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06.12.2018, 20:28
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| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: | |  | | | As per the original post, I've lived in Switzerland for 2.5 years. If they fire me then I will go to a lawyer, because they're thieves. | | | | | What do you expect a lawyer to be able to do?
Tom
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06.12.2018, 20:30
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| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: | |  | | | Usually they find a reason to fire those people whom they find excessively expensive.. I doubt they'll try to lower the salary even if this is the real reason behind (i.e. I doubt it is legal unless other circumstances change). It's a question of (direct) management, not HR. Check out if those persons work in a project that has new managers.... ;-) | | | | | Hi, Im not quite sure what you mean?
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06.12.2018, 20:32
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| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: | |  | | | What do you expect a lawyer to be able to do? 
Tom | | | | | Find a breach in the contract. They can't cut my salary that drastically without reason. The fact of the matter is I have delivered quality work until now, on time like my peers. And I am the most qualified there.
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06.12.2018, 20:41
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| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period
They can fire you for any reason they like, or for no reason at all.
Tom
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07.12.2018, 09:09
| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: | |  | | | Find a breach in the contract. They can't cut my salary that drastically without reason. The fact of the matter is I have delivered quality work until now, on time like my peers. And I am the most qualified there. | | | | |
and in the contract, read the paragraph that includes the probationary period clause........
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07.12.2018, 09:16
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| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: | |  | | | Find a breach in the contract. They can't cut my salary that drastically without reason. The fact of the matter is I have delivered quality work until now, on time like my peers. And I am the most qualified there. | | | | | But you signed and accepted the pay cut. You didn't fight it. Legally (and I am of course no expert) I would say that you don't have a leg to stand on unless they literally forced you to sign?
Last edited by Chuff; 07.12.2018 at 09:32.
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07.12.2018, 09:17
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| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: | |  | | | Find a breach in the contract. They can't cut my salary that drastically without reason. The fact of the matter is I have delivered quality work until now, on time like my peers. And I am the most qualified there. | | | | | They seem to think differently and you accepted the deal?
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07.12.2018, 09:20
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| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period
Not fully true. They always have to give a reason upon request - OR 335 Abs 2.
Depending on reason given, there may be a case for indemnification. Very unlikely though as most companies knows how to navigate this. | Quote: | |  | | | They can fire you for any reason they like, or for no reason at all. 
Tom | | | | | | The following 3 users would like to thank Tilia for this useful post: | | 
07.12.2018, 09:29
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| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: | |  | | | Hi, Im not quite sure what you mean? | | | | | I replied to this post. :-) They can't force you to take a pay cut if you didn't change positions e.g. you went from a software developer position to an assistant&secretary job or something. I doubt that there are companies that would risk doing this silly stuff - if they wanted to cut costs they'd simply fire you. | Quote: | |  | | | In the company I work for (mid sized, 250 people), there were some rumors about a couple of people who were invited by the HR and given two pieces of paper, one of them being a new contract with a reduced salary (up to 30% in one case) and the other being a notice of termination. They were asked to choose which one they want to sign and sign it on the spot.
I was wondering, is this even legal? I am not talking about new hires, I am talking about people that have been working for the company for at least 1 year in one case and about 15 years in the second case.
Sure, maybe the 15 year guy was overpaid as he had signed his original contract 15 years ago when things were much better (and the company in a much better shape than today), but are the companies allowed to do something like that? This sounds like extortion... | | | | | | This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post: | | 
07.12.2018, 09:38
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| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: | |  | | | . Why not disclose the details about the pay cut to prospective employers? If not, then what should I say if they asked why do you want to leave so soon? | | | | | I believe in being honest and open in interviews. But I have found out over the years that your honesty can be detrimental to you.
I think that leaving right after the probation period will raise questions for the prospective employers. Thye might question your loyalty and perseverance if you don't have a good excuse. But if you tell them about the pay cut, they might think you were not good enough for the job and undeserving of the 100K rather than the fact that the employer was trying to exploit you. Don't you think so?
After years of interview experience I would personally try to disclose as little as possible about the company and myself. Try to find a reason that would sound good for you without representing the company in a bad light.
Also, before going to a lawyer, can you not go higher up in the hierarchy and talk to them? Talk to your manager's manager for example. Maybe they have decency enough to question your manager's behaviour? I wouldn't go to the HR as they tend to be useless in protecting the employees and the HR person was there anyway.
But if you decide to escalate this, be ready to face the same attitude up in the hierarchy to save yourself more heartache.
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07.12.2018, 09:51
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| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: | |  | | | They can fire you for any reason they like, or for no reason at all. 
Tom | | | | | | Quote: | |  | | | Not fully true. They always have to give a reason upon request - OR 335 Abs 2.
Depending on reason given, there may be a case for indemnification. Very unlikely though as most companies knows how to navigate this. | | | | | Furthermore, the employer must follow the correct procedures. In the OP's case, the legally mandated notice period (7 days) for termination of current contract, followed by a new contract at the lower rate. Failure to do this can make the employer liable for contract breach.
Most companies know how to do this, but not all managers do.
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07.12.2018, 10:49
| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: | |  | | | I believe in being honest and open in interviews. But I have found out over the years that your honesty can be detrimental to you.
I think that leaving right after the probation period will raise questions for the prospective employers. Thye might question your loyalty and perseverance if you don't have a good excuse. But if you tell them about the pay cut, they might think you were not good enough for the job and undeserving of the 100K rather than the fact that the employer was trying to exploit you. Don't you think so?
After years of interview experience I would personally try to disclose as little as possible about the company and myself. Try to find a reason that would sound good for you without representing the company in a bad light.
Also, before going to a lawyer, can you not go higher up in the hierarchy and talk to them? Talk to your manager's manager for example. Maybe they have decency enough to question your manager's behaviour? I wouldn't go to the HR as they tend to be useless in protecting the employees and the HR person was there anyway.
But if you decide to escalate this, be ready to face the same attitude up in the hierarchy to save yourself more heartache. | | | | | Never go over your manager as this will mean you can kiss goodbye to your job. These decisions are always agreed in advance with senior managers. I wouldn’t keep an employee who goes over my head. Remember, that your manager can can sack you anytime and this is legally protected in Switzerland without having to give you any severance package. Welcome to Switzerland, you’ve just been Switzerlanded.
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07.12.2018, 11:15
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| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: | |  | | | They always have to give a reason upon request. | | | | | 'We have no money due to xxx' is a reason.
Tom
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07.12.2018, 13:25
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| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: |  | | | Never go over your manager as this will mean you can kiss goodbye to your job. These decisions are always agreed in advance with senior managers. I wouldn’t keep an employee who goes over my head. Remember, that your manager can can sack you anytime and this is legally protected in Switzerland without having to give you any severance package. Welcome to Switzerland, you’ve just been Switzerlanded. | | | | | I don't think this is "going over your manager". This is "escalating". How can he be sure the decisions are agreed in advance with senior managers without escalating it? Maybe the manager is telling one story to the guy and another to his superior?
If nothing is ever escalated in a company, how can problems with resolved? I think if you, as manager are treating people unfairly, you should fully expect people to go over your head and firing someone who you think is "going over your head" is certainly not fair.
I do agree that escalating might mean the end of his employment there but surely it is a better alternative to involving a lawyer?
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07.12.2018, 13:40
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| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: |  | | | Never go over your manager. | | | | | Assuming that you have one.
The last time that I had a manager was 40 years ago at McDonalds.
Tom
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07.12.2018, 13:49
| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: | |  | | | Assuming that you have one. 
The last time that I had a manager was 40 years ago at McDonalds. 
Tom | | | | |
....and it's been downhill ever since ? | The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post: | | This user groans at for this post: | | 
07.12.2018, 14:13
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| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: |  | | | Never go over your manager as this will mean you can kiss goodbye to your job. These decisions are always agreed in advance with senior managers. I wouldn’t keep an employee who goes over my head. | | | | | Are you really that insecure?
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07.12.2018, 16:15
| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: | |  | | | I don't think this is "going over your manager". This is "escalating". How can he be sure the decisions are agreed in advance with senior managers without escalating it? Maybe the manager is telling one story to the guy and another to his superior?
If nothing is ever escalated in a company, how can problems with resolved? I think if you, as manager are treating people unfairly, you should fully expect people to go over your head and firing someone who you think is "going over your head" is certainly not fair.
I do agree that escalating might mean the end of his employment there but surely it is a better alternative to involving a lawyer? | | | | | The fact that the HR was involved in the process is a pretty big clue that this is done above board.
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07.12.2018, 16:19
| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period | Quote: | |  | | | Are you really that insecure? | | | | | Nothing to do with insecurity, but once someone goes over your head, then it it obvious that there is no longer any mutual relationship left and the Senior execs will always side with the manager unless he is doing something that is illegal.
The most important relation you have at work is with your immediate line manager. Once that is broken then kiss the job goodbye.
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09.12.2018, 17:42
| | Re: Forced to take a 25% paycut at the end of my probation period
Sounds like the guy is worth no where near the salary he got given at the start, his employers worked this out and cut his salary.
Choices are limited :
1) Accept
2) Leave
Last edited by Today only; 09.12.2018 at 20:29.
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