Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 23.01.2019, 13:25
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,399
Groaned at 315 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 13,444 Times in 6,981 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Personally, I think that the OP should learn some English, particularly how to spell, especially simple words such as 'harass'.

It is particulary disturbing from someone who claims to be from the US.

Tom
Are you sure you want to have your Italian tested, grammar and spelling?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #62  
Old 23.01.2019, 13:26
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Zürich
Posts: 901
Groaned at 84 Times in 66 Posts
Thanked 1,192 Times in 581 Posts
YuropFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeYuropFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeYuropFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeYuropFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Personally, I think that the OP should learn some English, particularly how to spell, especially simple words such as 'harass'.

It is particulary disturbing from someone who claims to be from the US.

Tom
You've to give him some slack, his "president" is quite a bit worse at spelling his native language than him
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank YuropFlyer for this useful post:
  #63  
Old 23.01.2019, 13:52
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,811
Groaned at 100 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 10,379 Times in 4,605 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Ok, this was not the smartest move in my original post as I didn't know the triggering effect.
That's one of them.

Another is coming on here asking for opinions and being very rude to respected members who have attempted to give you advice. But for me, the biggest one was this...

Quote:
Its an international company so in retrospect I think this could actually have turned out to be at least a minor scandal if I would have leaked a recording in another country where they operate.
There are laws against recording private conversations without the express permission of the people involved.

Many moons ago, I was a union rep in such a case. A colleague took it upon herself to record all the conversations that happened in the ladies toilets in our department. She presented the tapes to the GM as 'evidence' that she was being bullied and asked me to represent her. By that point I'd been asked to represent the rest of the department as they were seeking legal advice.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 23.01.2019, 13:57
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Ok, this was not the smartest move in my original post as I didn't know the triggering effect. When I had my meeting with the HR lady she asked "Why do you think this is happening to you", I shook my head and said "I don't know" as I didn't want to come across as telling her how to think. In retrospective I regret the answer, judging by the posts here it might have been shit the same.
Can you elaborate on the bolded bit? I don't get why you would answer a question to which you would only know the answer with "I don't know" then proceed to second-guess that you would be telling her how to think.

Are you saying you think she should have known why it was happening to you?

It just sounds a bit pop-psychology.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #65  
Old 23.01.2019, 14:32
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,047
Groaned at 90 Times in 81 Posts
Thanked 18,335 Times in 8,152 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

A German saying: Wer schreibt, der bleibt - Who records, stays.

Denied lunch breaks, denied coffee breaks, denied or canceled vacations... w/o any paper trail or evidence that it actually happened or that you complained to you manager? And you complain to HR

Quote:
View Post
But advice: read the details of your contract & you should find Reference to the personalgesetz (stafflaw) which is kantonal (province) but based on Federal Law & it clearly states what you get, how many days holidays etc.
A cantons Personalgesetz only applies to the staff of the canton and own subsidiaries such as hospitals.

For most standard office workers the Federal Arbeitsgesetz set the guidelines and provisions https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...049/index.html (plus the general provisions given in the Code of Obligations starting at Art. 319 https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...ndex.html#a319)

Additionally one has to consult their own work contract and company specific guidelines such as Personal- und Zeitreglemente/employee and time keeping regulations.
__________________
"Okay, I just hope we don't wake up on Mars or something surrounded by millions of little squashy guys."
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #66  
Old 23.01.2019, 14:47
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,811
Groaned at 100 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 10,379 Times in 4,605 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
A German saying: Wer schreibt, der bleibt - Who records, stays.
Precisely!

Keep a diary of events but only ever write it on your own time at home.
Keep a file of detrimental emails from the person concerned. Never print them off and never, ever send them to your personal (out of work) email address.
Never send detrimental emails r.e. a colleague or manager from or to a corporate email address. You can purge them all you like, but they'll always be there.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #67  
Old 23.01.2019, 14:55
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,086
Groaned at 486 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Precisely!

Keep a file of detrimental emails from the person concerned. Never print them off and never, ever send them to your personal (out of work) email address.
so what, take a picture, copy them out by hand??? once you're show the door you'll loose all your evidence.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #68  
Old 23.01.2019, 15:28
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,811
Groaned at 100 Times in 93 Posts
Thanked 10,379 Times in 4,605 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Should have stipulated, never print them off in an office full of people. As many people have access to their work email on their handy, that's a different matter. Twice I've seen a colleague's email picked up from the printer by someone else.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #69  
Old 23.01.2019, 16:18
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 140
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 77 Times in 49 Posts
thekman is considered knowledgeablethekman is considered knowledgeablethekman is considered knowledgeable
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employers in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Hey sorry for your mission
But advice: read the details of your contract & you should find Reference to the personalgesetz (stafflaw) which is kantonal (province) but based on Federal Law & it clearly states what you get, how many days holidays etc. Google. Personalgesetz for your profession. ie. personalgesetz fuer ingenieure
Also please understand that switzerland was built on work, & when we go to work we leave our private lives at home & work. when you do your basic education or intern/lehre you are taught that 8 hours to work, 8 hours to learn,relax, achieve, 8 hours to sleep. & like it or not it only works properly like that. there is no reason to leave your desk, or to make private calls email. etc.
Having lived & worked in many other counties, where everyone kind of did their work, but spent more time socialising than working, it just doesnt work if you strive to be successfull & thats what u should be doing in switerland. once u learned swiss style you will make it anywhere.
u know do the parrot thing when u with the parrots & play like a canary when with the canaries.
Also if you want to be happy in CH do it in your private time a swiss workplace is not going to do that for you & isnt designed to. 'you have good & fair basic rights but you also have obligations ie. to do as the swiss do.
ps when living abroad I was always so pleased when I called an office or bank or anyone in CH the phone was always answered promptly & everyone knew who was in charge of what & put me through to the proper person, please dont mess that up, be at your desk
xxx
This was very entertaining. You sound like a lot of fun.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 23.01.2019, 16:24
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 28,993
Groaned at 1,989 Times in 1,506 Posts
Thanked 34,428 Times in 16,374 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Are you sure you want to have your Italian tested, grammar and spelling?
He claims to be from the US, I do not claim to be Italian.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #71  
Old 23.01.2019, 16:29
nigelr's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Aargau
Posts: 1,714
Groaned at 118 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 2,140 Times in 942 Posts
nigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond reputenigelr has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Should have stipulated, never print them off in an office full of people. As many people have access to their work email on their handy, that's a different matter. Twice I've seen a colleague's email picked up from the printer by someone else.
I always do it the other way, in the event that I got emails from my boss telling me to do stupid things (several times) I print them off and don't pick them up. They would stay by the printer until somebody threw them in the bin.

In my experience bad bosses melt when you confront them and push back a little. On one occasion I forwarded the email (from the CEO) to the company lawyer to comment on the contents of it and he rang me to confirm "a mistake had been made and to forget the email". I asked him to send that to me in an email....which he did.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank nigelr for this useful post:
  #72  
Old 23.01.2019, 21:42
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 12,403
Groaned at 191 Times in 168 Posts
Thanked 17,919 Times in 7,290 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Personally, I think that the OP should learn some English, particularly how to spell, especially simple words such as 'harass'.
And there was me, the very model of an English gentleman, spelling it harrassment. I feel so ashamed.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #73  
Old 23.01.2019, 22:11
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: St Gallen
Posts: 534
Groaned at 44 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 283 Times in 167 Posts
Gramatyka356 has earned some respectGramatyka356 has earned some respect
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Personally, I think that the OP should learn some English, particularly how to spell, especially simple words such as 'harass'.

It is particulary disturbing from someone who claims to be from the US.

Tom
Yep, but spelling issues give me the hint to read between the lines. Perhaps the writer has limited vocabulary so don't read the posts literally, alas it makes discussion a little difficult.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Gramatyka356 for this useful post:
  #74  
Old 24.01.2019, 03:39
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Zürich
Posts: 18
Groaned at 21 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 21 Times in 9 Posts
Kentet is considered unworthyKentet is considered unworthyKentet is considered unworthy
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
That's one of them.

Another is coming on here asking for opinions and being very rude to respected members who have attempted to give you advice. But for me, the biggest one was this...

There are laws against recording private conversations without the express permission of the people involved.
Very possible that I have been unnecessary rude. I was not prepared to be attacked and to have the story questioned. Only on the first page it was probably 5 people claiming it was fictitious.



The idea of creating a minor scandal is not really a serious one. It was rather a daydream that struck me last summer when I talked to a former retired Managing Director who said that on several occasions during his career(it might only have been twice, I don't really remember) ,he threatened to go to the press to reveal irregularities at the company if they did not give him a good severance pay, which worked. It made me think about which opportunities I had in my difficult job situation myself.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Kentet for this useful post:
This user groans at Kentet for this post:
  #75  
Old 24.01.2019, 08:55
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 9,399
Groaned at 315 Times in 258 Posts
Thanked 13,444 Times in 6,981 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
He claims to be from the US, I do not claim to be Italian.

Tom
Don't play silly. You know what I meant.
You claim to be Swiss from Ticino, over and over again ad nauseam. And technically you are right.

I expect your Italian to be flawless....No, actually I do not. :-) If I had to dismiss OP's opinions or stories I wouldn't pick exactly this "argument" i.e. his English.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #76  
Old 24.01.2019, 09:07
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
The idea of creating a minor scandal is not really a serious one. It was rather a daydream that struck me last summer when I talked to a former retired Managing Director who said that on several occasions during his career(it might only have been twice, I don't really remember) ,he threatened to go to the press to reveal irregularities at the company if they did not give him a good severance pay, which worked. It made me think about which opportunities I had in my difficult job situation myself.

You really have a high opinion of yourself, what you are talking about is basically blackmail !
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
  #77  
Old 24.01.2019, 09:46
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,086
Groaned at 486 Times in 405 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

lol lowly ex employee tries to take on huge multi-national with on staff lawyers.

You'd be bankrupt within a week.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #78  
Old 24.01.2019, 09:51
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: close to the frontier
Posts: 1,018
Groaned at 141 Times in 86 Posts
Thanked 597 Times in 379 Posts
Clocker has become a little unpopular
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

One of my colleagues took on our former employer (major Swiss firm) as she had legal insurance so paid nothing. It took a couple of years to get there, but she also won the case.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Clocker for this useful post:
  #79  
Old 24.01.2019, 10:47
EastEnders's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: former Biennoise, now in Belp
Posts: 2,100
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,138 Posts
EastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond reputeEastEnders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Very possible that I have been unnecessary rude. I was not prepared to be attacked and to have the story questioned. Only on the first page it was probably 5 people claiming it was fictitious.



The idea of creating a minor scandal is not really a serious one. It was rather a daydream that struck me last summer when I talked to a former retired Managing Director who said that on several occasions during his career(it might only have been twice, I don't really remember) ,he threatened to go to the press to reveal irregularities at the company if they did not give him a good severance pay, which worked. It made me think about which opportunities I had in my difficult job situation myself.





SR 311.0 - Edition Optobyte AG

Swiss Penal Code
Second book

Special provisions Fourth title

Crimes and offences against freedom


Art. 180 menace
1 Anyone who frightens or fears someone by making a serious threat shall be punished, on application, by imprisonment for up to three years or a fine.

Art. 181 coercion
Any person who, by force or threat of serious harm or by other restriction of his freedom of action, compels someone to do, refrain from doing or tolerate something shall be punished with imprisonment for up to three years or a fine.




So to threaten to go to the press, or Beobachter or so......will most likely land you in very very hot legal waters......
__________________
Voluntary SWISS shoe -horn to Expats since 1999, do I get a medal now?
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank EastEnders for this useful post:
  #80  
Old 24.01.2019, 10:51
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: close to the frontier
Posts: 1,018
Groaned at 141 Times in 86 Posts
Thanked 597 Times in 379 Posts
Clocker has become a little unpopular
Re: How far can a company go in harrasing employees in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
to threaten to go to the press, or Beobachter or so......will most likely land you in very very hot legal waters......
No need for threatening. You could just approach the press, Beobachter etc. directly.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Clocker for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How far will you go to smoke ? singabhadur Daily life 19 09.01.2013 05:55
How far would you go to save your pet Joey82 Pet corner 94 11.01.2011 09:45
How far from Basel can you go . . ? koolkast Housing in general 4 29.03.2010 10:14
How far would you go to stay looking beautiful (yuck) Sutter General off-topic 26 20.05.2009 21:28
Can Cartoonists Go to Far? [New Yorker / Obama Story] nickatbasel International affairs/politics 0 16.07.2008 22:04


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0