Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 06.12.2018, 21:28
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 24,834
Groaned at 1,444 Times in 1,114 Posts
Thanked 28,629 Times in 13,687 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
As per the original post, I've lived in Switzerland for 2.5 years. If they fire me then I will go to a lawyer, because they're thieves.
What do you expect a lawyer to be able to do?

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 06.12.2018, 21:30
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Zurich
Posts: 17
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
PeterSoliman has no particular reputation at present
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
Usually they find a reason to fire those people whom they find excessively expensive.. I doubt they'll try to lower the salary even if this is the real reason behind (i.e. I doubt it is legal unless other circumstances change). It's a question of (direct) management, not HR. Check out if those persons work in a project that has new managers.... ;-)
Hi, Im not quite sure what you mean?
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 06.12.2018, 21:32
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Zurich
Posts: 17
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
PeterSoliman has no particular reputation at present
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
What do you expect a lawyer to be able to do?

Tom
Find a breach in the contract. They can't cut my salary that drastically without reason. The fact of the matter is I have delivered quality work until now, on time like my peers. And I am the most qualified there.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank PeterSoliman for this useful post:
  #84  
Old 06.12.2018, 21:41
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 24,834
Groaned at 1,444 Times in 1,114 Posts
Thanked 28,629 Times in 13,687 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

They can fire you for any reason they like, or for no reason at all.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #85  
Old 07.12.2018, 10:09
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 6,124
Groaned at 778 Times in 522 Posts
Thanked 7,366 Times in 3,498 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
Find a breach in the contract. They can't cut my salary that drastically without reason. The fact of the matter is I have delivered quality work until now, on time like my peers. And I am the most qualified there.



and in the contract, read the paragraph that includes the probationary period clause........
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Today only for this useful post:
  #86  
Old 07.12.2018, 10:16
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,088
Groaned at 670 Times in 503 Posts
Thanked 14,901 Times in 5,827 Posts
Richdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond reputeRichdog has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
Find a breach in the contract. They can't cut my salary that drastically without reason. The fact of the matter is I have delivered quality work until now, on time like my peers. And I am the most qualified there.
But you signed and accepted the pay cut. You didn't fight it. Legally (and I am of course no expert) I would say that you don't have a leg to stand on unless they literally forced you to sign?

Last edited by Richdog; 07.12.2018 at 10:32.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Richdog for this useful post:
  #87  
Old 07.12.2018, 10:17
roegner's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,627
Groaned at 276 Times in 225 Posts
Thanked 8,168 Times in 4,111 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
Find a breach in the contract. They can't cut my salary that drastically without reason. The fact of the matter is I have delivered quality work until now, on time like my peers. And I am the most qualified there.
They seem to think differently and you accepted the deal?
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 07.12.2018, 10:20
Tilia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,655
Groaned at 77 Times in 42 Posts
Thanked 2,448 Times in 1,115 Posts
Tilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Not fully true. They always have to give a reason upon request - OR 335 Abs 2.

Depending on reason given, there may be a case for indemnification. Very unlikely though as most companies knows how to navigate this.

Quote:
View Post
They can fire you for any reason they like, or for no reason at all.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tilia for this useful post:
  #89  
Old 07.12.2018, 10:29
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 7,294
Groaned at 238 Times in 189 Posts
Thanked 9,368 Times in 5,022 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
Hi, Im not quite sure what you mean?
I replied to this post. :-) They can't force you to take a pay cut if you didn't change positions e.g. you went from a software developer position to an assistant&secretary job or something. I doubt that there are companies that would risk doing this silly stuff - if they wanted to cut costs they'd simply fire you.

Quote:
View Post
In the company I work for (mid sized, 250 people), there were some rumors about a couple of people who were invited by the HR and given two pieces of paper, one of them being a new contract with a reduced salary (up to 30% in one case) and the other being a notice of termination. They were asked to choose which one they want to sign and sign it on the spot.

I was wondering, is this even legal? I am not talking about new hires, I am talking about people that have been working for the company for at least 1 year in one case and about 15 years in the second case.

Sure, maybe the 15 year guy was overpaid as he had signed his original contract 15 years ago when things were much better (and the company in a much better shape than today), but are the companies allowed to do something like that? This sounds like extortion...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #90  
Old 07.12.2018, 10:38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 497
Groaned at 79 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 451 Times in 229 Posts
Kedi is considered knowledgeableKedi is considered knowledgeableKedi is considered knowledgeable
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
. Why not disclose the details about the pay cut to prospective employers? If not, then what should I say if they asked why do you want to leave so soon?
I believe in being honest and open in interviews. But I have found out over the years that your honesty can be detrimental to you.

I think that leaving right after the probation period will raise questions for the prospective employers. Thye might question your loyalty and perseverance if you don't have a good excuse. But if you tell them about the pay cut, they might think you were not good enough for the job and undeserving of the 100K rather than the fact that the employer was trying to exploit you. Don't you think so?

After years of interview experience I would personally try to disclose as little as possible about the company and myself. Try to find a reason that would sound good for you without representing the company in a bad light.

Also, before going to a lawyer, can you not go higher up in the hierarchy and talk to them? Talk to your manager's manager for example. Maybe they have decency enough to question your manager's behaviour? I wouldn't go to the HR as they tend to be useless in protecting the employees and the HR person was there anyway.

But if you decide to escalate this, be ready to face the same attitude up in the hierarchy to save yourself more heartache.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Kedi for this useful post:
  #91  
Old 07.12.2018, 10:51
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 10,466
Groaned at 160 Times in 139 Posts
Thanked 14,724 Times in 5,970 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
They can fire you for any reason they like, or for no reason at all.

Tom
Quote:
View Post
Not fully true. They always have to give a reason upon request - OR 335 Abs 2.

Depending on reason given, there may be a case for indemnification. Very unlikely though as most companies knows how to navigate this.
Furthermore, the employer must follow the correct procedures. In the OP's case, the legally mandated notice period (7 days) for termination of current contract, followed by a new contract at the lower rate. Failure to do this can make the employer liable for contract breach.

Most companies know how to do this, but not all managers do.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #92  
Old 07.12.2018, 11:49
meister's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 317
Groaned at 38 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 195 Times in 97 Posts
meister has made some interesting contributions
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
I believe in being honest and open in interviews. But I have found out over the years that your honesty can be detrimental to you.

I think that leaving right after the probation period will raise questions for the prospective employers. Thye might question your loyalty and perseverance if you don't have a good excuse. But if you tell them about the pay cut, they might think you were not good enough for the job and undeserving of the 100K rather than the fact that the employer was trying to exploit you. Don't you think so?

After years of interview experience I would personally try to disclose as little as possible about the company and myself. Try to find a reason that would sound good for you without representing the company in a bad light.

Also, before going to a lawyer, can you not go higher up in the hierarchy and talk to them? Talk to your manager's manager for example. Maybe they have decency enough to question your manager's behaviour? I wouldn't go to the HR as they tend to be useless in protecting the employees and the HR person was there anyway.

But if you decide to escalate this, be ready to face the same attitude up in the hierarchy to save yourself more heartache.
Never go over your manager as this will mean you can kiss goodbye to your job. These decisions are always agreed in advance with senior managers. I wouldn’t keep an employee who goes over my head. Remember, that your manager can can sack you anytime and this is legally protected in Switzerland without having to give you any severance package. Welcome to Switzerland, you’ve just been Switzerlanded.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank meister for this useful post:
  #93  
Old 07.12.2018, 12:15
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 24,834
Groaned at 1,444 Times in 1,114 Posts
Thanked 28,629 Times in 13,687 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
They always have to give a reason upon request.
'We have no money due to xxx' is a reason.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #94  
Old 07.12.2018, 14:25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 497
Groaned at 79 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 451 Times in 229 Posts
Kedi is considered knowledgeableKedi is considered knowledgeableKedi is considered knowledgeable
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
Never go over your manager as this will mean you can kiss goodbye to your job. These decisions are always agreed in advance with senior managers. I wouldn’t keep an employee who goes over my head. Remember, that your manager can can sack you anytime and this is legally protected in Switzerland without having to give you any severance package. Welcome to Switzerland, you’ve just been Switzerlanded.
I don't think this is "going over your manager". This is "escalating". How can he be sure the decisions are agreed in advance with senior managers without escalating it? Maybe the manager is telling one story to the guy and another to his superior?

If nothing is ever escalated in a company, how can problems with resolved? I think if you, as manager are treating people unfairly, you should fully expect people to go over your head and firing someone who you think is "going over your head" is certainly not fair.

I do agree that escalating might mean the end of his employment there but surely it is a better alternative to involving a lawyer?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Kedi for this useful post:
  #95  
Old 07.12.2018, 14:40
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 24,834
Groaned at 1,444 Times in 1,114 Posts
Thanked 28,629 Times in 13,687 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
Never go over your manager.
Assuming that you have one.

The last time that I had a manager was 40 years ago at McDonalds.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 07.12.2018, 14:49
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 6,124
Groaned at 778 Times in 522 Posts
Thanked 7,366 Times in 3,498 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
Assuming that you have one.

The last time that I had a manager was 40 years ago at McDonalds.

Tom



....and it's been downhill ever since ?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Today only for this useful post:
This user groans at Today only for this post:
  #97  
Old 07.12.2018, 15:13
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 12,543
Groaned at 383 Times in 304 Posts
Thanked 17,311 Times in 7,157 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
Never go over your manager as this will mean you can kiss goodbye to your job. These decisions are always agreed in advance with senior managers. I wouldn’t keep an employee who goes over my head.
Are you really that insecure?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
This user groans at Tom1234 for this post:
  #98  
Old 07.12.2018, 17:15
meister's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 317
Groaned at 38 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 195 Times in 97 Posts
meister has made some interesting contributions
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
I don't think this is "going over your manager". This is "escalating". How can he be sure the decisions are agreed in advance with senior managers without escalating it? Maybe the manager is telling one story to the guy and another to his superior?

If nothing is ever escalated in a company, how can problems with resolved? I think if you, as manager are treating people unfairly, you should fully expect people to go over your head and firing someone who you think is "going over your head" is certainly not fair.

I do agree that escalating might mean the end of his employment there but surely it is a better alternative to involving a lawyer?
The fact that the HR was involved in the process is a pretty big clue that this is done above board.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank meister for this useful post:
  #99  
Old 07.12.2018, 17:19
meister's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 317
Groaned at 38 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 195 Times in 97 Posts
meister has made some interesting contributions
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Quote:
View Post
Are you really that insecure?
Nothing to do with insecurity, but once someone goes over your head, then it it obvious that there is no longer any mutual relationship left and the Senior execs will always side with the manager unless he is doing something that is illegal.

The most important relation you have at work is with your immediate line manager. Once that is broken then kiss the job goodbye.
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 09.12.2018, 18:42
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 6,124
Groaned at 778 Times in 522 Posts
Thanked 7,366 Times in 3,498 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period

Sounds like the guy is worth no where near the salary he got given at the start, his employers worked this out and cut his salary.


Choices are limited :


1) Accept
2) Leave

Last edited by Today only; 09.12.2018 at 21:29.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Today only for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Extension of Probation Period GAizzie Employment 26 05.02.2018 21:39
notice period at the end of the contract? MihaiSV Insurance 10 15.12.2017 09:31
Notice period at the end of the first 12 months Zuckerman Employment 2 30.11.2015 12:31
Pregnant written off sick 50% and being forced to take my leave before the birth Delly Employment 2 03.03.2011 12:00
Notice period & forced out of my job Tele - Mummy Employment 32 19.10.2009 12:13


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0