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Old 12.02.2019, 12:35
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Robot programming in Switzerland

Hello

This is my first post on this forum so I would like to say hello to everybody.
I am an polish engineer working as a robot programmer for a german company. I am programming industrial robots like Kuka, Abb or Fanuc for automotive industry (mostly Mercedes Benz, BMW and Audi). I am interested in finding job in this area in Switzerland due to higher salaries and smaller taxes. If someone on this forum is working in this area I would be very gratefull for guidance. What are my chances with finding job like this in Switzerland? How does the market looks like?

Tomasz
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Old 15.02.2019, 12:53
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

Perhaps someone is working for ABB in Zürich?

Tomasz
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Old 15.02.2019, 13:46
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

I know there are many robotics and drone type companies coming from the ETH, but these are not really automotive or production style robotics.

For Boston dynamics style, Anybotics in Zurich often has openings. For drones try Verity Studios.
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Old 15.02.2019, 13:48
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

I can only say what I know from following the job market for a bunch of time, and people who are skilled/trained to be part of the development of (high) precision robots, and people who are skilled to program/maintain/repair them at location should have no problem finding a job in Switzerland. I've thought about it, but when my wife got pregnant some yrs ago the last was no longer an option due to almost all of those jobs requiring the willingness to be 80% of the time away from home, and for the first I simply do not qualify.

You could have a look at company's like Fanuc, Leica, ABB, Bluebotics, Rob. There are more but these pop in my head quickly.
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Old 15.02.2019, 14:29
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

Thank you for the answers!
I have almost 5 years of professional experience. Generally work in Germany is ok but I pay around 41% tax and the higher the salary the bigger the tax is. In Germany you have to pay bigger taxes when you are not married, I dont exactly know how it is in Switzerland. For example if you have 6000 euro gross salary, netto you have 3400 euro... I would say I have big experience, I had projects for Opel, VW, BMW, Audi, Mercedes Benz, Magna ect. In my current job I am working usually in a system that 20 days I am working (every day) in the factory and I live in the hotel which is payed by the company and then for 10 days I drive home to Poland. That means that I dont have to rent anything in Germany. I am not working with drones ect. that is something else, not my field. Since you are more than me experienced in the market, how big salary can an experienced engineer have? Currently I have around 50 thousands euro gross per year, but I want to change job to be a senior programmer and I am trying to search for something between 65-75 thousands per year, but this is for German market.
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Old 15.02.2019, 15:56
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

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Since you are more than me experienced in the market, how big salary can an experienced engineer have?.
Oh no, I'm not. I Maintained factory's at home and among the equipment we had a bunch of robots from brands like Fanuc for whom I became the steady guy when it came to maintenance, disruptions, repairs and modifications. If things became more complicated we called in the specialist who would in our case come from Luxembourg or Switzerland, I was looking for a job like the specialist had which I could do with the internal training they always give. Looking for this I came across a lot of adds, and just wanted to share what I noticed on the market. I cannot tell you what you should expect to earn here, but in such function beyond doubt it be enough for a pretty decent living here.

Also don't just look at salary and taxes, but look at the whole picture. Living expenses here can easily be twice or more of that in Germany or Poland.

In your case it is easy to settle in this country due to you being EU nationality, just search for some jobs and apply for them, and with what they offer you'll get a good picture of the situation you should expect here if it is good just come over, if not stay where you are.
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Old 15.02.2019, 16:05
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

Thank you for the info. I will check it.
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Old 15.02.2019, 16:47
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

Typical engineering job, 10kchf per month. Deductions like for employment insurance, state run old age pension,etc, 1000 a month. Taxes are dependent on where you live, roughly 1500 a month. Rent 2000 a month. Health insurace one 43 year old person, 350 a month. Food based on supermarket and self cooking, one person, 500 a month.
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Old 15.02.2019, 17:55
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

I case of my job there is no office work, so no reason to rent anything. In my current company they sent me to a project for example to BMW in Leipzig, I live in the hotel for which they pay and after 2-3 weeks I drive home. Normally I save 100% of my salary. Plus when I am on the project I have 24 euro per day travel money (tax free). I am just wondering if its possible to do the same in Switzerland. There are no car facotries in Switzerland so its hard to imagine that I would work in the office (what would I do there?). For sure in Switzerland people are studying Automation control and robitics (like I did) so they have to go work somewhere after graduation. Perhaps on this forum there is a Switzerland industrial robot programmer who could say how it work basing on his own experience.
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Old 15.02.2019, 19:14
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

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Perhaps someone is working for ABB in Zürich?

Tomasz
ABB doesn't do much robotics in Zürich. Most of the robotics R&D is based in Finland and China.
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Old 15.02.2019, 19:17
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

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I case of my job there is no office work, so no reason to rent anything. In my current company they sent me to a project for example to BMW in Leipzig, I live in the hotel for which they pay and after 2-3 weeks I drive home. Normally I save 100% of my salary. Plus when I am on the project I have 24 euro per day travel money (tax free). I am just wondering if its possible to do the same in Switzerland. There are no car facotries in Switzerland so its hard to imagine that I would work in the office (what would I do there?). For sure in Switzerland people are studying Automation control and robitics (like I did) so they have to go work somewhere after graduation. Perhaps on this forum there is a Switzerland industrial robot programmer who could say how it work basing on his own experience.
There is no car manufacturing in Switzerland, but there are quite a few smaller companies doing automotive design, engineering and support. I don't know how much of that involves robots though. Maybe you can get lucky.
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Old 15.02.2019, 19:24
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

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There is no car manufacturing in Switzerland, but there are quite a few smaller companies doing automotive design, engineering and support. I don't know how much of that involves robots though. Maybe you can get lucky.
There is actually also a lot of automatisation including robots in Swiss production companies, given the height of salaries for production workers in this countries company's can choose between 3 options.

1. Use machines/robots
2. Move production out of the country.
3. Go bankrupt.

But if he desires to be on location he'll most likely spend most of his time travelling half of Europe.
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Old 15.02.2019, 20:25
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

You missed the point that Switzerland is not in EU. To be on a Swiss payroll you'll have to obtain work permit first. For permit B, you need to settle here first, that is rent something, even a room (which is ~1k CHF/mo), register at commune with a rent contract as a proof of settlement, and pay health insurance. Another option would be permit G for cross border commuters, but I guess the procedure would be similar to permit B, you would need to prove that you live close to the border. I have no experience with G permit.

From what you've written, I guess that your speciality is PLC programming. I have seen a few job posts in Geneva last year. I remember that CERN was looking for PLC programmers.

If you are looking for a job in Switzerland only for financial reason look for a job which let you live (register at the commune) in canton Zug or Schwyz. Mind you in some cantons the tax is significantly higher. Provided that you currently live in Poland for 3400 EUR/mo, I guess that you can save ~2400 EUR/mo, but a 100 EUR can buy you a lot in terms of services, hobbies, food. To have similar comfort of living in Switzerland I guess you should aim for saving 5000 CHF/mo. IMHO, you need to get more than that to actually feel that you improved your financial situation.
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Old 15.02.2019, 21:21
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

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Another option would be permit G for cross border commuters, but I guess the procedure would be similar to permit B, you would need to prove that you live close to the border. I have no experience with G permit.
That is only for daily commuters, people who return home for the weekend (or just once a week) do not have that restriction. It is perfectly fine to live in Poland or the Netherlands and have a G permit.
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Old 15.02.2019, 23:21
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

Still, to be eligible for the low taxes you need to 'officially' live in Switzerland.
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Old 15.02.2019, 23:50
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

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Still, to be eligible for the low taxes you need to 'officially' live in Switzerland.
All true.
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Old 16.02.2019, 00:02
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

Everything is made in China these days. Also the screws!

I would try there.
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Old 16.02.2019, 03:11
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

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Still, to be eligible for the low taxes you need to 'officially' live in Switzerland.
I thought that holders of G permit can opt to pay taxes in Switzerland, however since they are not living in Switzerland the Swiss tax would be based on the location of the employer (canton, commune, etc.). Isn't it true?
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Old 16.02.2019, 05:03
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

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I thought that holders of G permit can opt to pay taxes in Switzerland, however since they are not living in Switzerland the Swiss tax would be based on the location of the employer (canton, commune, etc.). Isn't it true?
They are resident elsewhere and thus besides paying taxes in Switzerland also subjected to their local laws and tax rulings. This could mean paying taxes in Switzerland and paying full taxes in their home country if there is no treaty to avoid double taxation. Else their home country will redraw the paid taxes in Switzerland from the tax they have to pay at home. Only paying taxes in Switzerland will not happen.
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Old 16.02.2019, 07:38
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Re: Robot programming in Switzerland

In my current german company and with the previous one problem of residency was solved in a way that I was registered that I *live* in the company office. So my living addres in Germany is the office. Many companies do that, its a common practice. Its enough for Krankenkasse, Tax institution ect. Perhaps company in Switzerland can do the same.
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