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  #41  
Old 20.05.2018, 20:53
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

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Any job is regarded by the RAV as better than none. Even if it is non-sensical, given your training and experience.
Mine started complaining when I applied even to IKEA - I mean, it actually has something to do with my field, somehow, but wasn't in order with her ideas of what I should be doing.

Not sure. I always felt the RAV is a little weird feudal system populated with strange mini-lords that like to make us, peasants, go through a living hell before they grant us enough money to survive one more day.

I should lay off the Monty Python movies...
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  #42  
Old 20.05.2018, 21:20
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

Success or no success can often depend on the advisor you get.
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Mine started complaining when I applied even to IKEA - I mean, it actually has something to do with my field, somehow, but wasn't in order with her ideas of what I should be doing.

Not sure. I always felt the RAV is a little weird feudal system populated with strange mini-lords that like to make us, peasants, go through a living hell before they grant us enough money to survive one more day.

I should lay off the Monty Python movies...
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  #43  
Old 20.05.2018, 21:53
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

Cool troll bro, but you jumped the shark a bit early with the 'money post'.

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A country that does not think beyond its own borders.

A country with many narrow-minded people who exclude others because they are weak in their talents, instead of embracing diversity and competition.

A small insignificant country that is not improving, but protecting something that is unsustainable. A country which built its wealth from historical events
You should have milked the can't-get-up-in-the-morning theme for the first page, introduced the why-can't-they-all-speak-English in the second page and saved this one for last.
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  #44  
Old 20.05.2018, 22:33
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

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I want my rights. I have paid my contributions and am eligible to be paid, but it would seem that they have a problem about it; and their actions are hindering my job search, if anything.
How old are you, 12?

Tom
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  #45  
Old 21.05.2018, 00:03
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

Can you lot just shut the f'up............


I'm sleeping, it' only 07.30hrs
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  #46  
Old 21.05.2018, 11:30
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

@ tomdavies, I guess the problem is that you can refuse all of the jobs abroad even if you got an offer. According to the rules you can refuse a job offer when the daily commute time is more than 4 h.

The above fancy rule seems to have a strong influence on the job market. I have been told by my advisor to include a full address on my resume as this is how things are done in Switzerland. For me it looks really stupid to put the address when in fact I don't own any property so I am not tied to any place. Interesting side effect is that employers tend to check your travel time, I've been asked a few times you live x km from here, what is your plan? as if it was not obvious that I was interested in the job by sending the application.

I was always applying for any job around me, even if I exceeded the minimum required. My strategy was to not include all the jobs I have applied on the spreadsheet, just the minimum, so in worst case I still had something left to put there in a few months ahead. But the truth is, there was no more than 3 jobs a month related to my profile and as you know the employers here are always looking for the ideal candidate. The strategy granted me a job eventually but the job didn't work out. One of a hundred applications seems to be the lucky one where they agree to hire you even if you are not the rare unicorn but then that's a challenge to fit into the job.
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  #47  
Old 21.05.2018, 11:43
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

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Interesting side effect is that employers tend to check your travel time, I've been asked a few times you live x km from here, what is your plan? as if it was not obvious that I was interested in the job by sending the application.
While understandable, this irritates me a little. What? You don't think I've noticed that I live in the mountains? Yes, I know it will take a couple of hours each way - that's what is necessary to wake up to snowcapped peaks and sunshine in the morning instead of, say, Oerlikon.

I'm even prepared to sell up and move for the right full time position. "Yes, but..." Yes, but really. I'm serious about finding a job.

Grrrr!
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  #48  
Old 21.05.2018, 11:48
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

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How old are you, 12?

Tom
Hey, I call dibs on that. I'm the resident 12-year-old.
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  #49  
Old 21.05.2018, 13:31
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

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While understandable, this irritates me a little. What? You don't think I've noticed that I live in the mountains? Yes, I know it will take a couple of hours each way - that's what is necessary to wake up to snowcapped peaks and sunshine in the morning instead of, say, Oerlikon.

I'm even prepared to sell up and move for the right full time position. "Yes, but..." Yes, but really. I'm serious about finding a job.

Grrrr!
Yea, it does show a certain lack of respect; like the interviewee hasn't worked out the basics of life like coming to a satisfactory location/commuting balance or even how to get up in the morning.

One would be tempted to reply (DON'T DO THIS!):

"Gee, I dunno. Was there some point in your screening process where you were supposed to work out you were actually talking to an adult...?"
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  #50  
Old 21.05.2018, 17:38
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

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Yea, it does show a certain lack of respect; like the interviewee hasn't worked out the basics of life like coming to a satisfactory location/commuting balance or even how to get up in the morning.

One would be tempted to reply (DON'T DO THIS!):

"Gee, I dunno. Was there some point in your screening process where you were supposed to work out you were actually talking to an adult...?"
How should they know? You've come accross many adults lately?
Judging from the internet, the chance that a grown up is what we call an adult is about 50/50, no?
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  #51  
Old 21.05.2018, 17:46
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

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How should they know? You've come accross many adults lately?
Judging from the internet, the chance that a grown up is what we call an adult is about 50/50, no?
Well, you screen. What you're essentially saying is that the interviewer has to ask, "are you an idiot?"

Actually, you might be on to something...
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  #52  
Old 21.05.2018, 18:01
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

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Well, you screen. What you're essentially saying is that the interviewer has to ask, "are you an idiot?"

Actually, you might be on to something...
Wrong phrasing. No idiot will ever tell you they are one.
Everybody remembers that word.
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  #53  
Old 21.05.2018, 18:11
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

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1) Perhaps, I should ask to change the advisor, as I think they are fooling me around.


2) I am very serious about finding a job and that is evident from my achievements and cooperation to date.


3) I want my rights. I have paid my contributions and am eligible to be paid, but it would seem that they have a problem about it; and their actions are hindering my job search, if anything.
1) I would not set any hopes up to get a better advisor. Apparently there are good ones, plenty of rubbish ones. To me it's clear that you and only you can be the best advisor. What is called officially an advisor is, in my opinion, some kind of administrative warden.
Feel free to change, you might get a less worse one.

2) Good, you need luck also.

3) Clearly it's a fair request.
-Clearly the "guidance" part they are claiming as part of the ORP official function is seriously defective. In fact, as per my advisor own words it's "support only for the special cases who can't find a job after a few months". He added a few explanations which refered to illiterate or dumb people.

-Clearly again, they are "administrative warden" and are only here to check what you are doing, they won't/can't help in most cases.

On the positive side, one can "use" advisors to obtain something, sometimes, eventually (like a training). It's not given simply and there's some convincing to do and it depends on each job seeker situation.

Nonetheless, you complaining about it won't change the system, it would takes way more in Switzerland to change that. And apparently it's set on political level and nice arranged unemployment figures are apparently full proof evidence that the system works. In other words, there's no motivation to change anything about it.

By the way, I had the wonderful opportunity to experience:
-Job center in UK
-Pole Emploi (french equivalent)
-ORP in Switzerland

They all have something in common, they are all absolutely useless and administrative warden. Most of the time they are hindering finding a job and they are most likely adapted to uneducated/not motivated people.

I still complied with their stupid and annoying requirements to get:
-Close to zero GBP in UK
-Zero Euros in FR (not contributed long enough)
-70% of my ex-salary in CH. *heart*


In fact, I'm a bit unfair, thanks to them I was a great "Job SEEKER" (not a job FINDER ).

It takes anything outside their scope to actually find a job:¨

-Network of people
-Friends well placed
-Luck
-Adaptation to numerous idiots in the recruitment process
-Perseverance
-Flexibility (or will to lose x or y and make a compromise)
-Skills
-Realistic EXPECTATIONS

On that closing note, your expectations of them are wrong, only you will get yourself out of unemployment, the sooner you get that, the faster you won't have to deal with ORP.
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  #54  
Old 21.05.2018, 18:30
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

ALV is an insurance. With RAV checking that the requirements for receiving benefits are fulfilled.

It is kind of interesting what is expected from RAV.
Health insurance does not suggest how to get healthy again (now that would cause a shout through the entire population! )
Car insurance does not send you to take more driver's lessons. (The judge might though )
Liability insurance does not teach you how to be more considerate about other people's things.

They all check very well though. Just not as visible to the client as ALV.

The net is packed with job-centers. Many are very professional.
Okay, they cost money - just like "you" did before getting unemployed.
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Old 21.05.2018, 18:54
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

No doubt they are the "administrative wardens". I've never found it bad or unpleasant or annoying however I got suspicious and I decided to never list an important application in the spreadsheet. I don't know what they are told to do but they certainly do more than just putting the stamp on your file. I had once a bit unusually long application process with some X company. They interviewed me once, gave me a boring homework, then another interview round, even more boring homework, then again... if it was not in Switzerland I would certainly laugh at them and tell them go to hell, but instead I continued the silly game just postponing the interviews in the end explaining I was really busy. To my surprise the next meeting with my advisor started with sooo you are very busy recently...
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  #56  
Old 21.05.2018, 19:27
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

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No doubt they are the "administrative wardens". I've never found it bad or unpleasant or annoying however I got suspicious and I decided to never list an important application in the spreadsheet. I don't know what they are told to do but they certainly do more than just putting the stamp on your file. I had once a bit unusually long application process with some X company. They interviewed me once, gave me a boring homework, then another interview round, even more boring homework, then again... if it was not in Switzerland I would certainly laugh at them and tell them go to hell, but instead I continued the silly game just postponing the interviews in the end explaining I was really busy. To my surprise the next meeting with my advisor started with sooo you are very busy recently...
That seems to be a newish thing (don't know, was not unemployed for a long time).
I translated for an IT person once who told the RAV-person about such tasks (several!), which he had to do for a company he applied for.

To me it sounded more like "let's get some work done for free - unemployment-office will pay for it". I was a bit surprised the RAV-consultant did not react at all. (Well, maybe she did after )

While management staff is perfectly entitled to ALV, it must be extremly awkward - if not counter-productive - when RAV interferes with applications.
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Old 23.05.2018, 23:40
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Re: RAV Advisor states that I must apply to at least 9 jobs in CH of the mandatory 12

Unless you enroll in German classes and request a student visa.
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