Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 29.01.2018, 14:06
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,029
Groaned at 249 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 2,158 Times in 997 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

Quote:
View Post
I feel like we are going in circles .... Everyone taking a piece of the facts and making an argument about it

I know that many people also have PhD, yet this high supply would never bring the price down to the level you are talking about

Moreover, not all consultancy work is the same

Beyond, having consultants from "the relevant" background at your consultancy gives a more prestigious image to the company in front of the clients. Why would a pharmacist work for 4500 after doing MSc and PhD, while he can work for 7000 or more with pharmacy education only?!
You dont believe in Supply and Demand? I have a bridge to sell you...

You seem to have an inflated opinion of the value of a PhD. Yes, there was a time when those three letters made an important distinction and pharma companies were especially interested in hiring those.

But these days, there are so many people with Phds, and it is relatively easier to get one, so the value has gone down. Truth be told, academic qualifications, beyond a certain point, become irrelevant.

Not what you were told when you applied for your PhD, im sure.

Fact is, people with a BSc or MSc but who have 4-5 years of experience are, very often, a much more worthy investment. They know how the corporate world works, and what they need to do, certainly better then those with PhDs. They come with corporate project management skills. They understand the importance of shareholders. They understand why certain areas of research are lucrative while others arent. They can justify projects and do good science that reflects well on the company, rather then just being good science. They also come with lower wage expectations (as you prove yourself).

Your PhD makes you reasonably good at one, very minute, very specific part of the world, but a greenhorn rookie at the rest. Somebody who has a BSc but is 5 years younger? well, we can train that person the right way. Not the PhD way, but our way. In 5 years, they will be 5 years ahead of a 5-year-older PhD graduate.

Proof? Most professionals who have a PhD dont even use the 'Dr.' title or put the letters after their name. They're just not worth that much anymore, and in some cases are a drawback.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 29.01.2018, 14:12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 65
Groaned at 28 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
HomoSapiens is considered a nuisanceHomoSapiens is considered a nuisanceHomoSapiens is considered a nuisance
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

Again, I am talking about the relevance of the education, not the degree itself.

Anyway, the thread is not meant to discuss the numbers. You mentioned the numbers you think are right, thanks and we go on with our lives.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 29.01.2018, 14:17
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,029
Groaned at 249 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 2,158 Times in 997 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

Long story short: You're just not that valuable.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank J2488 for this useful post:
This user groans at J2488 for this post:
  #84  
Old 29.01.2018, 14:18
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,029
Groaned at 249 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 2,158 Times in 997 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

Quote:
View Post
Again, I am talking about the relevance of the education, not the degree itself.

Anyway, the thread is not meant to discuss the numbers. You mentioned the numbers you think are right, thanks and we go on with our lives.
You literally asked for numbers.

Last edited by Ace1; 29.01.2018 at 14:30. Reason: Removing personal attack.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank J2488 for this useful post:
This user groans at J2488 for this post:
  #85  
Old 29.01.2018, 14:38
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 65
Groaned at 28 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
HomoSapiens is considered a nuisanceHomoSapiens is considered a nuisanceHomoSapiens is considered a nuisance
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

Quote:
View Post
Long story short: You're just not that valuable.
And you have a lot of problems
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 29.01.2018, 14:38
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,029
Groaned at 249 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 2,158 Times in 997 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

Just to save you some embarrassment when you are eventually asked about your prior experience in an interview:

Academic studies, including a PhD, are not considered 'experience'. At best, they are training.

If you're about to complete your PhD, you have no 'experience'. Dont embarrass yourself by talking about your PhD when they want to know about your previous experience.

You're better off doing the opposite, actually, and saying 'I completed my PhD but i dont consider that professional experience'. At least then they know you're grounded, pragmatic, and ready to learn.

That little tidbit of advice, i offer free of charge. Not even a 6000Fr consultancy fee.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at J2488 for this post:
  #87  
Old 29.01.2018, 14:40
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 65
Groaned at 28 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
HomoSapiens is considered a nuisanceHomoSapiens is considered a nuisanceHomoSapiens is considered a nuisance
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

Quote:
View Post

That little tidbit of advice, i offer free of charge. Not even a 6000Fr consultancy fee.
Better keep it to yourself as you were not asked for it and it is worth nothing
Reply With Quote
This user groans at HomoSapiens for this post:
  #88  
Old 29.01.2018, 15:00
Chemmie's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,031
Groaned at 31 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 4,817 Times in 2,181 Posts
Chemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond reputeChemmie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

Also do note, even if you have experience, many companies here (obviously not all), will not consider it experience, if it came before your final education conclusion.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 29.01.2018, 16:32
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 546
Groaned at 87 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 540 Times in 258 Posts
Kedi has earned the respect of manyKedi has earned the respect of manyKedi has earned the respect of many
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

HomoSapiens, I would recommend you to not waste more of your time on this thread. The bullies have ganged up on you. They undervalue your education and they have analysed your character as abrasive and your behaviour as petulant after working you up with their negative comments. This happens to a lot of people who come here with similar questions. Keep in mind that most of the people who are writing all those long answers have nothing better to do and are probably in boring jobs to which they cling on for dear life because they have near zero chance of finding employment elsewhere.

Don't let them get to you. They are attacking you ad hominem.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Kedi for this useful post:
  #90  
Old 29.01.2018, 17:01
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 65
Groaned at 28 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
HomoSapiens is considered a nuisanceHomoSapiens is considered a nuisanceHomoSapiens is considered a nuisance
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

Quote:
View Post
HomoSapiens, I would recommend you to not waste more of your time on this thread. The bullies have ganged up on you. They undervalue your education and they have analysed your character as abrasive and your behaviour as petulant after working you up with their negative comments. This happens to a lot of people who come here with similar questions. Keep in mind that most of the people who are writing all those long answers have nothing better to do and are probably in boring jobs to which they cling on for dear life because they have near zero chance of finding employment elsewhere.

Don't let them get to you. They are attacking you ad hominem.
Exactly my thoughts Thanks Kedi!
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 29.01.2018, 22:30
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,029
Groaned at 249 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 2,158 Times in 997 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

Quote:
View Post
HomoSapiens, I would recommend you to not waste more of your time on this thread. The bullies have ganged up on you. They undervalue your education and they have analysed your character as abrasive and your behaviour as petulant after working you up with their negative comments. This happens to a lot of people who come here with similar questions. Keep in mind that most of the people who are writing all those long answers have nothing better to do and are probably in boring jobs to which they cling on for dear life because they have near zero chance of finding employment elsewhere.

Don't let them get to you. They are attacking you ad hominem.
Undervalue? No my dear. The fact is the value if something is related to the supply of it.

Prior to the economic crash there were far more opportunities for people like the OP. But since then, the job market is saturated with PhD holders. Time was, we would get maybe 40 serious applicants for a role requiring a PhD. Now, 100 is surpassed in a couple of days. Instead of competing with just 'local' job hunters, you're now competing with people across the world. Around 25% of the serious applicants are from the far east or the US. This is the new reality.

Many people who got laid off in the crisis ending up setting up consultancies, sometimes with partners who count hundreds of years of experience across them. And not for silly money either; the greater competition meant companies like mine could employ consultants for very low rates.

This isnt bullying - this is real life. If OP considers this bullying, then I'm sorry, but he is not ready for the dog-eat-dog world of consulting.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank J2488 for this useful post:
This user groans at J2488 for this post:
  #92  
Old 29.01.2018, 22:38
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 65
Groaned at 28 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
HomoSapiens is considered a nuisanceHomoSapiens is considered a nuisanceHomoSapiens is considered a nuisance
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

Quote:
View Post
Undervalue? No my dear. The fact is the value if something is related to the supply of it.

Prior to the economic crash there were far more opportunities for people like the OP. But since then, the job market is saturated with PhD holders. Time was, we would get maybe 40 serious applicants for a role requiring a PhD. Now, 100 is surpassed in a couple of days. Instead of competing with just 'local' job hunters, you're now competing with people across the world. Around 25% of the serious applicants are from the far east or the US. This is the new reality.

Many people who got laid off in the crisis ending up setting up consultancies, sometimes with partners who count hundreds of years of experience across them. And not for silly money either; the greater competition meant companies like mine could employ consultants for very low rates.

This isnt bullying - this is real life. If OP considers this bullying, then I'm sorry, but he is not ready for the dog-eat-dog world of consulting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1eHKf-dMwo
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 29.01.2018, 22:57
MusicChick's Avatar
modified and reprogrammed
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 12,869
Groaned at 181 Times in 145 Posts
Thanked 15,207 Times in 7,699 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

You got a lot of info (some certainly unwanted, lol) on local demand and form that is requested, use it to adjust your supply situation. And bonne chance, I like stubborn folks. I mean, consistent folks.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at MusicChick for this post:
  #94  
Old 29.01.2018, 23:08
MusicChick's Avatar
modified and reprogrammed
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 12,869
Groaned at 181 Times in 145 Posts
Thanked 15,207 Times in 7,699 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

He groaned me???

Lol. Cmon. I was giving you thumb ups!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #95  
Old 29.01.2018, 23:09
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 65
Groaned at 28 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
HomoSapiens is considered a nuisanceHomoSapiens is considered a nuisanceHomoSapiens is considered a nuisance
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

Quote:
View Post
He groaned me???

Lol. Cmon. I was giving you thumb ups!
Just being consistently stubborn
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 29.01.2018, 23:14
MusicChick's Avatar
modified and reprogrammed
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 12,869
Groaned at 181 Times in 145 Posts
Thanked 15,207 Times in 7,699 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

Quote:
View Post
Just being consistently stubborn
Watch out, or I will have to ban you for groan fest. To be consistent, you see..
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 29.01.2018, 23:17
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 65
Groaned at 28 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
HomoSapiens is considered a nuisanceHomoSapiens is considered a nuisanceHomoSapiens is considered a nuisance
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

Quote:
View Post
Watch out, or I will have to ban you for groan fest. To be consistent, you see..
One word: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fvTxv46ano
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 29.01.2018, 23:33
MusicChick's Avatar
modified and reprogrammed
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 12,869
Groaned at 181 Times in 145 Posts
Thanked 15,207 Times in 7,699 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

You have an interesting haircut. Kreuzberg was full of that hipster weirdness when I lived there.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 12.07.2019, 10:10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Basel
Posts: 382
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 194 Times in 114 Posts
dbucar is considered knowledgeabledbucar is considered knowledgeabledbucar is considered knowledgeable
Re: Salary for health economics/market access consultant - pharmacist with a PhD

Quote:
View Post
You have an interesting haircut. Kreuzberg was full of that hipster weirdness when I lived there.
I don't know why, until today, I always thought your avatar was some version of Grinch (also, santa hat lol) holding a guitar.
Now I finally see the real pic.

/irrelevancedone
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How difficult it is to get apartment in Zurich, with PhD salary? Leonidas05 Housing in general 18 03.06.2013 12:53
Pharmacist salary?? Vasel Employment 9 05.09.2012 23:25
Swiss bankers call for better market access The Local Swiss news via The Local 0 12.01.2012 15:39
Salary of a .NET consultant Fawad Employment 6 14.08.2011 21:15


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0