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Old 22.01.2019, 16:10
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

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UK?

Tom
I said pond, not puddle.
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Old 22.01.2019, 16:30
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Just my 2 cents wort here.

One thing to bear in mind is that HR are not altrusitic counsellors, seeking to establish peace and the best solution for all involved. They are payed by the company and thus represent the company's interests first and foremost, even if some of them they do so with a smile and a lot of patience and understanding that can be mistaken as being on your side.

What you maybe mistook them for was an employee representative or an employment lawyer.

I've experienced some hair-raising situations myself. We had a secretary in our department who was resented working for a boss who was half her age and who believed more in computers than in dictating letters. It was a long story that escalated over many years but the short version is that she felt under-valued and that she was left with only the stupid tasks, whereas he felt that she was complaining too much and not doing her job as well as she could and rejected his offers to get retrained. She got her doctor to attest that she was suffering from burn out and was sent home for 6 months. When she came back her position had largely been replaced by electronics and automation and they tried to find her a different position but she worked up a frenzy that she was being mobbed and the victim of a conspiracy. During all this time HR were amazingly patient with her but at some point the dam burst and the HR guy basically told her to her face that they were trying to help but she was being extrenely ungrateful and uncooperative and that she was fired there and then.
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  #43  
Old 22.01.2019, 17:24
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employers in Switzerland

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This is where you can hire a lawyer as this is not allowed by law.
Really can't understand this re Swiss references? What on earth is the point of one, if it means absolutely nothing?

From my experience- employers find out one way or another. They all know each other, whether via Rotary, or Lions, or Freemasons, or Stammtisch, ski, football, etc, etc club, Party- and they just pick up the phone or ask at the next meeting.
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Old 22.01.2019, 17:37
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

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In short, nobody here is on EF during working hours.

Tom
They're all on night shift which is why traffic on EF goes almost dead at 16.30h.
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Old 22.01.2019, 21:43
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

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Just my 2 cents wort here.

One thing to bear in mind is that HR are not altrusitic counsellors, seeking to establish peace and the best solution for all involved. They are payed by the company and thus represent the company's interests first and foremost, even if some of them they do so with a smile and a lot of patience and understanding that can be mistaken as being on your side.
This.


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I've experienced some hair-raising situations myself. We had a secretary in our department who was resented working for a boss who was half her age and who believed more in computers than in dictating letters. It was a long story that escalated over many years but the short version is that she felt under-valued and that she was left with only the stupid tasks, whereas he felt that she was complaining too much and not doing her job as well as she could and rejected his offers to get retrained. She got her doctor to attest that she was suffering from burn out and was sent home for 6 months. When she came back her position had largely been replaced by electronics and automation and they tried to find her a different position but she worked up a frenzy that she was being mobbed and the victim of a conspiracy. During all this time HR were amazingly patient with her but at some point the dam burst and the HR guy basically told her to her face that they were trying to help but she was being extrenely ungrateful and uncooperative and that she was fired there and then.
And this. Got plenty of such examples myself too. You wouldn't believe the level of abuse I've seen when it comes to the system at large, and by that I mean outright horrible, manipulative, toxic employees milking every little mechanism especially within large corporations (small ones have none) instead of just moving the heck on already. I realize people implicitly assume everything is always the big bad employer's fault, but by goodness, it is not. Have I seen the opposite as well? Yes, but less often. Hence my comments.

However: I said from the beginning that HR reacted in a highly questionable manner, and that the manager is most likely not a good one, independent of OP's performance, personality or the broader context.

But that doesn't change the fact that the problems were probably on both ends. If you start a thread wanting to take legal action because you weren't allowed to take lunch breaks as "the boss felt threatened by you", then you're in for certain reactions. Add to that past threads with questionable behavior, well, it doesn't help.

The fact remains that this isn't the US and you don't go around trying to sue everybody and their mother for what are largely personal disputes and disagreement and nothing else. It doesn't work like that. OP apparently had his conversations, whatever shape they may have taken and they didn't change or improve anything. There's nothing left to do. The employment has been terminated, there's no indication for anything illegal, so it's done, it's over, now all that remains is putting it behind and move on, no matter whose fault it presumably was or wasn't.
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  #46  
Old 22.01.2019, 22:44
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

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You wouldn't believe the level of abuse I've seen when it comes to the system at large, and by that I mean outright horrible, manipulative, toxic employees milking every little mechanism especially within large corporations (small ones have none) instead of just moving the heck on already.
But have you ever had a colleague go on long term sick leave, only for us to later find out that he was actually a contestant on 'Deal Or No Deal'?

Sorry if that seems glib. Just read this entire thread and feel like I've seen it all dozens of times over as an employee, manager and union rep. You want things to change, but people are people and with every new generation that enters the workplace, it all begins again.
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  #47  
Old 23.01.2019, 00:58
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

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Sorry if that seems glib. Just read this entire thread and feel like I've seen it all dozens of times over as an employee, manager and union rep. You want things to change, but people are people and with every new generation that enters the workplace, it all begins again.
Me too. I can't imagine where it comes from that so many high ego people rush into a group of people, boast that some or most of them are incompetent and should do, think and be different. It takes some true leadership skills to influence and change others, and definitely more than empty words boasted loudly around. Work place is much like any other social encounter. Lastly, it is possible to accidentally step into a group of idiots, so what, wise man quickly realize the mistake and move on.
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  #48  
Old 23.01.2019, 07:05
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

A few things worth mentioning .



I don't work at this company anymore ,it's more of a story in the past but I was still interested in hearing peoples views.


About a year after it took place, I found out (and spoke to) two other employees whom have had similar problems with the same manager. They both reacted the same way as me and went to HR.One got dissed and was at the time I spoke to him still struggling to get his reference letter and was thinking about contacting a lawyer. The other one had a better experience with HR but was still furious with the manager.Interestingly enough ,all 3 of us have left the company today but the manager is still there even thus he lost his management position.


Point is that the natural reaction to such an event is to fight back. It's not so simply always to just leave on the fly or find a new job within a month as some people tend to assume in this thread. Anyway, the question I wanted to raise is in the title of the thread. Whether or not I'm full of myself or need to grow the hell up is not relevant.
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Old 23.01.2019, 07:45
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employers in Switzerland

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If you have a problem, you resolve it by having a conversation with whoever has relevancy or some form of decision-making power. If that fails miserably, the tendency is to move past it and on to other things.
You sound like a 25-year old trying to explain how the world works.. Sorry to break your bubble but you have not been around the block and you have little to none experience with the real world outside your mamas womb. Millions and millions of people around the world are being suppressed, sent to labor camps and killed in wars and you think a conflicts can easily be solved by mature conversations and simply moving on.... Jeeez , tell that to the jews who Hitler gazed in Auschwitz.
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Old 23.01.2019, 08:07
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

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You want things to change, but people are people and with every new generation that enters the workplace, it all begins again.
Good comment summing things up that is. But nothing changes because nobody is prepared to do anything about it. The ones in the stronger position are happy the way things are so continue to harass. The employees in weaker positions probably can't must the energy and/or do not have the power to do anything. That leaves neutral outsiders who largely remain passive, hence no change. Sad.

Did you really have an employee who went on TV whilst off sick?
Reminds me of the woman who took 3 years off work on full pay from a company, for cancer which she actually never had...
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Old 23.01.2019, 09:16
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employers in Switzerland

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You sound like a 25-year old trying to explain how the world works.. Sorry to break your bubble but you have not been around the block and you have little to none experience with the real world outside your mamas womb. Millions and millions of people around the world are being suppressed, sent to labor camps and killed in wars and you think a conflicts can easily be solved by mature conversations and simply moving on.... Jeeez , tell that to the jews who Hitler gazed in Auschwitz.
1) You have no idea

2) Your post is sick

3) I would red blob you but as i already did so, i cannot (yet)....
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  #52  
Old 23.01.2019, 09:24
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

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Did you really have an employee who went on TV whilst off sick?
Yes, I did have a colleague who went on a TV show, but he went on sick leave because the tv show required him to relocate to Bristol and commit to it for a period of up to 6 weeks. He was never ill. As there was a delay in the programme being transmitted, he'd been off sick for about 10 weeks before the shows he featured in were broadcast.
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Old 23.01.2019, 10:07
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employers in Switzerland

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You sound like a 25-year old trying to explain how the world works.. Sorry to break your bubble but you have not been around the block and you have little to none experience with the real world outside your mamas womb. Millions and millions of people around the world are being suppressed, sent to labor camps and killed in wars and you think a conflicts can easily be solved by mature conversations and simply moving on.... Jeeez , tell that to the jews who Hitler gazed in Auschwitz.
Which concentration camp have you been held at? And which wars (with guns, tanks, and stuff) have you fought during your work hours? I mean real wars of course, not virtual ones in the digital world.
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Old 23.01.2019, 12:18
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Trying to remain neutral here..

OP: your company surely must have general employment guidelines. check the items you feel are relevant in your case and go back to HR. Understand, complaining is your word against his/hers. You are new there.
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Old 23.01.2019, 13:04
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

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A few things worth mentioning .



I don't work at this company anymore ,it's more of a story in the past but I was still interested in hearing peoples views.


About a year after it took place, I found out (and spoke to) two other employees whom have had similar problems with the same manager. They both reacted the same way as me and went to HR.One got dissed and was at the time I spoke to him still struggling to get his reference letter and was thinking about contacting a lawyer. The other one had a better experience with HR but was still furious with the manager.Interestingly enough ,all 3 of us have left the company today but the manager is still there even thus he lost his management position.

Sorry, it's hard to believe you. You started the thread about a present moment which you confirmed by some further replies. Anyway if you were still steaming with emotions after a year or so you need some psychological help. In such case you become a zealot, the past traumatic events are poisoning your life.

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Point is that the natural reaction to such an event is to fight back. It's not so simply always to just leave on the fly or find a new job within a month as some people tend to assume in this thread. Anyway, the question I wanted to raise is in the title of the thread. Whether or not I'm full of myself or need to grow the hell up is not relevant.
For the last part you are right except your original story was a bit puzzling. Bad bosses happen. Either you can try to change that being prepared to leave, either you secure your job by playing the game, either you start playing the game waiting for a good moment(s) to influence the changes. One thing which you are wrong about is "my manager was less competent than me"... The primary role of a manager is to manage, not being a domain expert. Sometimes we can see a bad manager who thinks he's a domain expert too, such a life, but many times managers don't agree to better ideas just from project management perspective (in their subjective judgement), you know, the cost and time to implement them. In my honest opinion many times the manager's judgement is wrong but what to do when you can't build the trust to make your manager listen to your ideas even when he/she feels uncertainty about it. The manager is responsible for the business outcome and the vision, the experts are responsible for delivering the collateral. We can and should step out of our roles when we have some ideas but the formal responsibility is clear. I try to always remember it when the blame game starts
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  #56  
Old 23.01.2019, 13:10
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

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Trying to remain neutral here..

OP: your company surely must have general employment guidelines. check the items you feel are relevant in your case and go back to HR. Understand, complaining is your word against his/hers. You are new there.
lol when you're a bit fed up of working for a company, just pop over to HR and try to get them to follow through on any of their own guidelines, make a complaint against your manager. See what happens and report back.

Ta
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Old 23.01.2019, 13:19
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

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Many are on this forum. If I knew them in real life, I'd need a restraining order against them.

Some of them should take some of their 'personal responsibility' a bit more seriously and have a long hard look at themselves in the mirror.
Lol, agree. But it's been very insightful so far, no?


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Point is that the natural reaction to such an event is to fight back. It's not so simply always to just leave on the fly or find a new job within a month as some people tend to assume in this thread. Anyway, the question I wanted to raise is in the title of the thread. Whether or not I'm full of myself or need to grow the hell up is not relevant.
It's difficult to have an opinion when you don't know the persons involved. You shouldn't assume that if you tell things from your POV, in your style, people will get your point and be on your side. Maybe it's better to leave it at that and move on, here and IRL. "Fighting back" is overrated. Focus on more important things in life. Good luck.

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Old 23.01.2019, 14:15
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Personally, I think that the OP should learn some English, particularly how to spell, especially simple words such as 'harass'.

It is particulary disturbing from someone who claims to be from the US.

Tom
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Old 23.01.2019, 14:20
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

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Sorry, it's hard to believe you. You started the thread about a present moment which you confirmed by some further replies.
Nope, read my original post again. I was very clear from the start that this happened in the past.


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"My manager was less competent than me"
Ok, this was not the smartest move in my original post as I didn't know the triggering effect. When I had my meeting with the HR lady she asked "Why do you think this is happening to you", I shook my head and said "I don't know" as I didn't want to come across as telling her how to think. In retrospective I regret the answer, judging by the posts here it might have been shit the same.

Last edited by Kentet; 23.01.2019 at 14:37.
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Old 23.01.2019, 14:21
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Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

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Personally, I think that the OP should learn some English, particularly how to spell, especially simple words such as 'harass'.
It is particulary disturbing from someone who claims to be from the US.
Since when does nationality have anything to do with how well one spells?
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