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  #41  
Old 02.12.2018, 11:45
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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1) in fact it is very large so after the probationary period they decided that the guy doesn't do everything as stated on the tin, they decided to cut the salary but keep him.
I doubt a company would keep anyone they hired as a junior that does not fit the bill even at a reduced salary. They would have no qualms about firing him so I am more inclined to think that he is good enough for the job but they are trying to take advantage of him.

OP, I wouldn't blame you if you started slacking and spent your energy in getting a new job. After all, if they fire you from now on, they will have to give you 3 months' notice. Also do not forget, if you have worked in an EU country before moving to CH, it counts towards the 1 year RAV requests you to work.
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  #42  
Old 02.12.2018, 11:56
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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In the end, I had two job offers. One in London for a senior developer, and this one. After receiving this pay cut; they are both similar in terms of compensation.
I saw this now. I can completely understand your frustration at making the move here only to end up with false promises.

For someone with a masters degree 78K is definitely too low. They are trying to take advantage of you. In my experience so far in CH, I have seen a lot of bullying inside and outside work environments. Especially if you are a foreigner who do not knows the ropes.

Do not listen to others here who imply you are not good enough or 78K is good enough for you. It is too low and 100K is not a senior developer salary.
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  #43  
Old 02.12.2018, 12:49
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Or they could just have fired him with one week's notice. I guess taking a pay cut may be considered by some to be the lesser evil...
Maybe he just didn't cut the mustard as far as the employer was concerned and those were the options that were given. What else do you suggest they could have done? Continue to pay someone more than their worth? Why? After all, that is what the probation period is all about...Assessing whether someone fits the bill and inversely whether the company is what you expected it to be as an employer. It's a 2-way street.
I think you are being naive here. OP has qualifications, had gone through an interview process, if that's not enough to assess how much someone is worth, then the interviewer/boss is an idiot.

To me it sounds as if the boss has done a shitty financial planning and now realized that he needs to cut costs and is taking advantage of the OP to reach his budget. A salary offer is a salary offer. If in the end of the trial period the person considerably distanced from the evaluation during the interview process, then he/she should be fired.
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Old 02.12.2018, 13:55
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

In the company I work for (mid sized, 250 people), there were some rumors about a couple of people who were invited by the HR and given two pieces of paper, one of them being a new contract with a reduced salary (up to 30% in one case) and the other being a notice of termination. They were asked to choose which one they want to sign and sign it on the spot.

I was wondering, is this even legal? I am not talking about new hires, I am talking about people that have been working for the company for at least 1 year in one case and about 15 years in the second case.

Sure, maybe the 15 year guy was overpaid as he had signed his original contract 15 years ago when things were much better (and the company in a much better shape than today), but are the companies allowed to do something like that? This sounds like extortion...
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Old 02.12.2018, 13:56
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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In the company I work for (mid sized, 250 people), there were some rumors about a couple of people who were invited by the HR and given two pieces of paper, one of them being a new contract with a reduced salary (up to 30% in one case) and the other being a notice of termination. They were asked to choose which one they want to sign and sign it on the spot.

I was wondering, is this even legal? I am not talking about new hires, I am talking about people that have been working for the company for at least 1 year in one case and about 15 years in the second case.

Sure, maybe the 15 year guy was overpaid as he had signed his original contract 15 years ago when things were much better (and the company in a much better shape than today), but are the companies allowed to do something like that? This sounds like extortion...
They can simply refuse to sign either.

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  #46  
Old 02.12.2018, 14:00
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Maybe I did not phrase it correctly. The second document was informing them that they are being fired. So this one would apply, in case they didn't want to sign the salary reduction...
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Old 02.12.2018, 14:10
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Maybe I did not phrase it correctly. The second document was informing them that they are being fired. So this one would apply, in case they didn't want to sign the salary reduction...
Then your employer has done it correctly, and you have to move on
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Old 02.12.2018, 14:17
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Maybe I did not phrase it correctly. The second document was informing them that they are being fired. So this one would apply, in case they didn't want to sign the salary reduction...
You can always accept the lower offer and apply the appropriate effort reduction
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  #49  
Old 02.12.2018, 17:51
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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I am not going to be as productive as an experienced person, which is why I accepted a junior role. Juniors are typically supervised and are supported and directed by the senior engineers. Also, juniors are not delegated tasks which are advanced.

Yes, I am still grateful to have a job and learn. I was out of work for a year before, as like I say - I wanted to change my career and it was not easy to change.
What you expect is rather called internship. As a Junior you are expected to be quick and quickly productive in simple tasks and actively seeking rapid growth. You are also expected to handle advanced tasks when time permits with the implicit expectation that you'll show improvement in knowledge and quality of your deliverables. The effort spent on a daily work does not differ between Junior and Senior. As you progress you get more interesting work as the mundane work goes to the Juniors.

Nonetheless of the above, I bet the pay cut has nothing to do with your skills or engagement, it's all about the budget. I've been unemployed recently, as well as a few colleagues. It starts with the pressure to deliver more, which you can achieve only by undocumented overtime. When the numbers don't go up despite the increased work the company has to reduce the staff. In this light your company manage it better.

My honest advice based on experience, expect to work harder and more hours in Switzerland than in the UK. It's all about how you see it. If you really like doing your job and you don't mind having much less time for hobbies than it's worth to work in Switzerland.
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Old 02.12.2018, 18:31
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Then your employer has done it correctly, and you have to move on
Aren't you the one always moaning about your job being moved offshore and being about to be jobless and what not? Hope people will be more sympathetic when a similar thing happens to you.
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  #51  
Old 02.12.2018, 18:38
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Aren't you the one always moaning about your job being moved offshore and being about to be jobless and what not? Hope people will be more sympathetic when a similar thing happens to you.
I'm famous!

FYI, came here from UK about 30 years ago. Single Mom since about 20 years. Earn quite a bit in my work, and handle its ups and downs quite successfully

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Old 02.12.2018, 19:02
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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I saw this now. I can completely understand your frustration at making the move here only to end up with false promises.

For someone with a masters degree 78K is definitely too low. They are trying to take advantage of you. In my experience so far in CH, I have seen a lot of bullying inside and outside work environments. Especially if you are a foreigner who do not knows the ropes.

Do not listen to others here who imply you are not good enough or 78K is good enough for you. It is too low and 100K is not a senior developer salary.
Based on what? When you finish your masters then it's up to you what what kind of career path you choose. There's a lack of good people in this job market in Switzerland.
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Old 02.12.2018, 20:57
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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I think you are being naive here. OP has qualifications, had gone through an interview process, if that's not enough to assess how much someone is worth, then the interviewer/boss is an idiot.

To me it sounds as if the boss has done a shitty financial planning and now realized that he needs to cut costs and is taking advantage of the OP to reach his budget. A salary offer is a salary offer. If in the end of the trial period the person considerably distanced from the evaluation during the interview process, then he/she should be fired.
Well OP has the choice right? If he feels he is worth more then he should not accept the offer and look for something else. I agree that the employer does not sound great either, that's why I said it is a 2-way street. But, for now the OP only has two alternatives...take the deal or leave....
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Old 03.12.2018, 10:37
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Based on what? When you finish your masters then it's up to you what what kind of career path you choose. There's a lack of good people in this job market in Switzerland.
No-one is saying a masters degree alone is enough to prove one is capable.. The guy has a Masters degree, goes through the interview stage, is found good enough to be a junior developer and is hired from outside the CH and offered 100K which is pretty average considering he has had a career over a decade. Would they be able to hire someone from Switzerland for 78K with the same qualifications?
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Old 03.12.2018, 11:35
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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I have been living in Switzerland for two and a half years, and am from the UK. I have recently made a career change and am approaching the end of my probation period.

I work for a medium-size enterprise (a well known Swiss organisation). Yesterday, I was called to a meeting with my boss and HR, and asked to accept a 25% pay cut, or told that my contract will end in 7 days as I am still on probation.

The reason given was that my salary is close to the level of a Senior Software Developer. Before I was offered the position, I did a test which clearly demonstrated my technical ability.

I accepted my bosses proposal out of fear as I do not want to be unemployed. I explained that my salary was a reasonable number as I have a Bachelor and Masters degree in Computer Science and have further invested in myself in other relevant training courses; as well as other work experience that I have acquired in the IT industry over my twelve year career, which is also of value to the company.

I have worked very hard since joining the company and have delivered quality work until now with the support of my colleague, (my official mentor) as it is a junior level position.

Its very demotivating, and I can be reasonable but 22% is extortionate. I used to earn 100K and now my salary is 78K.
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No-one is saying a masters degree alone is enough to prove one is capable.. The guy has a Masters degree, goes through the interview stage, is found good enough to be a junior developer and is hired from outside the CH and offered 100K which is pretty average considering he has had a career over a decade. Would they be able to hire someone from Switzerland for 78K with the same qualifications?



He does mention a "Career change" does this mean a change of employer or a change of career i wonder.



Sure he has 10 or 12 years in the previous job and a Masters, for what that's worth today, but he has seemingly changed his job, so down the slippery pole you go.


He should try to negotiate something in between with a review in 6 months time as the other choice is only 70% of his previous Chf 100k
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Old 03.12.2018, 20:34
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Hi, change of employer and a different job that is related to my old line.

Thanks for the tips. Yes, it is unpleasant but you have to look at the positives when things like this happen. The positives are that I'm learning, and gaining valuable experience. I hope that the new year brings me fortune and prosperity.
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Old 04.12.2018, 09:18
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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No-one is saying a masters degree alone is enough to prove one is capable.. The guy has a Masters degree, goes through the interview stage, is found good enough to be a junior developer and is hired from outside the CH and offered 100K which is pretty average considering he has had a career over a decade. Would they be able to hire someone from Switzerland for 78K with the same qualifications?
He changed careers, and that usually to a large extent nullifies previous career experience (unless of course it is closely related or in large part directly applicable) and basically resets you to default graduate level. I know as I did it once too.

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Hi, change of employer and a different job that is related to my old line.

Thanks for the tips. Yes, it is unpleasant but you have to look at the positives when things like this happen. The positives are that I'm learning, and gaining valuable experience. I hope that the new year brings me fortune and prosperity.
Changing careers turned out to be the best decision I ever made and now 6 years later I am reaping the rewards. Sometimes investing in your future means temporarily starting over again and building the experience you need to find something better. Then repeat and rinse and keep learning and working hard until you get to where you want to be. Don't just think about next year, always try and plan a couple of years ahead and identify training that you need and identify a shortlist of well-regarded companies you want to work for. Setting those kinds of aspirations is a powerful motivator.
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Old 04.12.2018, 11:33
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Frankly I think this is just throwing money out of the window. A work contract is just that, it can be cancelled by both parties without a reason.
I have a large deposit on a bank statement that says you are wrong.

The purpose of getting the legal advice is to check whether the boss has broken terms in the contract. There are ways of getting anything done, but you have to do it properly. Bosses - especially very senior ones - are prone to take shortcuts without due care and attentions.

Employment protection is very weak in Switzerland, but they're damned hot on contract breach. Some companies are very keen on their reputation and will pay over the odds to keep you quiet if they get caught in a breach.
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Old 04.12.2018, 12:27
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Feel sorry for the OP, but based on what Iím reading in EF, I think the safest thing to do now is get a good Legal Insurance Cover to protect and demand oneís legal rights.
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Old 04.12.2018, 21:18
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Hi, isn't it too late for that now. If I stay a year we are talking about 15KCHF
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