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Old 10.01.2019, 16:35
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Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

Hi there!

My name is Rupert Adams and I am a Software Developer from the UK. Considering everything that is happening here, and the fact that my wife is Hungarian, we are considering our options for if Britain turns out to not be for us. We travelled through Switzerland before and fell in love with a few of the cities we saw. I was wondering if I could ask some general questions here to get an idea about if it is possible/ feasible for us to consider a move to Switzerland in the near future?

I think at first I'd like to know:

1.) Is there much of a demand for Software Developers / Data scientists (hopefully in the near future I'll be trained as such!) in Switzerland? And if so are there specific language requirements to start working? I am aware that learning the language of where we settle would be necessary as it is, but as I don't speak German, French or Italian very well yet I would need to work on that.

2.) Is working as an expat in Switzerland mentally healthy? Do expats find themselves fitting in well or is it a struggle to integrate? I am aware that there are a lot of factors to determine this I would just like to know people's experiences!

3.) Is it hard to exist as an expat outside of the city centres? We have a dog with us and would preferably like some outdoor space in our rental accommodation so I was wondering if it is harder for expats outside of the cities?

4.) Is it possible for my wife to join me residing in Switzerland if I have an accepted job? She is an EU citizen and would be looking for work as well, we are just trying to work out the logistics!

Any information would be greatly appreciated as I'd love Switzerland to be an open option for us! If you want to know anything else please don't hesitate to ask me!

Thank you!
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Old 10.01.2019, 17:25
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Re: Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

1. Yes. There is high demand and you'll find the salary ranges and average requirements if you take a look around in LinkedIn and Indeed.ch

The language is important, sure, but from my experience it seems English is more or less mandatory and the local languages tend to be 'ideal' but not always required in IT.

It will also highly depend on the job type, if it's a big consulting company or a small analytics driven company for an example.

2. Difficult to answer as it's highly dependant on the person, the area, luck and many other factors. In my opinion it's healthy, because you have the best nature/landscape in the world, very clean air, super low crime rate and high salaries.

That being said, making new friends is very difficult, but that also applies to grown up Swiss people who relocate. From few other expat coworkers I understand it takes around 6-12 months to make a 'friend' or so to say .. contact who is just a tad bit more than a regular coworker.


3. Not at all. Learn some basic things in a local language and you'll be golden. In fact, I would actually advise you to stay out of the big cities (if possible) to truly understand the beauty and charm of Switzerland.

4. Yes, look up concubine permit details. Aside from that she can apply for a job-seeker permit, which according to my knowledge is 3 months minimum and can be extended up to 12 months. In special occasions til 24 months.

Hope you get to come over. It's a magical place.
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Old 10.01.2019, 17:31
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Re: Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

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4.) Is it possible for my wife to join me residing in Switzerland if I have an accepted job? She is an EU citizen and would be looking for work as well, we are just trying to work out the logistics!
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4. Yes, look up concubine permit details. Aside from that she can apply for a job-seeker permit, which according to my knowledge is 3 months minimum and can be extended up to 12 months. In special occasions til 24 months.
No need for a concubine permit if you are married. That is only for couples who are not married.

Job seekers permits (and she doesn´t really need one if OP has a job, she is from the EU) are for 3 months and can be extended by another 3 months. Not up till 12 or 24 months.
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Old 10.01.2019, 17:31
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Re: Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

1. If your skills are above average finding a job ain't that hard in IT, as for language, English is enough, but speaking the local language will give you a better chance since it makes more companies interested in you.

2. The super low crime rate is a myth. As for the rest, get involved in local life you things will sort themselves out.

3. Easy peasy.

4. Yes.
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Old 10.01.2019, 19:24
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Re: Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

Do expats do anything else besides SW?
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Old 10.01.2019, 19:27
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Re: Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

Yes.
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Old 10.01.2019, 20:26
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Re: Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

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Do expats do anything else besides SW?

Yes...
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Old 10.01.2019, 21:53
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Re: Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

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No need for a concubine permit if you are married. That is only for couples who are not married.

Job seekers permits (and she doesn´t really need one if OP has a job, she is from the EU) are for 3 months and can be extended by another 3 months. Not up till 12 or 24 months.
The job seekers permit can be extended up to a year.

But she doesn't need either of these as she would get a dependant permit. And vice versa if she got a job.
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Old 10.01.2019, 22:52
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Re: Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

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The job seekers permit can be extended up to a year.

But she doesn't need either of these as she would get a dependant permit. And vice versa if she got a job.
Actually check the recent regulation regarding permits for Brits after Brexit Maybe your wife as an EU national would have to become the sponsor of your permit.
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Old 11.01.2019, 10:51
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Re: Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

Greetings to your (fellow Hungarian) wife!

Not sure about her profession, but if Brexit will actually happen, her Hungarian (EU) citizenship will make it hassle-free for her to get a job.
As long as neither of you have a permit yet, your future employer will need to demonstrate that they made all possible efforts to fulfill the position from within CH and EU, but they could not find anyone. Then they can hire someone outside CH/EU.
Hiring your wife will not face this burden as she's from EU.
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Old 13.01.2019, 15:02
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Re: Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

Thank you all for your responses! Altogether this seems like fantastic news! It has definitely made me feel more confident about our options in the future! Brexit is really worrying me about our future here, things are getting a bit tense here, and I want us to have a future that sees us progressing and our work actually paying off. My wife is training at the moment in UX design so I am hoping she'll have as many opportunities as I will if we decide to make the move!

Thank you again everyone!

és Köszönöm Henrikh!
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Old 23.01.2019, 11:05
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Re: Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

1. Demand, yes, but there’s already a good deal of supply on the ground and those companies (typically multinationals and banks) who would have been the natural employers of Anglophone developers entering the country have been outsourcing more in recent years.

So you’d have to consider how competitive you are. You don’t speak a local language, which leaves you at a disadvantage, but as has been suggested, if you had the local language but not English, you’d probably be at an even bigger disadvantage. Next you mention you are a software developer and data scientist (two very different roles) or more correctly will be in the near future – which could mean a few things.

My guess is you’re the former but recently did (or are doing) a course in the latter. Problem with that is that everyone else, including everyone here, has done that too. Combined with the fact that post-hype, the millions of data science jobs didn’t quite appear as promised, means that a boot-camp or even more substantial course in data science and no experience isn’t going to help you a lot.

Of course, if you’re an experienced developer, that will help and even boot-camp experience in data science is better than none on your CV.

2. Depends on your character, your personality. Some fit in, integrate and Switzerland becomes their home. Some never do and can’t stand it here. As you’re planning to come here with your wife, it also depends on hers – many do fit in, but are faced with having to leave because their other half can’t. Or they split. That happens too.

3. No. Things work differently here, so don’t expect to find a 24-hour Tesco in your local village, or anything other than a shop at the train or even petrol station open on a Sunday, but infrastructure, especially public transport is excellent.

4. Yes.
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Old 04.02.2019, 21:35
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Re: Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

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Hi there!
1.) Is there much of a demand for Software Developers / Data scientists (hopefully in the near future I'll be trained as such!) in Switzerland? And if so are there specific language requirements to start working? I am aware that learning the language of where we settle would be necessary as it is, but as I don't speak German, French or Italian very well yet I would need to work on that.
AFAIK there is demand. Although salaries for foreigners are not as good as they should be. I'm still missing pieces of the puzzle as I just got my first job and I was able to negotiate up, but I smell that after one or two years and some basic german salaries will be different.

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2.) Is working as an expat in Switzerland mentally healthy? Do expats find themselves fitting in well or is it a struggle to integrate? I am aware that there are a lot of factors to determine this I would just like to know people's experiences!
I'm was living for 10 years in another country and the language was key for integration. The same I see from my friends that are living in Zurich for also a long time: they use German a lot.


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4.) Is it possible for my wife to join me residing in Switzerland if I have an accepted job? She is an EU citizen and would be looking for work as well, we are just trying to work out the logistics!

If you get a job and handle all the paperwork, she will get a permit too. At the same time EU citizens can apply for jobs without restrictions AFAIK.
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Old 04.02.2019, 23:14
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Re: Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

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1.) Is there much of a demand for Software Developers / Data scientists (hopefully in the near future I'll be trained as such!) in Switzerland? And if so are there specific language requirements to start working? I am aware that learning the language of where we settle would be necessary as it is, but as I don't speak German, French or Italian very well yet I would need to work on that.
How soon are you hoping to be trained?

Depending upon the Brexit result, plus along with a change in Federal rules, language requirements have changed for quite a few people. This is covered here...

https://www.englishforum.ch/permits-...t-renewal.html

http://www.balglobal.com/bal-news/re...n-proficiency/

As you well know, everything is still up in the air, but if you know which part of the country you would be most likely to work in, then it's worth your time beginning the language basics now. Just treat it like a hobby for the time being, but get started. Good luck!
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Old 05.02.2019, 08:31
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Re: Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

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AFAIK there is demand. Although salaries for foreigners are not as good as they should be. I'm still missing pieces of the puzzle as I just got my first job and I was able to negotiate up, but I smell that after one or two years and some basic german salaries will be different.
If you target very Swiss companies than I bet you are right. I am successful only with international corporations or smaller companies where the owners and/or top management are expats. Even once a colleague (Swiss) recommended me in his workplace and still the offer was below the market rate (and lower than my colleague's at the same position). However I don't see that as a nationalism but rather mainly as a recent demand for lowering the costs of R&D's.
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Old 07.02.2019, 12:23
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Re: Help with understanding for a potential move to Switzerland/ Software jobs.

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If you target very Swiss companies than I bet you are right. I am successful only with international corporations or smaller companies where the owners and/or top management are expats. Even once a colleague (Swiss) recommended me in his workplace and still the offer was below the market rate (and lower than my colleague's at the same position). However I don't see that as a nationalism but rather mainly as a recent demand for lowering the costs of R&D's.
I see that they want to lower costs. They can go to any other country and get a better ratio for salary/expenses. They could just go all remote (if they know how to handle it).

Somehow companies insist you go to an office in .ch, they should get used to pay .ch wages.
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