Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 17.12.2018, 09:21
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,594
Groaned at 290 Times in 247 Posts
Thanked 21,669 Times in 7,896 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

Quote:
View Post
Come on, just because you had bad luck, not everyone has your experience....

I have been here for some time and yes, despite being let go as well, I was treated fairly at that time.


But he isn't wrong... there is no other place in Europe with similarly low employee rights. I know a very senior manager of a Swiss company who was sent abroad. For pension reasons did he negotiate to keep his Swiss contract... and found himself kicked out on the spot a year later - something entirely impossible if he had taken a local EU contract.


So the bottom line in Switzerland is really simple: You are as an individual in a very weak legal position. So you need to trust any potential employer. A lot. Because they can totally screw you without you having any chance to fight back and get a decent settlement.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 17.12.2018, 11:04
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Regensdorf
Posts: 47
Groaned at 7 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 55 Times in 26 Posts
gugguseli is considered knowledgeablegugguseli is considered knowledgeablegugguseli is considered knowledgeable
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

In my experience, such checks happen with US firms.
My checks were always longer than one month. If your employment history is long or if previous firms were sold / taken over, you can be sure that the records may be lost.
For instance, one of my older firms had me as a marketing assistant rather than fund manager. Took me one month and many phone calls to correct.

Also, rules differ a lot depending on countries. In France, they cannot ask much. In the UK, they can ask for anything, like seeing your bank account statements, etc.

I felt like a criminal during this process even if I had nothing to hide.

So do not resign before the all clear.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank gugguseli for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 17.12.2018, 11:25
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Basel Area
Posts: 92
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 76 Times in 42 Posts
The ScottiCH One has earned some respectThe ScottiCH One has earned some respect
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

I see a lot of negative perceptions of this here....maybe I'm the delusional one or maybe it's a generational thing, but to me this is totally normal and part and parcel of holding positions in regulated environments.

I personally would not let a good career move slip away just for this. But maybe, OP, you are in a better place than me - well done

Also I see people using the US as a comparison. In my experience it is pretty standard in the US to get background-/drug-/criminal-record-checked even before receiving an offer. I much prefer the EU/Swiss way - e.g. going through a screening process only after I have seen and accepted the employment offer and have resigned from my current employer.


Quote:
View Post
It's not a binding offer so should be taken with a pinch of salt, there is not even a start date given........

Clearly not worth resigning until a start date is confirmed.
OP said in post #1 the start date is 1st Feb?


Quote:
View Post
I decided to reject the offer but not to withdraw my consent for screening. I will propose they finalize the screening and come back to me in 6 months or so if they are still interested, with a proper contract. I won’t hold my breath that it happens
That seems like the worst of both worlds to me - get screened but possibly have no job at the end of the process. Anyway if you reject the offer they will most likely cease the screening then just re-start it if in the future you both agree to enter in to a new employment contract.

Also, a rejected offer puts the onus on them and if there was a 2nd/3rd place candidate they may just decide to move on to him/her if less hassle. Clearly in your case this is not an issue - lucky you

May I ask why not just accept the offer but refuse to sign the screening consent form? Would be interesting to see how they respond.

If they want you that badly they will surely push the start date back to allow you the ability to resign from your current role only after you received confirmation that you have 'passed' the check.

Or on the other hand they may think you have something to hide by putting up such a fuss....
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 17.12.2018, 11:42
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 17,506
Groaned at 297 Times in 245 Posts
Thanked 16,517 Times in 9,126 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

Quote:
View Post

OP said in post #1 the start date is 1st Feb?
The start date was not guaranteed, salary was not guaranteed from that date so clearly not contractually binding on BOTH parties. If salary was guaranteed for 3 months regardless of starting work, then it would have been a valid start date.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 17.12.2018, 11:51
Elu Elu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Olten
Posts: 292
Groaned at 14 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 457 Times in 214 Posts
Elu has a reputation beyond reputeElu has a reputation beyond reputeElu has a reputation beyond reputeElu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

Quote:
View Post
I am working in CH pharma for years and it always was as you say — copy of diplomas, references. I also never seen anything like this, not even sure it’s legal. This could be just an exception, one company’s practices.
Are you going to work in the lab?
Sure they don't just ment the usual medical check up?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 17.12.2018, 12:58
HIAO's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Bellevue
Posts: 1,114
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 2,795 Times in 773 Posts
HIAO has a reputation beyond reputeHIAO has a reputation beyond reputeHIAO has a reputation beyond reputeHIAO has a reputation beyond reputeHIAO has a reputation beyond reputeHIAO has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

When two parties enter into a (hopefully!) long-term relationship, involving significant investment, it's better that employer and employee do their due diligence first.

Interviews and taking references have never been an accurate predictor of future performance or conduct.

Pre-employment checks come in many forms, with different levels of checks that are very different by hierarchy, responsibilities of the role and industry.

In many cases, this includes a social media and online reputation search.

In the OP's case, the potential employer is upfront about the requirement, and asked for consent. This is not unlawful.

However, by adding unhelpful conditions, the OP is unwilling, with good reason, to accept the offer.

I'm sure that before rejecting this offer, the OP will have asked the employer for details of exactly what the checks cover, what's the longest time the checks have taken for a candidate, what would constitute a failure, and what is the process if they dispute the outcome of a check.

Given employer fear of the cost and reputational damage that comes from hiring sexual harassers, bullies and dishonest people, these kinds of checks will become the norm for large employers in the next 5 - 8 years, even in Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 17.12.2018, 13:30
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 215
Groaned at 14 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 447 Times in 265 Posts
leonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

Thank you very much for your replies! I will try to answer the questions.
Consent has a part which states that withdrawal of it will immediately end the hiring process. I don’t care if I get screened and wouldn’t get the job, if they are willing to pay for my screening and not hire me it is up to them. Consent allows me to see the collected data and also to request deletion of the data within 30 days in case of unsuccessful application. I will do that if I have to.

The job is not in the lab but in the office, the same one that I had for the last many years. I am lucky to have a job now and don’t have to leave. Going to this other company would be a good career move if the company would be taking me seriously. I guess their hiring process will indicate just that.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 17.12.2018, 13:47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Zurich
Posts: 332
Groaned at 57 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 218 Times in 119 Posts
Dandy is considered unworthyDandy is considered unworthyDandy is considered unworthy
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

Quote:
View Post
The start date was not guaranteed, salary was not guaranteed from that date so clearly not contractually binding on BOTH parties. If salary was guaranteed for 3 months regardless of starting work, then it would have been a valid start date.
"not" contractually binding on BOTH parties. In Switzerland, even if there is no contract and no guaranteed salary and somebody only works for a probation- in the end the work has to be paid by the employer.

Swiss law:

Wird keine Unentgeltlichkeit vor dem Probeeinsatz verabredet, wird das Zustandekommen eines Arbeitsverhältnisses vermutet. Diesfalls hat der Arbeitgeber dem Arbeitnehmer den Lohn zu entrichten, der verabredet, üblich oder durch Normalarbeitsvertrag oder Gesamtarbeitsvertrag bestimmt ist (OR 322 Abs. 1).

So only in the case when the employee explicitly agreed to work for free then no salary is owed

see also:

https://www.law-news.ch/2018/05/arbe...emessener-lohn

You can always arraign an employer, in Switzerland it is the "Arbeitsgericht" and every canton has one. Up to CHF 30000 amount of dispute it is at no cost and you do not need a lawyer to bring your case in court.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 17.12.2018, 15:11
szhjcn's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,743
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 369 Times in 296 Posts
szhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of manyszhjcn has earned the respect of many
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

Every job I have had in the last 5 years have required at least a criminal record extract. Here that is easy to order on-line with a 20chf fee.

Other jobs have also asked for my debt record, which again is easily obtained here from the Gemeinde for a small fee.

UBS introduced a new screening solution a few years ago using a third party company who look at everything including education certificates/diplomas etc..
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank szhjcn for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 17.12.2018, 15:41
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 4,095
Groaned at 101 Times in 82 Posts
Thanked 6,625 Times in 2,527 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

Quote:
View Post
Welcome to Switzerland. Be warned, they can do anything to you and get away with it. It happens all the time in this country.
Bullsh*. Background screenings have been standard m.o. elsewhere for YEARS if not decades. This is simply yet another (American) approach that has found its way into Switzerland.

And occasionally, there's good reason for it. Criminal records are the one part, but another are academic credentials, as the world of education has become such an utter mess. It's become easy to fake everything and you can literally buy diplomas off Ebay and Groupon, so it's only logical some companies would like some confirmation that the candidates are actually legit.

That said, I'm fairly opposed to social media background checks and have personally seen highly strange conclusions from them in the hiring process, but whether I think that's ok or not doesn't matter.

That said though, the process in this case is highly unusual - checks are done pre-offer and not post-offer - and I would have done the same as OP and rejected for the time being.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 18.12.2018, 22:20
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 215
Groaned at 14 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 447 Times in 265 Posts
leonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond reputeleonie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

I have rejected the offer. The company wanted me to sign another consent and I have withdrawn everything altogether and told them to go f*** themselves. Please PM me if interested in the name of the company or their third party information collector.

They asked me to sign that “I am aware that it may be necessary for the information given in this application to be transferred to countries outside the EEA, which may have less comprehensive data protection legislation than the UK.”

Where would that be?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 19.12.2018, 08:15
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 17,506
Groaned at 297 Times in 245 Posts
Thanked 16,517 Times in 9,126 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

Quote:
View Post
where would that be?
USA & pretty much anywhere non EU
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 08.02.2020, 02:16
Mr.Maquiavelo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 311
Groaned at 68 Times in 31 Posts
Thanked 231 Times in 113 Posts
Mr.Maquiavelo has made some interesting contributions
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

When I worked for CS the first time, they sent me to a mandatory medical check up where the Dr. was required to touch my nuts to see whether they were real and confirm the gender at birth. Should they have wanted to make a prostate check I would have definitely chosen another job ...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Mr.Maquiavelo for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at Mr.Maquiavelo for this post:
  #34  
Old 08.02.2020, 12:18
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Basel
Posts: 139
Groaned at 32 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 35 Times in 24 Posts
kamiyu is considered unworthykamiyu is considered unworthykamiyu is considered unworthy
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

Quote:
View Post
When I worked for CS the first time, they sent me to a mandatory medical check up where the Dr. was required to touch my nuts to see whether they were real and confirm the gender at birth. Should they have wanted to make a prostate check I would have definitely chosen another job ...
When I underwent a medical check for Canadian Study Permit, "nuts" test was performed (but just a slightly touch and it was quick).

When I underwent a medical check in Basel arranged by my company, no "nuts" test was performed.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at kamiyu for this post:
  #35  
Old 08.02.2020, 12:26
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

What's the big deal about a Doctor checking your nuts or prostate, surely it is better to have it checked by a professional who knows what he's doing rather than having to have surgery that can and often does have a VERY BIG impact on your sex life afterwards, if you are lucky and it's not already terminal.


You really think the Doctor wants to touch your nuts or put a finger up your ass ?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
  #36  
Old 08.02.2020, 12:35
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Basel
Posts: 139
Groaned at 32 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 35 Times in 24 Posts
kamiyu is considered unworthykamiyu is considered unworthykamiyu is considered unworthy
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

Quote:
What's the big deal about a Doctor checking your nuts or prostate, surely it is better to have it checked by a professional who knows what he's doing rather than having to have surgery that can and often does have a VERY BIG impact on your sex life afterwards, if you are lucky and it's not already terminal.


You really think the Doctor wants to touch your nuts or put a finger up your ass ?
I think the doctor is just doing his job and I am OK with it. (although I personally do not like being touched that area).

There should be a predetermined list of checks that the doctors must follow, based on the requirements of the authority which he has to report the results to.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at kamiyu for this post:
  #37  
Old 08.02.2020, 12:58
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 9,851
Groaned at 66 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 15,763 Times in 7,196 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

Quote:
What's the big deal about a Doctor checking your nuts or prostate, surely it is better to have it checked by a professional who knows what he's doing rather than having to have surgery that can and often does have a VERY BIG impact on your sex life afterwards, if you are lucky and it's not already terminal.

You really think the Doctor wants to touch your nuts or put a finger up your ass ?
Health screenings can be a big source of anxiety for both men and women. I think women are accustomed to gynecological exams starting in the teen years, then there's pregnancy and giving birth - so we just get on with it and realize lots of strangers are going to see and touch our intimate bits. I've never had the impression any health professional was doing it for some sort of perverse pleasure.

Men don't have quite the same experience and many are reluctant to go to the doctor for anything, much less a comprehensive physical exam. In terms of the nuts test (if you want to call it that) nerves and whatnot can make a man appear aroused when he's not actually aroused. I imagine that could be a source of embarrassment/anxiety.

I think we should not mock people for their anxieties related to health. Let's help them see that enduring a few minutes of awkwardness can be worthwhile in the long run.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 08.02.2020, 13:08
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 9,570
Groaned at 332 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 10,946 Times in 5,402 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

Quote:
View Post

I think we should not mock people for their anxieties related to health. Let's help them see that enduring a few minutes of awkwardness can be worthwhile in the long run.
A friend of mine had his prostata checked on a yearly basis, as his dad died from prostata cancer. Luckily, they caught his on time and he is now healthy again.

So yes, awkward, but it can save your life!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 08.02.2020, 13:23
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

Quote:
View Post
A friend of mine had his prostata checked on a yearly basis, as his dad died from prostata cancer. Luckily, they caught his on time and he is now healthy again.

So yes, awkward, but it can save your life!

Actually, an initial prostate exam is done via bloods these days, if abnormalities show up then the rubber gloves come out.



Sure it maybe a source of embarrassment although why people are so up tight about it is beyond me, we al got an asshole and 50% have a penis, 50% a vagina, really nothing new whatsoever
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
  #40  
Old 08.02.2020, 13:54
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Basel
Posts: 139
Groaned at 32 Times in 18 Posts
Thanked 35 Times in 24 Posts
kamiyu is considered unworthykamiyu is considered unworthykamiyu is considered unworthy
Re: Pre-employment Screening process

Quote:
Actually, an initial prostate exam is done via bloods these days, if abnormalities show up then the rubber gloves come out.



Sure it maybe a source of embarrassment although why people are so up tight about it is beyond me, we al got an asshole and 50% have a penis, 50% a vagina, really nothing new whatsoever
It is wrong that all have asshole. There is a type of disease people do not have asshole as a birth defect. In the past, these people surely died.

It is also wrong that gender ratio is 50:50. Not to mention transgender surgery..

For one to feel embrassed with the test, it is totally personal. Who tells you someone is "so uptight about it"? Where/How did you see it?

Last edited by kamiyu; 08.02.2020 at 14:21.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at kamiyu for this post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Screening for Ovarian Cancer wpqs Family matters/health 0 13.10.2017 09:21
Pre-made / Pre-mixed Formula Milk AlexS Family matters/health 9 18.02.2015 11:14
Employer have rights to pre-employment medical history? JourneyMan Family matters/health 8 09.02.2013 10:14
Better employment offer during permit process M. Ploymi Permits/visas/government 0 08.08.2011 16:00


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0