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  #21  
Old 28.11.2018, 10:22
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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They may be adding jobs, but in Finance, they're not adding them in Switzerland. The long-term strategy is to place as many of the back-office jobs as possible in low-cost locations.
Same at Roche - they just do it quietly and slowly so it doesn’t make news headlines. My entire department has been moved to the U.K. or outsourced to agencies across the globe in cheaper locations. Meanwhile they are building two more eye sore towers. Awful!
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Old 28.11.2018, 10:22
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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A finance position in a pharma company is similar to one in a food or manufacturing company.
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From an accounting perspective, an Asset, Liability, Expense and Income double entry is pretty much same regardless of which industry you work for.
While these remarks may be true at some basic level, it reveals a high level of naivity/inexperience and that you don't even know that/what you don't know.
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  #23  
Old 28.11.2018, 10:25
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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They may be adding jobs, but in Finance, they're not adding them in Switzerland. The long-term strategy is to place as many of the back-office jobs as possible in low-cost locations.
Yep and the reality is that the generic accounting jobs that people mentioned here are the easy ones to relocate. Accounting is the new ĎITí when it comes to outsourcing.
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  #24  
Old 28.11.2018, 10:39
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

it is not impossible. just had an interview last week and never worked in pharma before.
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Old 28.11.2018, 12:39
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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Same at Roche - they just do it quietly and slowly so it doesnít make news headlines. My entire department has been moved to the U.K. or outsourced to agencies across the globe in cheaper locations. Meanwhile they are building two more eye sore towers. Awful!

I can also testify that Roche is offshoring jobs to low cost countries.. such as the UK .. dear God, Queen Vic must be spinning
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  #26  
Old 28.11.2018, 13:26
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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I've been passively applying for finance roles in the Pharma industry such as Novartis, Roche, Lonza, etc for the past 8 years but I constantly get rejected despite having a good match with the job description.

I have the relevant qualification and experience but the only thing I can think of that may be the root cause of rejection is not having a pharmaceutical background, but I don't know why this would be a big deal.

Furthermore, I don't like the fact that these companies insist on registering on their job websites as this will show my historical applications in different parts of finance, which may put them off or base their previous decisions to any future applications.

I would also like to why companies ask if I applied to them in the last 12 months? What possible decisions can they make from this information?
Passively applying, in this context isn't it an oxymoron? https://searchhrsoftware.techtarget....sive-candidate

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A passive candidate (passive job candidate) is someone who is being considered for a position but is not actively searching for a job. Active candidates submit applications to human resources departments. Passive candidates, however, are sought out by recruiters.
You are saying you are passively applying (ie: being sought out by recruiters and not yourself applying) and yet complaining you haven't had any response in 8 years? If you are not actively and aggressively pursuing positions at these companies then I would consider this the first hurdle to overcome.

I mean really... 8 years is a long time to sit on your ass and wonder why you were not considered, I would call that several steps below passive, bordering on sloth-like levels of reactions or extreme laziness.

As for why companies ask if you applied within the last 12 months this should be completely obvious to anyone with some career experience... if someone is rejected from multiple job applications then they usually know that it is not worth investing too much time looking at them more closely.
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  #27  
Old 28.11.2018, 14:52
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

In the not so distant future I can almost envisage that the SVP coming up with an initiative to slap tariffs on outsourced services. This currently happens for all goods, itís just a matter of time for this to apply to services.

In the old days Swiss companies used to place their cash in Money Market Funds (MMF) outside of Switzerland, then the WHT was slapped and that put a stop to that practice.
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  #28  
Old 28.11.2018, 18:51
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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The pharmaceutical industry and pharmaceutical marketing/finance is very specific and experience in the regulatory environment and working within a healthcare environment very important.
The more senior the role, the more the necessity for this experience, so unless you have that a move from another industry is very difficult.
I do hear that a great deal, but with the service roles - IT, Finance, HR - it's really not the case. Any pecularities can be picked up in a short period of time. But managers naturally prefer someone who can hit the ground running. Further, the more senior the role, the less the experience of the industry really makes a difference. A manager who's effectively an administrator doesn't even have to be that good at their technical subject.

Just saying there are many practices in all industries that have almost acquired the status of axioms - not all of them are true.

Roche nowadays has almost an exclusive preference for "prior Roche experience" - no matter how many other boxes you might tick. It's even pretty tough to apply internally unless you've got contacts in the hiring team.
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Old 28.11.2018, 18:55
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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In the not so distant future I can almost envisage that the SVP coming up with an initiative to slap tariffs on outsourced services....
I'd be happy if it was just with non-EU outsourcing that was targetted. At least that way the quality might be improved.
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  #30  
Old 29.11.2018, 11:01
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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I'd be happy if it was just with non-EU outsourcing that was targetted. At least that way the quality might be improved.
I guess none of your or your colleagues work has been moved to Poland or Budapest?
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  #31  
Old 29.11.2018, 13:09
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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Roche nowadays has almost an exclusive preference for "prior Roche experience" - no matter how many other boxes you might tick. It's even pretty tough to apply internally unless you've got contacts in the hiring team.




Let me be VERY clear here. Just because you're an internal candidate does not mean you have any great chance than an external candidate - i know, i've beaten a few times internal candidates for a job as an external and i've been through the internal process.


You absolutely right on..Unless you have internal contacts.....however...If you're an internal candidate and you have not don't any networking or have done work to establish your credibility and interest in a path you're looking to move, are politcally well seated, forget it, you're in the same bucket as an external candidate. And I can speak from and N and R perspective - having been at R for a bit and having a partner at was a N now at R. You want a competitive advantage - then as an internal candidate then, do just as an external candidate has to do, you build your network, get adovcacy for your work and credibility, be politically connected, internal ones, get your boss on your side otherwise you're a nothing. So ZERO exclusivity there.


Please let's not propagate that myth of internal candidate advantage (unless they've done some work). How many N are now at R even though they applied to internal positions when they were made redundant? yeah..that's right. So forget it for internal advantage.


If you've been at N, you know the un-written rule, 10 percent of your time networking for your own individual advancement. At R..hmm..haven't been there for many many years and my tenure was short, can comment, my partner is a new hire (fixed FTE role) so can't comment for her either.


If anything there is a trend in pharma to bring new blood into the company - this is how I got my current role - they wanted a new view, didn't want old-school, wanted someone to bring a different eye. Not that I can...i said I can..but well i guess my annual review from early this week is scored an exceeds so I guess i'm delivering on what was expected of me....boh. go figure. But see my point about N giving the big F U to redundant candidates (internals mind you) for other jobs in N. Only the politically connected and networked at a change..but as being politically networked and connect, they found their next role well before any redudancy notice.




And..yes, i've done internal moves - and i didn't just apply to the first internal job I say, i did what I said..networked, did the "stakeholder management" thing, built creblity and politcal support...that's the way you do it. That's where you get competitive advantage as internal candidate.


Best.
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  #32  
Old 29.11.2018, 18:20
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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I guess none of your or your colleagues work has been moved to Poland or Budapest?
Of course they have. The point is that the quality of the Polish or Hungarian externals is far higher than the non-EU outsourced resources. I don't mind someone "taking my job" - that's just competition - it's when they do it badly I get pissed off.

I've been working with Poles and Hungarians since 2000 - rarely have I had to deal with an incompetent or lazy consultant. Can't say the same for the likes of TCS, InfoSys etc.
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  #33  
Old 30.11.2018, 09:36
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

Well I have to agree with you that the quality is better - although nowhere near as good as the quality here in Basel.

I don't believe in cheap outsourcing as "competition". I get frustrated with colleagues who simply brush it off as "that's the way the business works". Well yes it is, but it shouldn't be. You get what you pay for...and if Roche continues in this direction, they will only have top executives with over inflated salaries and underpaid scientists left in Switzerland.
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  #34  
Old 30.11.2018, 10:25
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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In the OP's defence, it seems to me that a lot of companies, maybe here, maybe everywhere, are very reticent to allow opportunities to be opened up unless you have direct experience already - even though skills learned in a previous job may be easily transferable, and learning the specific skills of a new job would not realistically take that long.

Of course experience in a role counts, but I find it a shame and have suffered from it myself as I try to make sideways moves in my career.
Call me ignorant but certain professions are industry agnostic: HR, financial controller, IT geek, software engineer, receptionist,... IMHO, a candidate, from such list of industry independent professionals, for a position at say Roche is equally valuable if they come from Novartis or Alibaba (or any xyz).

I bet the problem is elsewhere. Switzerland is a very small country, there's not enough of those good jobs at the market so all the jobs are already "claimed" by the families and close network of employees ;-)
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  #35  
Old 30.11.2018, 10:35
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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Call me ignorant but certain professions are industry agnostic: HR, financial controller, IT geek, software engineer, receptionist,... IMHO, a candidate, from such list of industry independent professionals, for a position at say Roche is equally valuable if they come from Novartis or Alibaba (or any xyz).
This is often correct and I was wondering wtf some people were talking about with their attempts to make out as though any position at a pharma company requires in-depth pharma experience. Many skills can be applied pretty much universally.
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  #36  
Old 30.11.2018, 11:03
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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Call me ignorant but certain professions are industry agnostic: HR, financial controller, IT geek, software engineer, receptionist,... IMHO, a candidate, from such list of industry independent professionals, for a position at say Roche is equally valuable if they come from Novartis or Alibaba (or any xyz).

While I agree that the barriers to moving between industries are lower in these fields than others, there are still some peculiarities in the pharma industry where you could say that having previous pharma experience, while not prerequisite, could be valuable.


For HR, coming from many industries you would not have experience screening those from research, development and scientific backgrounds. Some familiarity with these types of candidates would be helpful.


For an accountant, being familiar with the heavy use of discounts and rebates in gross-to-net calculations could be helpful.


For IT and software engineers, having worked in validated environments and understanding the extra time, cost, testing rigor and documentation this sort of environment requires. Working in GXP is not like working in an unregulated environment.


Sure, these can all be learned. But if faced with two (otherwise equal) candidates, why wouldn't you take the one who was already familiar with the peculiarities of pharma?
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  #37  
Old 30.11.2018, 11:10
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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While I agree that the barriers to moving between industries are lower in these fields than others, there are still some peculiarities in the pharma industry where you could say that having previous pharma experience, while not prerequisite, could be valuable.


For HR, coming from many industries you would not have experience screening those from research, development and scientific backgrounds. Some familiarity with these types of candidates would be helpful.


For an accountant, being familiar with the heavy use of discounts and rebates in gross-to-net calculations could be helpful.


For IT and software engineers, having worked in validated environments and understanding the extra time, cost, testing rigor and documentation this sort of environment requires. Working in GXP is not like working in an unregulated environment.


Sure, these can all be learned. But if faced with two (otherwise equal) candidates, why wouldn't you take the one who was already familiar with the peculiarities of pharma?
Agree with the above that relevant industry experience is always useful, but you usually don't block the vast majority the the overall talent pool that you need simply because of lack of Pharma experience unless it is a requirement for the role. What generally matters is their skillset and experience and you can always teach them industry peculiarities later.
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  #38  
Old 30.11.2018, 15:22
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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This is often correct and I was wondering wtf some people were talking about with their attempts to make out as though any position at a pharma company requires in-depth pharma experience. Many skills can be applied pretty much universally.
Agree and I believe that even if you need to know the specifics of, let's say, accounting in pharma or IT in pharma then it shouldn't be difficult or take long to learn it.
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Old 30.11.2018, 15:27
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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For an accountant, being familiar with the heavy use of discounts and rebates in gross-to-net calculations could be helpful.
This can be learned in an hour.

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For IT and software engineers, having worked in validated environments and understanding the extra time, cost, testing rigor and documentation this sort of environment requires. Working in GXP is not like working in an unregulated environment.
Aeronautical and aerospace software development is way, way more complicated than pharma on all these aspects.

I don't understand why people make so much fuss about pharma as a business, it's not rocket science. Being a researcher in pharma is one thing, working in the operational side of this business is on the ither hand very mundane.
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Old 30.11.2018, 18:31
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Re: Mission Impossible: Getting Interview @ Novartis & Roche

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Hi couple comments - first I think applying to company websites is in general a waste of time. Serious waste of time.


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I did apply to one job in CH via a website and got it

sounds like a good success ratio

Last edited by The ScottiCH One; 30.11.2018 at 18:34. Reason: Spelling
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