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  #61  
Old 04.12.2018, 22:45
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

I would have rather told the company I appreciate the offer but the new salary is not competitive therefore ready to negotiate a new contract but only after the expiration of the probation period. If they fire you then just go RAV and protect your income. Negotiating a salary reduction during the probation period is purely a threatening option: do they need your skills or not? If they insist in making pressure then you should consider not to work for such a company any longer. Switzerland is struggling to get qualified experts from abroad, this is not India where you find cheap engineers at each and every corner. You can possibly find a better salary in Germany or France where the cost of living is a fraction.

Cheers,
Josh
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  #62  
Old 04.12.2018, 23:36
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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He changed careers, and that usually to a large extent nullifies previous career experience (unless of course it is closely related or in large part directly applicable) and basically resets you to default graduate level. I know as I did it once too.
Career change or not, the person was interviewed for the junior position and deemed fit to do the job. Not only that but he received an offer in the UK comparable to 78K in francs.

They have hired him knowing he was out of a job for a year and really wanted this new line of job and after he moved all the way from the UK to here, they thought "Hmm, maybe we can get him to accept a cut, let's try our luck".

Oh, one thing more: I have seen some pretty useless people (Swiss but I am sure there are others of different nationalities) here in IT who had no relevant experience or education and believe me they didn't start from zero. In fact they were in positions of responsibility.

I don't understand why everyone is defending the employer's behaviour. If someone tried to get out of a measly gym membership saying they only agreed by email or back out of a 30 CHF purchase on Ricardo you would all say "But a contract is a contract" and here the guy signs a contract for 100K and now if offered to accept 78K or become jobless and that is OK?
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  #63  
Old 04.12.2018, 23:40
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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If they fire you then just go RAV and protect your income. Negotiating a salary reduction during the probation period is purely a threatening option: do they need your skills or not?
Unfortunately, the OP was unemployed for a year before this job and does not meet the RAV entitlement condition.
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  #64  
Old 05.12.2018, 07:35
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Hi Kedi, are you sure?

Before I came to CH, I was working in Germany for 18 months and RAV counted my contributions taking into account that I also worked for an insurance company in Basel for another 18 months before I was out of work for a year.
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  #65  
Old 05.12.2018, 10:20
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Hi, isn't it too late for that now. If I stay a year we are talking about 15KCHF





psssssssst, 25% of Chf 100k is Chf 25k, not Chf 15k......


Maybe this is why ?
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  #66  
Old 05.12.2018, 10:23
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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I would have rather told the company I appreciate the offer but the new salary is not competitive therefore ready to negotiate a new contract but only after the expiration of the probation period. If they fire you then just go RAV and protect your income. Negotiating a salary reduction during the probation period is purely a threatening option: do they need your skills or not? If they insist in making pressure then you should consider not to work for such a company any longer. Switzerland is struggling to get qualified experts from abroad, this is not India where you find cheap engineers at each and every corner. You can possibly find a better salary in Germany or France where the cost of living is a fraction.

Cheers,
Josh

You can be let go with one weeks' notice at ANY time during the probationary period.....


Evidently they do not need his skills so much or they wouldn't have brought this up as we all know it is a very contentious subject


A better salary if Germany of France, i doubt it, sure cost of living is cheaper, but correspondingly, salaries are lower and taxes higher.
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  #67  
Old 05.12.2018, 16:35
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Hi Kedi, are you sure?

Before I came to CH, I was working in Germany for 18 months and RAV counted my contributions taking into account that I also worked for an insurance company in Basel for another 18 months before I was out of work for a year.
I must have misunderstood. I think the rule is to have worked 12 months in the last 2 years. So you might still be entitled. It's best to ask RAV at any case.
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  #68  
Old 05.12.2018, 16:37
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Career change or not, the person was interviewed for the junior position and deemed fit to do the job. Not only that but he received an offer in the UK comparable to 78K in francs.

They have hired him knowing he was out of a job for a year and really wanted this new line of job and after he moved all the way from the UK to here, they thought "Hmm, maybe we can get him to accept a cut, let's try our luck".

Oh, one thing more: I have seen some pretty useless people (Swiss but I am sure there are others of different nationalities) here in IT who had no relevant experience or education and believe me they didn't start from zero. In fact they were in positions of responsibility.

I don't understand why everyone is defending the employer's behaviour. If someone tried to get out of a measly gym membership saying they only agreed by email or back out of a 30 CHF purchase on Ricardo you would all say "But a contract is a contract" and here the guy signs a contract for 100K and now if offered to accept 78K or become jobless and that is OK?
I agree 100% with you. I can't understand why there are people here who consider acceptable the employer behavior. I am one that prefer much more the Swiss labor model than those old, slow, and counterproductive French/Italian labor laws, but here we have a case where the boss is, at least in my eyes, acting dishonestly.
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  #69  
Old 05.12.2018, 20:37
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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psssssssst, 25% of Chf 100k is Chf 25k, not Chf 15k......


Maybe this is why ?
Maybe... he talks about his net loss of income, hmm?
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  #70  
Old 05.12.2018, 21:19
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Hi, I was looking at the projection over the course of the first year only, as it has not come into effect yet.
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  #71  
Old 05.12.2018, 21:21
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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I must have misunderstood. I think the rule is to have worked 12 months in the last 2 years. So you might still be entitled. It's best to ask RAV at any case.
Either way, they have not done me any favours, as if I do have to go to RAV, I will suffer on a much lower income all thanks to this company.
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  #72  
Old 05.12.2018, 21:29
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Either way, they have not done me any favours, as if I do have to go to RAV, I will suffer on a much lower income all thanks to this company.
Not that much IŽd reckon as they look at your income from the last 12/24 months.
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  #73  
Old 05.12.2018, 21:32
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Maybe... he talks about his net loss of income, hmm?
whatever, i can only take the title of the thread as a basis and even if he is talking about net loss........Chf 10k for his size salary as a difference is rather a lot, so i tend to think we are on gross salary anyway !
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  #74  
Old 05.12.2018, 23:42
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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I am not going to be as productive as an experienced person, which is why I accepted a junior role. Juniors are typically supervised and are supported and directed by the senior engineers. Also, juniors are not delegated tasks which are advanced.

Yes, I am still grateful to have a job and learn. I was out of work for a year before, as like I say - I wanted to change my career and it was not easy to change.

In the end, I had two job offers. One in London for a senior developer, and this one. After receiving this pay cut; they are both similar in terms of compensation.

It's not nice. In all my career in over a decade, this has never happened to me before. And generally speaking the Swiss are always boasting about their wealth, so why so much austerity.
I would start looking now.

Aim to work there for a year (max) and move on.

78k/year is on the very low end for a software eng job in Zurich.
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  #75  
Old 06.12.2018, 08:33
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Either way, they have not done me any favours, as if I do have to go to RAV, I will suffer on a much lower income all thanks to this company.
Just accept the job to get a foothold in Switzerland and then find a new one... plenty of people do the same
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  #76  
Old 06.12.2018, 09:52
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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In the company I work for (mid sized, 250 people), there were some rumors about a couple of people who were invited by the HR and given two pieces of paper, one of them being a new contract with a reduced salary (up to 30% in one case) and the other being a notice of termination. They were asked to choose which one they want to sign and sign it on the spot.

I was wondering, is this even legal? I am not talking about new hires, I am talking about people that have been working for the company for at least 1 year in one case and about 15 years in the second case.

Sure, maybe the 15 year guy was overpaid as he had signed his original contract 15 years ago when things were much better (and the company in a much better shape than today), but are the companies allowed to do something like that? This sounds like extortion...
Usually they find a reason to fire those people whom they find excessively expensive.. I doubt they'll try to lower the salary even if this is the real reason behind (i.e. I doubt it is legal unless other circumstances change). It's a question of (direct) management, not HR. Check out if those persons work in a project that has new managers.... ;-)
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  #77  
Old 06.12.2018, 14:05
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Either way, they have not done me any favours, as if I do have to go to RAV, I will suffer on a much lower income all thanks to this company.
I think you have been dealt with unfairly. But try to move on: Look for a new job (don't disclose your current salary in the interview). Make up a good sounding excuse for wanting to change jobs (don't mention the reduced salary)
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Old 06.12.2018, 21:04
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

I feel exploited Kedi. It's no different to stealing. Why not disclose the details about the pay cut to prospective employers? If not, then what should I say if they asked why do you want to leave so soon?
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  #79  
Old 06.12.2018, 21:22
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Not that much IŽd reckon as they look at your income from the last 12/24 months.
6 months, 12 if it's to your advantage.

Tom
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Old 06.12.2018, 21:24
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Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

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Frankly I think this is just throwing money out of the window. A work contract is just that, it can be cancelled by both parties without a reason.

When you make such a proposal, you expect that the employee will go. So you make it only in order not to fire but to leave the chance to the employee to quit. The primary reason here is that the reduction by 25% is around what he would get from RAV. As he is new in Switzerland, he would get no RAV. From this perspective the proposal reads this way: "we don't want to keep you, so look for a new job as soon as possible. Knowing that you don't get any RAV, we will keep you for some time with a RAV-like contribution in order to compensate for the trouble".

Probably the OP will be fired within 1 year if he doesn't quit.
As per the original post, I've lived in Switzerland for 2.5 years. If they fire me then I will go to a lawyer, because they're thieves.
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