Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 31.01.2019, 14:06
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 3,080
Groaned at 101 Times in 82 Posts
Thanked 2,122 Times in 1,240 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
Works both ways, why would an employer want to employ someone who doesn't give references?

For exactly the reason being discussed. They've heard about the candidate already.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 31.01.2019, 16:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 7,351
Groaned at 445 Times in 328 Posts
Thanked 10,261 Times in 4,771 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

What if I gave Ueli Maureras a reference? SHould a prospective employer be compelled to check with him?

Are employers prohibited from checking linked-in, or twitter, or facebook?

Soon after I retired I went for a job interview. One of the questions I was asked is why I didn’t appear to have a presence on social media. They looked.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank bowlie for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 31.01.2019, 16:25
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
What if I gave Ueli Maureras a reference? SHould a prospective employer be compelled to check with him?

Are employers prohibited from checking linked-in, or twitter, or facebook?

Soon after I retired I went for a job interview. One of the questions I was asked is why I didn’t appear to have a presence on social media. They looked.
Were you applying for a job as a Russian bot?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 31.01.2019, 17:16
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 5,424
Groaned at 327 Times in 244 Posts
Thanked 8,911 Times in 3,904 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
There is an anecdote doing the rounds about a guy who had fallen out with his boss and thus started to hunt around for greener pastures and started off by talking to a recruitment agency. They looked at his skill profile and said, we have the perfect job for you. So they set up a first interview and imagine the horror when he walked into the room and met his current boss.
Very dumb to let an agency send your CV to their client without requiring them to give you the name of the client.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 31.01.2019, 17:37
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,131
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,264 Times in 7,847 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
What if I gave Ueli Maureras a reference? SHould a prospective employer be compelled to check with him?

Are employers prohibited from checking linked-in, or twitter, or facebook?

Soon after I retired I went for a job interview. One of the questions I was asked is why I didn’t appear to have a presence on social media. They looked.
No, the given references do not have to be used. But offered.

No, linked-in, twitter, facebook & Co are public and you posted the stuff. (Too bad for many )

That would be the case with me as well. I can easily "explain" why I'm not found on social media. Although, I wouldn't bother to, I don't feel obliged to be
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 31.01.2019, 17:46
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Geneva
Posts: 16
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts
Ludmilla has no particular reputation at present
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
There is an anecdote doing the rounds about a guy who had fallen out with his boss and thus started to hunt around for greener pastures and started off by talking to a recruitment agency. They looked at his skill profile and said, we have the perfect job for you. So they set up a first interview and imagine the horror when he walked into the room and met his current boss.

This does not seem plausible. The agent would have the name of your current employer so he would be a total amateur to set you up for an interview with them. Also in most cases the agent will tell you who you will be interviewing for, so that you can prepare for the interview.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Ludmilla for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 31.01.2019, 17:47
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 7,351
Groaned at 445 Times in 328 Posts
Thanked 10,261 Times in 4,771 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
No, the given references do not have to be used. But offered.

No, linked-in, twitter, facebook & Co are public and you posted the stuff. (Too bad for many )

That would be the case with me as well. I can easily "explain" why I'm not found on social media. Although, I wouldn't bother to, I don't feel obliged to be
I simply said, I don’t have time for that stuf.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bowlie for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 31.01.2019, 17:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 3,080
Groaned at 101 Times in 82 Posts
Thanked 2,122 Times in 1,240 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
This does not seem plausible. The agent would have the name of your current employer so he would be a total amateur to set you up for an interview with them. Also in most cases the agent will tell you who you will be interviewing for, so that you can prepare for the interview.



We used to get calls to the office from agencies offering jobs at the same company.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Landers for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 31.01.2019, 17:50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Verbier
Posts: 346
Groaned at 69 Times in 41 Posts
Thanked 309 Times in 133 Posts
mike_n has an excellent reputationmike_n has an excellent reputationmike_n has an excellent reputationmike_n has an excellent reputation
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
I just found out a potential Swiss employer I had been talking to ignored the reference to my old job here in Switzerland I gave them and instead, reached out to a personal contact ex-collogue of mine they knew about me who in turn referred them to speak to someone else at my old work.

Wondering if this is legal as I know references are an interesting topic here in Switzerland, but I have never heard of this happening so blatantly (ignoring reference I gave, reaching out to ex-collogues instead through personal connections). Anyone know what I could do?
Reference letters are mostly worthless. Would you give a reference is this was bad?

In your case the potential employer just ignored your official propaganda channel and gathered some info. Nothing special here.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank mike_n for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 31.01.2019, 17:54
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,131
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,264 Times in 7,847 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
We used to get calls to the office from agencies offering jobs at the same company.
When the agencies offer you your job, that's when it gets uncomfy.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 31.01.2019, 18:19
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 338 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 26,263 Times in 11,000 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
The agent would have the name of your current employer so he would be a total amateur to set you up for an interview with them.
In my experience, many agents are total amatuers.


Quote:
View Post
Also in most cases the agent will tell you who you will be interviewing for, so that you can prepare for the interview.
Not necessarily. In some cases this is kept secret because if it gets into the public domain that company A is hiring experts in field B, the public domain and the markets and the competition will be quick to work out that company A is probably planning to launch a product with feature B. The more specialised the field and the easier it is to work out what's going on, the greater the necessary secrecy.

Of course it's a total c@ck up on the part oif the agent though, not to cross check.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 31.01.2019, 21:40
Troublawesome's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Zug
Posts: 1,111
Groaned at 247 Times in 144 Posts
Thanked 1,196 Times in 527 Posts
Troublawesome is considered knowledgeableTroublawesome is considered knowledgeableTroublawesome is considered knowledgeable
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

See nothing, wrong. I have done the same and will do so again.


If you are good then you have nothing to worry about.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 31.01.2019, 22:25
Troublawesome's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Zug
Posts: 1,111
Groaned at 247 Times in 144 Posts
Thanked 1,196 Times in 527 Posts
Troublawesome is considered knowledgeableTroublawesome is considered knowledgeableTroublawesome is considered knowledgeable
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

That's probably the most off topic comment I have seen for a while.


Doesn't gravity apply to zebras?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 31.01.2019, 22:26
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 5,424
Groaned at 327 Times in 244 Posts
Thanked 8,911 Times in 3,904 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
This does not seem plausible. The agent would have the name of your current employer so he would be a total amateur to set you up for an interview with them. Also in most cases the agent will tell you who you will be interviewing for, so that you can prepare for the interview.
After 25 years dealing with agents in Switzerland, I'd say it is very plausible..
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 31.01.2019, 22:28
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 5,424
Groaned at 327 Times in 244 Posts
Thanked 8,911 Times in 3,904 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
Doesn't GDPR apply to Switzerland?
Amusing on so may levels!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 31.01.2019, 23:37
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 15,663
Groaned at 327 Times in 280 Posts
Thanked 24,484 Times in 9,959 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
Works both ways, why would an employer want to employ someone who doesn't give references?
In many countries, references are regarded as utterly worthless. I remember asking my French boss, when I was working in France, if he'd agree to be a reference for my new job. He looked at me and asked, incredulously - what, are you becoming a nanny?

The most a reference can do, realistically, is confirm that an individual worked where they said they did at the times they said. Long gone are the days when they had any meaning. Unfortunately, there are still many dinosaurs around who aren't aware of this.

I last supplied references in 2001.

Quote:
View Post
Doesn't GDPR apply to Switzerland?
If the subject is an EU national and living in the EU, or the company has any involvement in EU countries, then yes, it does.
__________________
Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 01.02.2019, 17:33
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 10,340
Groaned at 603 Times in 437 Posts
Thanked 13,930 Times in 7,269 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
To answer the actual question: No it is not legal.
The federal commissioner's speaks of employers (and by extension supervisors) only in his bulletin. The conclusion of it being illegal is based on the mutual duty of employer and employee to protect each other'sinterests, and because the data collected by a company are data in the sense of the data protection law.

OP however asks if it's legal to enquire with ex-colleagues. There's no comparable duty among employees as exists between employer and employee. Furthermore the data protection law stipulates that those affected can demand that the data on them be deleted/erased/whatever, no such thing is possible with memories.

So the enquiry probably doesn't fall under the data protection law. Instead it would need to be attacked under criminal law, üble Nachrede, Verleumdung (libel) or similar. However that means that only negative feedback the ex-employee knows or has reason to think is false can be punished. Neither positive or neutral feedback nor negative feedback the ex-colleague knows or has reason to believe to be true could be punished.

Last edited by Urs Max; 01.02.2019 at 17:46.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 01.02.2019, 18:10
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,131
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,264 Times in 7,847 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
The federal commissioner's speaks of employers (and by extension supervisors) only in his bulletin. The conclusion of it being illegal is based on the mutual duty of employer and employee to protect each other'sinterests, and because the data collected by a company are data in the sense of the data protection law.

OP however asks if it's legal to enquire with ex-colleagues. There's no comparable duty among employees as exists between employer and employee. Furthermore the data protection law stipulates that those affected can demand that the data on them be deleted/erased/whatever, no such thing is possible with memories.

So the enquiry probably doesn't fall under the data protection law. Instead it would need to be attacked under criminal law, üble Nachrede, Verleumdung (libel) or similar. However that means that only negative feedback the ex-employee knows or has reason to think is false can be punished. Neither positive or neutral feedback nor negative feedback the ex-colleague knows or has reason to believe to be true could be punished.
You're not saying anything else than I did.
As to the employer asking ex-collegues for references for the new job at employer's company: Employer is not allowed to specifically ask people who were not given as references. But that is one of these "Gummiparagraphen" again, which is why I mentioned the question of enforceability. People talk to each other and there are often times where that even helps to get a job.

Over all, anyway, this is a case of "wo kein Kläger, da kein Richter", and - as I also mentioned - sueing would take for ever and the outcome would be basically nothing. More likely even, the case would be dismissed due to "Mangelnde Aussicht auf Erfolg" - lack of prospects for success.
And anything how would OP define success? A brainwash session for the potential employer? Or is it a mental wrap over the knuckles = petty.

Hence if this annoys OP so much, OP better not sign a contract with the that potential employer. Apart from that it is a "suck it up" situation. Have a beer and move on is what I'd do.
__________________
It's all a matter or perspective.
So move your butt and look at it from the other side
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 02.02.2019, 00:19
flow23's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,029
Groaned at 91 Times in 69 Posts
Thanked 1,777 Times in 963 Posts
flow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond reputeflow23 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
View Post
There is an anecdote doing the rounds about a guy who had fallen out with his boss and thus started to hunt around for greener pastures and started off by talking to a recruitment agency. They looked at his skill profile and said, we have the perfect job for you. So they set up a first interview and imagine the horror when he walked into the room and met his current boss.
what, that is impossible... never heard of that anecdote, simply because the agency in 10000% of all case would disclose the company and interviewee once you're are going to be interviewed. i doubt that story, sorry.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02.02.2019, 01:09
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 10,340
Groaned at 603 Times in 437 Posts
Thanked 13,930 Times in 7,269 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
To answer the actual question: No it is not legal.
Quote:
You're not saying anything else than I did.
Of course I do. What I think applies isn't completely the opposite but it's quite close.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
advice, employment, illegal, legal, references




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Employer won't give reference letter alsion Employment 6 19.02.2018 14:41
Landlord reference - should I ask my current agency before giving their contact? olivepolymer Housing in general 3 20.07.2017 20:11
Employer Reference Letter- Legal steps dilip_gem Employment 36 24.08.2016 02:55
Can I kick out my lazy neighbours for leaving their spawnmobile out? Phil_MCR Housing in general 14 05.07.2013 21:18
Potential employer demanding a reference from current employer Dramaticpause Employment 21 09.05.2010 01:16


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:55.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0