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  #41  
Old 02.02.2019, 02:15
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Without reading the whole thread... It's not legal. Officially, references may only be obtained with the prospective employee's permission. So no, calling up a random personal contact that just happens to work in the same company while ignoring an approved contact person is not allowed. Not saying it never happens, it does all the time of course, but that doesn't make it any more legal And to be clear: it's part of data privacy laws.
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  #42  
Old 02.02.2019, 11:49
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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And to be clear: it's part of data privacy laws.
And your reference would be? Some obscure HR agency won't do, mind.
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  #43  
Old 02.02.2019, 13:06
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

You can't stop people talking to each other. Here, there or anywhere.

Refs should not be ignored, but can be balanced with other info. It certainly was the case in the UK too.
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  #44  
Old 02.02.2019, 14:18
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

If I was going to hire someone, and someone I knew had worked with this person, of COURSE I would ask them!

Meanwhile, if the candidate had a problem with this, I would seriously wonder WHY?

Any candidate worth their salt will research the hell out of any prospective employer. Why do you expect it to not work both ways?

Tom
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  #45  
Old 02.02.2019, 15:40
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

In the field I was working in in the UK- we all knew glowing references were given to get rid of people . HoD's, Senior Staff/management, we always talked to each other about prospective candidates. Makes total sense.
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  #46  
Old 02.02.2019, 15:52
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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You can't stop people talking to each other. Here, there or anywhere....
Well, in general managers and HR cannot freely talk about people. They have a position in the company which gives them access to confidential information such as salary, CV content and other info, and some things have to stay confidential.

When someone applies to the position in the company, this is confidential too. The hiring manager cannot call around and tell his friends that this person applied to this or that position. In Switzerland the company might ask the applicant to sign the informed consent allowing them to get background information, and even the consent comes in two possible choices — one form is naming the hiring company and another has this generic “company” word.
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  #47  
Old 02.02.2019, 18:23
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Link to the appropriate Swiss law, please?

Tom
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  #48  
Old 02.02.2019, 19:01
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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Link to the appropriate Swiss law, please?

Tom
I take it you didn't like my link. I thought you speak German?

The school that published that paper is "eidgenössisch anerkannt". The "eidgenössische Fachausweis" is the thing one wants to get in this country.
But if you know better, fine. Guess OP followed the links and made up their own mind by now.

From how I understood the original qustion, it was about' is it legal'. Not 'does it happen' or who on EF thinks it's cool to bypass it.
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  #49  
Old 02.02.2019, 19:08
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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I take it you didn't like my link. I thought you speak German?
tl;dr

Tom
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  #50  
Old 02.02.2019, 19:15
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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And your reference would be? Some obscure HR agency won't do, mind.
will this do you?

https://www.beobachter.ch/arbeit/ste...ragen-darf-man
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  #51  
Old 02.02.2019, 19:37
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

If any of you think it doesn't happen on an unofficial level in this small country then you are all seriously dreaming !


Somebody always knows somebody somewhere and ask's the question somehow or another, it happens more here because of the size of he country, the military ties with personnel but it also happens elsewhere just as much where ever possible.


Why would you want to employ somebody blind if you know somebody with a common contact ?
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  #52  
Old 02.02.2019, 22:29
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

as it is an English Forum, and many do not understand German, could you extract the relevant points, thanks (as per Forum rules).
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  #53  
Old 02.02.2019, 22:51
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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In the field I was working in in the UK- we all knew glowing references were given to get rid of people . HoD's, Senior Staff/management, we always talked to each other about prospective candidates. Makes total sense.
Not always. But agreed that of course people talk. It's human nature to try and check if ither humans will "fit in".
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  #54  
Old 03.02.2019, 10:12
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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Some people FFS.
What's the Swiss Federal Railway to do with this conversation?

In any case, what does it matter if it's legal or not? Anybody who sues will simply never work in this country again.

Tom
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  #55  
Old 03.02.2019, 11:22
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Quote:
could you extract the relevant points, thanks (as per Forum rules).

It is illegal as it violates the data protection act.

That's about the gist of it. Of course it happens all the time and there's nothing one can really do about it, but it is illegal.
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  #56  
Old 03.02.2019, 14:18
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

In my career only one employer asked for references and actually contacted them. Later it turned out it was the worst boss ever.

It really depends on the type of job. If you are an engineer diploma of higher education reliably prove your skills, but if your role belong to the "fat" of a corporation perhaps there is no direct way to verify your skills, furthermore your past success in corporate x doesn't guarantee success in your new environment.

The only check which makes sense is the background check. Is your diploma real and/or can we verify your work history relevant to our position?

Personally I don't trust any references, especially internal references in your new work place. Every corporation buzzes with political currents. Organized groups support themselves and are trying to diminish the outsiders all the time. I have the curiosity to check if someone is really an expert or if someone else is really unskilled poor performer. Most of the time it's only a political play having nothing to do with reality. The truth is that stupid people are equally distributed amongst the population. Statistically you can find the same percentage of stupidity amongst unskilled workers, highly educated specialists, wealthy business people, corporate management, etc. People are only people
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  #57  
Old 03.02.2019, 15:13
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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In my career only one employer asked for references and actually contacted them. Later it turned out it was the worst boss ever.
It can depend upon the industry you're employed in. In my experience, a cash handling reference will always be sought in a retail environment, or one where the employee would have access to the client's credit facility.
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  #58  
Old 04.02.2019, 14:36
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

Yes it does, thanks
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  #59  
Old 04.02.2019, 16:33
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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And your reference would be? Some obscure HR agency won't do, mind.
The question wasn't whether I agree or whether it happens I even said that of course obtaining informal references happens all the time. But that doesn't make it - strictly speaking - legal.

Personally, I think both the stupid written Zeugnisse as well as these type of verbal references are of no use and a complete waste of time.

That said, depending on who a prospective employer would contact at my company, they might well reach someone who hates my guts for some reason and no, it wouldn't be fair to make a hiring decision based on that. Plenty of people I've had conflicts with and, more importantly, plenty of people who literally cannot even remotely comment on my qualities or qualifications, so reaching out to some random - even if that person is generally trusted - isn't any more or less fair or objective than reaching out to someone who was approved by the applicant and is therefore someone they obviously liked and that liked them.
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Old 04.02.2019, 21:31
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Re: Potential employer ignored my reference reached out to their personal contact ins

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That said, depending on who a prospective employer would contact at my company, they might well reach someone who hates my guts for some reason and no, it wouldn't be fair to make a hiring decision based on that. Plenty of people I've had conflicts with and, more importantly, plenty of people who literally cannot even remotely comment on my qualities or qualifications, so reaching out to some random - even if that person is generally trusted - isn't any more or less fair or objective than reaching out to someone who was approved by the applicant and is therefore someone they obviously liked and that liked them.
+1, couldn't agree more

The truth is that by taking any decision or even by mere existence we always get into conflict with someone's else desire
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