've reached out to try and leverage the knowledge of others.
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Old 14.11.2017, 11:17
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Re: Health Insurance but only for 60 days

Are you perhaps mixing up different things? Like, health insurance, salary payments and insurance thereof such as "Krankentaggeld"? Is that perhaps why you mention RAV?
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Old 14.11.2017, 11:20
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Re: Health Insurance but only for 60 days

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I've been here over three years so I'm going to talk to the RAV to see what my options are there albeit to qualify I understand that you have to be available for work and not sick. They should fill in my blanks there for me.
Yes, that would have been my suggestion as well. But it is correct, to get paid through unemployment insurance, you must normally be available and able to work.

Btw I did some digging and there's not even an obligation to pay you at all in the first three months of employment. This isn't much help, but just saying that it could have even been worse. Changing employers is always indeed a risk, from this particular perspective anyway, as the "clock" for payments resets even if you've worked in the country for a long-time. That's because it's not a public/social insurance, but employer-dependent. You might want to ask your Kranketaggeldversicherung though if there's an option to extend at own minor cost - limited hope on that one, but can't hurt to try.

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I guess my frustration is that the payroll company paid me late for the days owed and after nearly seven weeks off sick they're only just processing the insurance claim and they've opted to tell me now that its term-limited.
Fair enough, the frustration is understandable. However, their failure to pay your salary on time has nothing to do with the insurance either. And processing and telling you certain things earlier wouldn't have changed anything.

Btw have they - as in employer - terminated your work contract (yet)?

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I appreciate that some might say 'read the contract'
Nobody said or even hinted at anything like that though.
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Old 14.11.2017, 11:21
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Re: Health Insurance but only for 60 days

Hi,

I don't believe I am. If you ignore the salary issue my question is about the sick insurance. The rest was just some background. The RAV is because my contract is ending and they can advise on the whole picture.
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Old 14.11.2017, 13:03
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Re: Health Insurance but only for 60 days

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Hi,

I don't believe I am. If you ignore the salary issue my question is about the sick insurance. The rest was just some background. The RAV is because my contract is ending and they can advise on the whole picture.
If your ill, RAV won't pay you & your not available to work.
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Old 14.11.2017, 13:57
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Re: Health Insurance but only for 60 days

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Hi,

I don't believe I am. If you ignore the salary issue my question is about the sick insurance.
Sick pay insurance? The insurance which covers your wage in case you get ill?

It is normal that such insurances have limited pay periods at the beginning of a new contract.
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Old 14.11.2017, 14:57
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Re: Health Insurance but only for 60 days

Welcome to EF and sorry about your illness.

I believe you are referring to short-term disability insurance (Krankentaggeldversicherung). Beobachter, a Swiss consumer magazine, notes this:

"Case 1: Terminated and unemployed

Case study: Ms. Müller loses her job and does not immediately find a new one.

Short-term disability insurance: Swiss employment law obliges the employer to continue to pay the salary for a certain period of time to an employee who can not work due to illness. The employer can voluntarily offer a short-term disability insurance for this as well. In many cases, a union employment contract foresees such a mandatory one.

If Ms Müller's employer has taken out such insurance, she can continue to have it as a private person after job loss. A transfer from the employer to the former employee is possible without a medical examination.

If Ms Müller's company does not offer a short-term disability insurance, she will receive compensation from the unemployment insurance in the event of illness, but only for 30 days."

https://www.beobachter.ch/arbeit/arb...-sie-geschutzt

Comment: don't sign anything with the payroll service (your legal employer) that would not allow you to continue with the short-term disability.

Also, the insurance company might try to transfer you to the governmental IV (invalidity insurance), but this would be later, if it happens.

This RAV St Gallen brochure provides information on RAV benefits and duties, including insurance (English). It uses the term "daily benefits insurance" for short-term disability insurance (Krankentaggeldversicherung):

https://www.awa.sg.ch/home/arbeitslo...6_englisch.pdf


Good luck to you!
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Old 14.11.2017, 15:23
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Re: Health Insurance but only for 60 days

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she can continue to have it as a private person after job loss.
But she didn't lose her job. Or at least we don't know - hence the question earlier. The example with Frau Müller is a different situation and refers to what happens if you fall sick while unemployed and how you should take precautions as soon as you lose your job without having a new one yet. OP's problem is that she was employed for only three weeks, hence has now next to no coverage and security and no one to cover her salary.

Even if OP's contract were terminated tomorrow, this wouldn't solve her actual problem - i.e. her employer's Krankentaggeldversicherung is unlikely to continue to pay for her even if she pays the monthly contributions herself somehow (which would be a bit strange in itself). As said she can ask - but it's unlikely. Why would any insurance take her on now that she has already fallen sick, only to have to cover her salary for who-knows-how-long after she's only contributed through her employer for three weeks? I know this sounds bad, but that's cause it is. I've been doing some digging though to find out if any insurance might take her under these circumstances, particularly as apparently, it's not a cold that will be over in a few days. My understanding is she won't be able to return to work any time soon.

IV/disability is actually not as far in the future as you may think - particularly in case of long-term illnesses, they inquire indeed quite quickly. It looks as if this is a longer-term illness, so at best she'll get couple of months somehow, through RAV or whatever, after that, there's not many alternatives but IV and/or social welfare. Unless she has significant savings.

Obviously I have incomplete information, but I'm sorry to say that to me, this really looks like a pretty dire situation and other than speaking to every possible insurance and RAV (whose hands are likely tied too), I'd look for alternative help outside the state/insurance/social system fairly quickly.
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Old 14.11.2017, 19:41
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Re: Health Insurance but only for 60 days

Hi,

I don't know if this will help, partly because your profile is very limited so I am lacking some key information, like whether you are EU or non-EU.

But this was my story:

I moved to Switzerland to start work in the July. Filled out forms for sick pay insurance. Got a letter back stating that they would not cover mental health issues as it was a pre-existing condition. Was a little concerned, but there was nothing I could do about it...

I started to struggle in the October. Fatigue, mainly. Went to the doctor, got told I was anaemic and was signed off. My employers tried to use the sick pay insurance. That was when I discovered that I was suppose to reply to that letter agreeing to their exclusion. I hadn't, so the policy had been cancelled. My employers only paid me for a few weeks absence.

My health got worse, the doctors couldn't find anything wrong physically, but the psychiatrist I was seeing said the depression had come back. So I was off work, not being paid, and not sure when I would be able to get back to work. I was also under pressure to get well enough to attend training in February which was one of the conditions for me keeping my role.

I ended up in psychiatric hospital. This was in the December. By February I was still in hospital, and had lost my job. I couldn't go to RAV, but because I was an EU citizen I could apply for social aid, which I did (with the help of social workers at the hospital).

Social aid paid my rent, and gave me a basic income. I was able to access this as my savings were below a certain level - sorry, I can't remember what that was.

I stayed on social aid, of one form or another, for the next 7 years, until eventually I had to leave Switzerland because I was given the strong indication that my permit wouldn't be renewed.

I did go through the IV process. It took a long time. I had to go through a year of work placements to assess by capability to work. This was extended over several years as I kept on having relapses which forced me to stop the placement. Eventually, they made a decision that I was not capable of working. This should have led to a disability pension. However, I was not entitled to a disability pension because I had not paid enough into the system before I fell ill. In some cases an arrangement can be worked out with an EU country to count payments made there (because of bilateral agreements), but this was not possible in my case either - sorry, I can't remember the details why. This was another reason why I had to leave Switzerland.

I don't know if any of this is helpful to you, because I don't know enough about your situation. But it does show that there may be financial support available, even if you can't get your sickness insurance payments.

I wish you all the best in resolving this situation, and in your recovery.
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