Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03.09.2018, 12:20
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Belp
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ivandotru has no particular reputation at present
Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

Hi all,

Could someone help me in the following situation:

1. My company announced that will go to bankruptcy 29.08
2. I have signed permanent 100% contract from 01.09 (first time work in Swiss) with 3 month probation period
3. No official notice of termination nor e-mail received till this moment from HR
4. I registered in Belp Community 13.08, documents for permit B sent 14.08 to Migration office in Bern, no permit received yet (EU citizen)

So my questions are:

1. Have I rights to receive any compensation from company due to bankruptcy?
2. Have my company to pay me salary for first month (in fact I am sitting at home now, I asked my supervisor what to do but he told me to contact HR, no answer from HR)
3. What I need to receive from my employer and have I register in RAV?

Thank you in advance
  #2  
Old 03.09.2018, 13:07
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

During your probation period you can be very easily fired and also on very short term. You are entitled to salary for the days you were under contract, yet it is to wonder if there is any money to pay towards you. You are not entitled to extra money due to the bankruptcy, and given that you worked so short RAV is also not going to pay you unemployment money.

Best you can do in this situation is spend 16 hours a day to try to land a new job and prepare for losing all income for some time if you cannot land a job quickly.

As for your permit this might get refused if you have no income or funds of your own, situation also depends on if you are EU or not.
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 03.09.2018, 13:34
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Belp
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ivandotru has no particular reputation at present
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

Hello,

thank you for the answer. I am not familiarize with Swiss Labor law but I found that for probation period I have to receive termination notice before 7 days.

But if company goes to bankruptcy it is mean that will be fired more than 10% of employees and 2 or 3 month salary have to be paid by bankruptcy judge from bankruptcy insurance and it have to be controlled by Labor Office.

In worst scenario I need to wait for notice of termination? Or I have any other possibilities?

P.S. of course I sent my CV to a lot of companies during several days but I have specific qualification in aviation.
  #4  
Old 03.09.2018, 14:05
Mullhollander's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Aargau
Posts: 2,602
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,655 Times in 1,605 Posts
Mullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

In Switzerland when an employee loses his job due to the bankruptcy of the employer, the employee can apply for bankruptcy compensation for unpaid outstanding wages. Please see this RAV webpage for more information (English):

https://www.arbeit.swiss/secoalv/en/...insolvenz.html

The application form is called Antrag auf Insolvenzentschädigung in German and is at this link. It is also available in F and I:

https://www.arbeit.swiss/secoalv/en/...beitslose.html

RAV can clarify whether a job-seeker who has not started a position due to the employer's bankruptcy is entitled to bankruptcy compensation.
Also, any job-seeker legally resident in Switzerland can register with RAV. At a minimum, RAV can provide guidance on looking for a job in Switzerland. The RAV office nearest your residence would be responsible for you.


Also, if you are coming from an EU/EFTA country, you might be able to transfer unemployment compensation benefits from that country to Switzerland using a PD U-1 form. Your local RAV office can provide details.



Good luck to you!
The following 2 users would like to thank Mullhollander for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 03.09.2018, 15:29
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,503
Groaned at 217 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 7,421 Times in 3,283 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

Quote:
View Post
Hi all,

Could someone help me in the following situation:

1. My company announced that will go to bankruptcy 29.08
2. I have signed permanent 100% contract from 01.09 (first time work in Swiss) with 3 month probation period
3. No official notice of termination nor e-mail received till this moment from HR
4. I registered in Belp Community 13.08, documents for permit B sent 14.08 to Migration office in Bern, no permit received yet (EU citizen)

So my questions are:

1. Have I rights to receive any compensation from company due to bankruptcy?
2. Have my company to pay me salary for first month (in fact I am sitting at home now, I asked my supervisor what to do but he told me to contact HR, no answer from HR)
3. What I need to receive from my employer and have I register in RAV?

Thank you in advance
You have a contract beginning on the 1st of Sept, but the company went bankrupt before the contract commenced. And as the company no longer has the legal capacity to undertake the contract I doubt you have any rights under Swiss labour law, limited as it is.
The following 5 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 03.09.2018, 15:42
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Belp
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ivandotru has no particular reputation at present
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

Quote:
View Post
You have a contract beginning on the 1st of Sept, but the company went bankrupt before the contract commenced. And as the company no longer has the legal capacity to undertake the contract I doubt you have any rights under Swiss labour law, limited as it is.
in fact the status of company still active and bankruptcy judge not approved bankruptcy yet (iaw last available news)
  #7  
Old 03.09.2018, 15:58
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 13,610
Groaned at 236 Times in 207 Posts
Thanked 19,979 Times in 8,116 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

I am not a lawyer, but a few thoughts:

The employment contract requires 7 day's notice of termination. That might well mean that if a company terminates e.g. 3 days before the start date, they're still obliged to pay you for 4 days, in lieu of notice. The impending bankruptcy notice might be considered to be notice of termination.

Sometimes, when a company goes under, parts of it are bought out as a valid concern by another company - and debts to employees are taken on. If you've not been notified of termination of employment, you could possibly still have a job.

Worst case, you might get nothing. (this in my opinion is most likely)
Best case, you're still employed.
Middle case, you get a few days worth of salary.
__________________
Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!
  #8  
Old 03.09.2018, 16:10
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Belp
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ivandotru has no particular reputation at present
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

I received e-mail ''to stay at home till further notice''; company published official press release at company site. I was in office today but HR was not in office and can not be reached by phone or e-mail. Therefore I have no notice of termination till this moment (I think because of HR's part time employee)
  #9  
Old 03.09.2018, 16:37
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,783
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,576 Times in 8,681 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

Shall we name the baby by its name? SkyWork Airline.

Company Website:
https://flyskywork.com

Press:
https://bazonline.ch/wirtschaft/unte...story/24765644

BAZL:
https://www.bazl.admin.ch/bazl/en/ho...assagiere.html

Commercial Register Entry:
https://be.chregister.ch/cr-portal/a...HE-104.497.746

No bankruptcy or other fillings yet visible https://www.shab.ch But that can take some time.
According the press the management only filled for insolvency but not bankruptcy/liquidation.
https://www.derbund.ch/bern/region/k...story/26262245

As far as I understand as long as the employer has not officially given notice and the prospective employer offers his work he is still employed.

More information (in English) on the bankruptcy process
https://www.kmu.admin.ch/kmu/en/home...ankruptcy.html

Here a leaflet (in German) by SECO regarding, Insolvenzentschädigung
https://www.arbeit.swiss/secoalv/en/...oschueren.html
Be aware of the formalities and time line.


Further information (in German) on :
https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/de/ho...haedigung.html
https://www.vol.be.ch/vol/de/index/a...beitgeber.html
https://www.notariate.zh.ch/deu/konk...ohnglaeubiger/
__________________
On Hiatus- Normal operation will resume 22.02.2022 22:02:20.22
The following 5 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 03.09.2018, 16:51
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Belp
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ivandotru has no particular reputation at present
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

thank you a lot for so detailed answer!
  #11  
Old 03.09.2018, 17:03
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,333
Groaned at 128 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 7,258 Times in 2,761 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

Quote:
View Post
You have a contract beginning on the 1st of Sept, but the company went bankrupt before the contract commenced. And as the company no longer has the legal capacity to undertake the contract I doubt you have any rights under Swiss labour law, limited as it is.
I'm inclined to agree with this. The problem indeed is that the company went bankrupt before you even started to work, so you're very unlikely to be entitled to anything, though this of course sucks all over the place.

I'll be doing some research though into this specific situation.
The following 2 users would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 03.09.2018, 17:53
Mullhollander's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Aargau
Posts: 2,602
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,655 Times in 1,605 Posts
Mullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

According to this legal article, an employee continues to be employed by a bankrupt company until the employee or employer or a bankruptcy administrator terminates the employment contract:


"Die Konkurseröffnung über den Arbeitgeber hat nicht von Gesetzes wegen die Beendigung des Arbeitsverhältnisses zur Folge. Wird das Arbeitsverhältnis weder vom Arbeitnehmer noch vom Arbeitgeber bzw. von der in den Arbeitsvertrag eingetretenen Konkursverwaltung gekündigt, so besteht es unverändert weiter und der Arbeitnehmer hat seine Forderung gegen den konkursiten Arbeitgeber persönlich geltend zu machen, da das Konkursprivileg erster Klasse gemäss SchKG 219/4 keine Anwendung findet."


http://www.trex.ch/custom/trex/pdfar...ach_Konkur.pdf
The following 3 users would like to thank Mullhollander for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 03.09.2018, 18:11
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,333
Groaned at 128 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 7,258 Times in 2,761 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

Quote:
View Post
According to this legal article, an employee continues to be employed by a bankrupt company until the employee or employer or a bankruptcy administrator terminates the employment contract:


"Die Konkurseröffnung über den Arbeitgeber hat nicht von Gesetzes wegen die Beendigung des Arbeitsverhältnisses zur Folge. Wird das Arbeitsverhältnis weder vom Arbeitnehmer noch vom Arbeitgeber bzw. von der in den Arbeitsvertrag eingetretenen Konkursverwaltung gekündigt, so besteht es unverändert weiter und der Arbeitnehmer hat seine Forderung gegen den konkursiten Arbeitgeber persönlich geltend zu machen, da das Konkursprivileg erster Klasse gemäss SchKG 219/4 keine Anwendung findet."


http://www.trex.ch/custom/trex/pdfar...ach_Konkur.pdf
But there's no existing employment relationship. There's only a contract, but the employment hasn't in fact started yet... At least I'm assuming OP was asked to not come in at all? Actually, let me ask this question: OP, has there been no interaction at all? Did they tell you not to come in? Or say anything for that matter?

I think at best OP will get compensation for the 7 days notice period during the probation period, but even that's a stretch I think.
The following 2 users would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 03.09.2018, 18:11
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,503
Groaned at 217 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 7,421 Times in 3,283 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

Quote:
View Post
According to this legal article, an employee continues to be employed by a bankrupt company until the employee or employer or a bankruptcy administrator terminates the employment contract:
But that presupposes that the OP was an employee in the first place. The OP was not an employee on the date the company declared bankruptcy. His contract only commenced after the bankruptcy had been declared. He is fully aware that the company is unable perform its party of the contract.
The following 2 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 03.09.2018, 18:27
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Belp
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ivandotru has no particular reputation at present
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

I was in office 29.08, filled internal papers with HR and received badge - can it be considered as start of work relationship?
Till this moment I have only e-mail "stay at home for further notice", verbally my supervisor told me that I have to speak with HR but HR not reachable in office nor by phone/e-mail (part time employee).
  #16  
Old 03.09.2018, 18:33
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Belp
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
ivandotru has no particular reputation at present
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

additionally, I signed contract 06.07
  #17  
Old 03.09.2018, 19:21
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,783
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,576 Times in 8,681 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

Quote:
View Post
The OP was not an employee on the date the company declared bankruptcy.
As far as I know bankruptcy has not been declared and filled yet.
We have to wait and see what the actual bankruptcy date will be.
https://www.shab.ch/#!/search/public...eyword=skywork

Also, according to this the contract is not automatically terminated with bankruptcy: http://www.trex.ch/custom/trex/pdfar...ach_Konkur.pdf

If the bankruptcy is after September 1st, then the days might be covered by the Insolvenzentschädigung.

@ivandotru There is still the option of registered mail to the official company address (See commercial register entry). Also read and understand your contract regarding notice period during the 3 month probation period. Be also aware that you can not work for another company before you terminated your current contract or have been given approval (best would be written form) from you current company. As no paycheck is due till end of month you can not claim any payment or leave the company without any notice period.

The best option is to start looking for an new employer starting from right now.


As you never got a paycheck, and no paycheck is due till end of month you can not claim any payment yet.
__________________
On Hiatus- Normal operation will resume 22.02.2022 22:02:20.22
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 03.09.2018, 20:15
Doctor's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,069
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 527 Times in 323 Posts
Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeDoctor has a reputation beyond reputeDoctor has a reputation beyond reputeDoctor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

Hi Ivan,


Which country are you from ?


How much have you worked in the last 24 months, and which countries ?


Assuming you get your B-Permit, you may be eligible for some unemployment benefits, but depends on the answers to the 2 above questions.


Better run down to RAV first thing tomorrow, and explain them the sitation, and if you should register, or are considererd working.


Doc.
The following 2 users would like to thank Doctor for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 03.09.2018, 21:12
Mullhollander's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Aargau
Posts: 2,602
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,655 Times in 1,605 Posts
Mullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond reputeMullhollander has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

Assuming this thread is about Skywork Airlines, the below appeared on the Travel Inside website today. It says that Skywork is emphasizing that the bankruptcy has not yet been opened. The financial statements were deposited with the court on 29 August with an application to open bankruptcy proceedings. Skywork and the court are in contact and the court is reviewing whether to open bankruptcy and the corresponding process is pending. A decision is provisionally expected in the course of the coming week.



"Skywork selbst hat sich ebenfalls nochmals zu Wort gemeldet und betont, dass der Konkurs noch nicht eröffnet sei. «Der Verwaltungsrat von Skywork Airlines AG hat die Bilanz am Mittwoch, 29. August 2018 beim Regionalgericht Bern-Mittelland mit Antrag auf Konkurseröffnung deponiert. Skywork Airlines und das Gericht stehen in Kontakt und das Gericht prüft, ob der Konkurs zu eröffnen ist. Das entsprechende Verfahren ist hängig.
Mit einem Entscheid ist voraussichtlich im Verlauf der kommenden Woche zu rechnen.»"


https://abouttravel.ch/reisebranche/...kywork-fluege/
This user would like to thank Mullhollander for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 03.09.2018, 22:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 9,292
Groaned at 480 Times in 361 Posts
Thanked 12,369 Times in 6,420 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Need info: employee rights in case of bankruptcy

Quote:
View Post
additionally, I signed contract 06.07
You have a valid contract. Full stop.

Both parties are bound until it's been cancelled and notice period has ended. Do not give notice, fulfill your duties as if nothing had happened. Simply because nothing has happened until you've been given notice.

That is, you show up as agreed and start your work. If the employer refuses your sevices that's their decision, but that doesn't void the contract or relieve either side from their contractual obligations.

The Insolvenzversicherung guarantees up to six monthly salaries, up to about 10k per month gross. So getting your work's worth should be no concern (or of little concern if you earn more).

Contact RAV (the unemployment agency in your employer's Canton, presumably Bern) immediately for advice and instructions.
The following 2 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hotel Employee Rights, pregnancy MsSomeone Employment 79 11.09.2014 19:45
[LGBT rights in employment] What do you think of this case? happyrobbie Employment 25 31.07.2014 20:19
Employee Rights Spike Employment 2 24.01.2011 21:23
In case of unemployment, rights and duties. Gaggiol0 Employment 15 23.10.2009 22:29
Employee rights Ronald Mast Employment 12 02.04.2007 22:47


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0