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  #21  
Old 31.01.2019, 13:06
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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Works both ways, why would an employer want to employ someone who doesn't give references?

For exactly the reason being discussed. They've heard about the candidate already.
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  #22  
Old 31.01.2019, 15:07
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

What if I gave Ueli Maureras a reference? SHould a prospective employer be compelled to check with him?

Are employers prohibited from checking linked-in, or twitter, or facebook?

Soon after I retired I went for a job interview. One of the questions I was asked is why I didn’t appear to have a presence on social media. They looked.
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  #23  
Old 31.01.2019, 15:25
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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What if I gave Ueli Maureras a reference? SHould a prospective employer be compelled to check with him?

Are employers prohibited from checking linked-in, or twitter, or facebook?

Soon after I retired I went for a job interview. One of the questions I was asked is why I didn’t appear to have a presence on social media. They looked.
Were you applying for a job as a Russian bot?
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  #24  
Old 31.01.2019, 16:16
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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There is an anecdote doing the rounds about a guy who had fallen out with his boss and thus started to hunt around for greener pastures and started off by talking to a recruitment agency. They looked at his skill profile and said, we have the perfect job for you. So they set up a first interview and imagine the horror when he walked into the room and met his current boss.
Very dumb to let an agency send your CV to their client without requiring them to give you the name of the client.
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Old 31.01.2019, 16:37
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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What if I gave Ueli Maureras a reference? SHould a prospective employer be compelled to check with him?

Are employers prohibited from checking linked-in, or twitter, or facebook?

Soon after I retired I went for a job interview. One of the questions I was asked is why I didn’t appear to have a presence on social media. They looked.
No, the given references do not have to be used. But offered.

No, linked-in, twitter, facebook & Co are public and you posted the stuff. (Too bad for many )

That would be the case with me as well. I can easily "explain" why I'm not found on social media. Although, I wouldn't bother to, I don't feel obliged to be
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  #26  
Old 31.01.2019, 16:46
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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There is an anecdote doing the rounds about a guy who had fallen out with his boss and thus started to hunt around for greener pastures and started off by talking to a recruitment agency. They looked at his skill profile and said, we have the perfect job for you. So they set up a first interview and imagine the horror when he walked into the room and met his current boss.

This does not seem plausible. The agent would have the name of your current employer so he would be a total amateur to set you up for an interview with them. Also in most cases the agent will tell you who you will be interviewing for, so that you can prepare for the interview.
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  #27  
Old 31.01.2019, 16:47
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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No, the given references do not have to be used. But offered.

No, linked-in, twitter, facebook & Co are public and you posted the stuff. (Too bad for many )

That would be the case with me as well. I can easily "explain" why I'm not found on social media. Although, I wouldn't bother to, I don't feel obliged to be
I simply said, I don’t have time for that stuf.
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  #28  
Old 31.01.2019, 16:48
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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This does not seem plausible. The agent would have the name of your current employer so he would be a total amateur to set you up for an interview with them. Also in most cases the agent will tell you who you will be interviewing for, so that you can prepare for the interview.



We used to get calls to the office from agencies offering jobs at the same company.
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  #29  
Old 31.01.2019, 16:50
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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I just found out a potential Swiss employer I had been talking to ignored the reference to my old job here in Switzerland I gave them and instead, reached out to a personal contact ex-collogue of mine they knew about me who in turn referred them to speak to someone else at my old work.

Wondering if this is legal as I know references are an interesting topic here in Switzerland, but I have never heard of this happening so blatantly (ignoring reference I gave, reaching out to ex-collogues instead through personal connections). Anyone know what I could do?
Reference letters are mostly worthless. Would you give a reference is this was bad?

In your case the potential employer just ignored your official propaganda channel and gathered some info. Nothing special here.
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  #30  
Old 31.01.2019, 16:54
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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We used to get calls to the office from agencies offering jobs at the same company.
When the agencies offer you your job, that's when it gets uncomfy.
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  #31  
Old 31.01.2019, 17:19
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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The agent would have the name of your current employer so he would be a total amateur to set you up for an interview with them.
In my experience, many agents are total amatuers.


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Also in most cases the agent will tell you who you will be interviewing for, so that you can prepare for the interview.
Not necessarily. In some cases this is kept secret because if it gets into the public domain that company A is hiring experts in field B, the public domain and the markets and the competition will be quick to work out that company A is probably planning to launch a product with feature B. The more specialised the field and the easier it is to work out what's going on, the greater the necessary secrecy.

Of course it's a total c@ck up on the part oif the agent though, not to cross check.
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  #32  
Old 31.01.2019, 20:40
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

See nothing, wrong. I have done the same and will do so again.


If you are good then you have nothing to worry about.
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  #33  
Old 31.01.2019, 21:25
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

That's probably the most off topic comment I have seen for a while.


Doesn't gravity apply to zebras?
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  #34  
Old 31.01.2019, 21:26
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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This does not seem plausible. The agent would have the name of your current employer so he would be a total amateur to set you up for an interview with them. Also in most cases the agent will tell you who you will be interviewing for, so that you can prepare for the interview.
After 25 years dealing with agents in Switzerland, I'd say it is very plausible..
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  #35  
Old 31.01.2019, 21:28
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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Doesn't GDPR apply to Switzerland?
Amusing on so may levels!!!!!
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  #36  
Old 31.01.2019, 22:37
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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Works both ways, why would an employer want to employ someone who doesn't give references?
In many countries, references are regarded as utterly worthless. I remember asking my French boss, when I was working in France, if he'd agree to be a reference for my new job. He looked at me and asked, incredulously - what, are you becoming a nanny?

The most a reference can do, realistically, is confirm that an individual worked where they said they did at the times they said. Long gone are the days when they had any meaning. Unfortunately, there are still many dinosaurs around who aren't aware of this.

I last supplied references in 2001.

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Doesn't GDPR apply to Switzerland?
If the subject is an EU national and living in the EU, or the company has any involvement in EU countries, then yes, it does.
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  #37  
Old 01.02.2019, 16:33
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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To answer the actual question: No it is not legal.
The federal commissioner's speaks of employers (and by extension supervisors) only in his bulletin. The conclusion of it being illegal is based on the mutual duty of employer and employee to protect each other'sinterests, and because the data collected by a company are data in the sense of the data protection law.

OP however asks if it's legal to enquire with ex-colleagues. There's no comparable duty among employees as exists between employer and employee. Furthermore the data protection law stipulates that those affected can demand that the data on them be deleted/erased/whatever, no such thing is possible with memories.

So the enquiry probably doesn't fall under the data protection law. Instead it would need to be attacked under criminal law, üble Nachrede, Verleumdung (libel) or similar. However that means that only negative feedback the ex-employee knows or has reason to think is false can be punished. Neither positive or neutral feedback nor negative feedback the ex-colleague knows or has reason to believe to be true could be punished.

Last edited by Urs Max; 01.02.2019 at 16:46.
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  #38  
Old 01.02.2019, 17:10
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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The federal commissioner's speaks of employers (and by extension supervisors) only in his bulletin. The conclusion of it being illegal is based on the mutual duty of employer and employee to protect each other'sinterests, and because the data collected by a company are data in the sense of the data protection law.

OP however asks if it's legal to enquire with ex-colleagues. There's no comparable duty among employees as exists between employer and employee. Furthermore the data protection law stipulates that those affected can demand that the data on them be deleted/erased/whatever, no such thing is possible with memories.

So the enquiry probably doesn't fall under the data protection law. Instead it would need to be attacked under criminal law, üble Nachrede, Verleumdung (libel) or similar. However that means that only negative feedback the ex-employee knows or has reason to think is false can be punished. Neither positive or neutral feedback nor negative feedback the ex-colleague knows or has reason to believe to be true could be punished.
You're not saying anything else than I did.
As to the employer asking ex-collegues for references for the new job at employer's company: Employer is not allowed to specifically ask people who were not given as references. But that is one of these "Gummiparagraphen" again, which is why I mentioned the question of enforceability. People talk to each other and there are often times where that even helps to get a job.

Over all, anyway, this is a case of "wo kein Kläger, da kein Richter", and - as I also mentioned - sueing would take for ever and the outcome would be basically nothing. More likely even, the case would be dismissed due to "Mangelnde Aussicht auf Erfolg" - lack of prospects for success.
And anything how would OP define success? A brainwash session for the potential employer? Or is it a mental wrap over the knuckles = petty.

Hence if this annoys OP so much, OP better not sign a contract with the that potential employer. Apart from that it is a "suck it up" situation. Have a beer and move on is what I'd do.
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  #39  
Old 01.02.2019, 23:19
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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There is an anecdote doing the rounds about a guy who had fallen out with his boss and thus started to hunt around for greener pastures and started off by talking to a recruitment agency. They looked at his skill profile and said, we have the perfect job for you. So they set up a first interview and imagine the horror when he walked into the room and met his current boss.
what, that is impossible... never heard of that anecdote, simply because the agency in 10000% of all case would disclose the company and interviewee once you're are going to be interviewed. i doubt that story, sorry.
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  #40  
Old 02.02.2019, 00:09
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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To answer the actual question: No it is not legal.
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You're not saying anything else than I did.
Of course I do. What I think applies isn't completely the opposite but it's quite close.
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