Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 25.09.2018, 16:29
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: US
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
airman has no particular reputation at present
Fire a sick employee?

Hello everyone,

Management was looking to fire an employee by the end of the month, but now that employee is out sick. It needed to be done this month because after that the employee has a 3 month notice period instead of a 1 month period (first year of employment is up). Is it possible to terminate her while she's sick or will management have to wait until she returns? If management must wait, then her notice period would be 3 months instead of 1 month.

Thank you for your advice.
Sincerely,
Airman
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 25.09.2018, 16:30
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,879
Groaned at 742 Times in 496 Posts
Thanked 6,958 Times in 3,337 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Fire a sick employee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by airman View Post
Hello everyone,

Management was looking to fire an employee by the end of the month, but now that employee is out sick. It needed to be done this month because after that the employee has a 3 month notice period instead of a 1 month period (first year of employment is up). Is it possible to terminate her while she's sick or will management have to wait until she returns? If management must wait, then her notice period would be 3 months instead of 1 month.

Thank you for your advice.
Sincerely,
Airman

You think we going to tell you Management ??


You're location is US, we are in CH
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Today only for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 25.09.2018, 16:33
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 7,305
Groaned at 489 Times in 417 Posts
Thanked 12,454 Times in 4,960 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Fire a sick employee?

if management are in switzerland and have staff here then they already know the answer

hint - in the specific case you outline, no, they can't
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
This user groans at bigblue2 for this post:
  #4  
Old 25.09.2018, 16:40
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Leimbach, Zürich
Posts: 4,006
Groaned at 203 Times in 162 Posts
Thanked 4,130 Times in 2,104 Posts
EdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Fire a sick employee?

In the first year they cannot give notice during the first 30 days of being sick.

Congrats with either having your employee longer, or congrats on receiving extra months of payment. win/win
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank EdwinNL for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 25.09.2018, 19:08
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 10,365
Groaned at 159 Times in 138 Posts
Thanked 14,604 Times in 5,916 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Fire a sick employee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblue2 View Post
if management are in switzerland and have staff here then they already know the answer

hint - in the specific case you outline, no, they can't
So, if you suspect you're going to be fired within such a deadline, find a friendly doc, and get signed off sick for stress. Nice.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 25.09.2018, 19:10
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Leimbach, Zürich
Posts: 4,006
Groaned at 203 Times in 162 Posts
Thanked 4,130 Times in 2,104 Posts
EdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Fire a sick employee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAllThere View Post
So, if you suspect you're going to be fired within such a deadline, find a friendly doc, and get signed off sick for stress. Nice.
Here at least a company can get rid of somebody who is ill, just with some delay, In the Netherlands an employer is stuck with somebody for 2 years. (one of the many reasons why an unlimited contract is the rare holy grail to people)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank EdwinNL for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 25.09.2018, 22:08
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Zurich
Posts: 220
Groaned at 29 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 142 Times in 71 Posts
Dandy is considered unworthyDandy is considered unworthyDandy is considered unworthy
Re: Fire a sick employee?

Bei Krankheit oder Unfall (336c Abs. 1 lit. b OR) gewährt das Gesetz dem ganz oder teilweise arbeitsunfähigen Arbeitnehmenden einen Kündigungsschutz; und zwar im ersten Dienstjahr während 30 Tagen, ab zweitem bis und mit fünftem Dienstjahr während 90 Tagen und ab sechstem Dienstjahr während 180 Tagen. Die Kündigung, die während einer solchen Sperrfrist erfolgt, ist nichtig.
Ist die Kündigung aber vor Beginn einer Sperrfrist beziehungsweise vor Eintreten eines Sperrfristentatbestandes (Abs. 1) erfolgt, wird der Ablauf der Kündigungsfrist unterbrochen und erst nach Beendigung der Sperrfrist fortgesetzt (vgl. Art. 336c Abs. 2). Wird also der Arbeitnehmer während laufender Kündigungsfrist wegen Krankheit oder Unfall arbeitsunfähig, wird die Kündigungsfrist unterbrochen und nach Wegfall der Arbeitsunfähigkeit um die Dauer der Arbeitsunfähigkeit verlängert. Grund für die Verlängerung ist, dass der gekündigte Arbeitnehmer die Möglichkeit haben soll, während der vollen Kündigungsfrist eine neue Stelle zu suchen. Das Gesetz garantiert dem Arbeitnehmenden somit eine ungekürzte Kündigungsfrist.
Gilt für die Beendigung des Arbeitsverhältnisses ein bestimmter Endtermin – wie etwa das Ende eines Monats oder einer Arbeitswoche – und fällt dieser nicht mit dem Ende der fortgesetzten bzw. der nun verlängerten Kündigungsfrist zusammen, verlängert sich die Kündigungsfrist bis zum nächstfolgenden möglichen Endtermin. Faktisch kann sich das Arbeitsverhältnis so um einen oder gar mehrere Monate verlängern.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Dandy for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 25.09.2018, 22:25
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 4,095
Groaned at 27 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 5,611 Times in 2,297 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Fire a sick employee?

Dandy, could you please provide the link from which you quoted? Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 25.09.2018, 22:27
jacek's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 7,951
Groaned at 105 Times in 80 Posts
Thanked 5,438 Times in 3,057 Posts
jacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Fire a sick employee?

By forum’s rule one needs to provide a translation of some sort - however ugly it is ...

In the case of illness or accident (336c para. 1 lit. OR), the law grants dismissal protection for employees who are wholly or partially incapacitated for work; in the first year of service for 30 days, from the second to and at the fifth year of service for 90 days and from the sixth year of service for 180 days. The termination, which takes place during such a blocking period, is void.
However, if the termination occurred before the beginning of a vesting period or before the occurrence of a blocking period (paragraph 1), the expiry of the notice period is interrupted and continued only after the end of the blocking period (see Art. 336c (2)). If, therefore, the employee becomes incapable of work during the period of notice due to illness or accident, the period of notice is interrupted and extended to the duration of incapacity for work after the incapacity to work has ceased. Reason for the extension is that the terminated employee should have the opportunity to look for a new job during the full notice period. The law thus guarantees the employee an unabridged notice period.
Applies to the end of the working ratio, a certain end date - such as the end of a month or a working week - and does not fall this together with the end of the continuous or of the now extended period of notice, the notice until the next possible expiry date extended. In fact, the employment relationship can be extended by one or even several months.
__________________
🎾That's what we do to help English speaking expats community in Switzerland:
General Information About Swiss Tennis
Tennis Lessons Summer Winter Seasons
🎾🎾Our charity organization to help unprivileged kids to realize their dreams:
FMTF Supports Tennis For Children in Southern Africa
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jacek for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 25.09.2018, 22:38
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Leimbach, Zürich
Posts: 4,006
Groaned at 203 Times in 162 Posts
Thanked 4,130 Times in 2,104 Posts
EdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Fire a sick employee?

Also good to know, unless agreed upon otherwise the company only has to pay for the first 3 weeks during the first year, so this might even the cheapest solution for them.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 25.09.2018, 23:43
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: ZH
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 13 Times in 3 Posts
Aaron Rubinstein has no particular reputation at present
Re: Fire a sick employee?

To OP: The notice period does not become 3 months. The "interruption" goes both ways. So, the employer can fire the employee once she is back with 1 month notice period as long as they do it because she worked (excl. sick days) for 1 year. People use this trick of being sick to get around being noticed. It only works so far, particularly because the employee will not get paid after short period of times, already (e.g., 30 days), depending on their employer and contract.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Aaron Rubinstein for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 26.09.2018, 07:35
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Zurich
Posts: 220
Groaned at 29 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 142 Times in 71 Posts
Dandy is considered unworthyDandy is considered unworthyDandy is considered unworthy
Re: Fire a sick employee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by doropfiz View Post
Dandy, could you please provide the link from which you quoted? Thanks.

https://www.20min.ch/community/dossi...story/14069220
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 26.09.2018, 09:29
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 3,854
Groaned at 95 Times in 78 Posts
Thanked 6,182 Times in 2,364 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Fire a sick employee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Rubinstein View Post
To OP: The notice period does not become 3 months. The "interruption" goes both ways. So, the employer can fire the employee once she is back with 1 month notice period as long as they do it because she worked (excl. sick days) for 1 year. People use this trick of being sick to get around being noticed. It only works so far, particularly because the employee will not get paid after short period of times, already (e.g., 30 days), depending on their employer and contract.
Nope that doesn't work. What counts is the "gross" duration of employment, and not net attendance minus sick days


EdwinNL was correct. She can't be terminated as long as she is sick, though protection is only up to 3 weeks (not 30 days) during the first year of employment. Her absence will now presumably push her into the > 1 year of employment bracket and because employment contracts can only be terminated by the end of a month, the new notice period will be 3 months. Too bad, but that's what it is.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
fire, notice period, sick, terminate




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Employee laws Holly0 Employment 8 20.04.2016 18:11
Non-EU (Moving from employee to self-Employee) Jnk Business & entrepreneur 8 12.09.2013 07:21
Fire sale (moving soon) (no fire either :D ) DrX Items for sale 18 02.08.2013 13:57
My father is sick and his boss is trying to fire him and my mother because of it. Tinkerblk Employment 15 26.03.2012 15:31
Official Sick leave policy for any Swiss employee:- Sammy123 Permits/visas/government 2 08.10.2010 14:09


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0