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Old 04.03.2019, 01:37
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RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

Hi all, I'm feeling burned out from my high stakes tech job in Zurich, probably will get PIP'ed out after next review. I saved more than enough after years of working here and financially stable, but don't want to leave off the table some extra 200k-300k that I understand I could get from unemployment insurance (RAV) over the next two years.

I'm trying to figure out exactly how does this RAV thing work so that I could take full advantage of it and would appreciate if someone could shed light on some of my questions

1. If I quit voluntarily I understand I'm not entitled to any compensation by RAV. But if I get fired for job performance reasons, is this insured by RAV?

2. At the new jobs they'll force me to take, can I just slack off and get fired again and again (due to boring work, unlikely I'll get something comparable to my old job here in scope and pay) and will RAV still pay me in full for 2 years?

3. How does RAV compute insured salary? Much of my job income was bonuses and stock options vesting, is this considered part of salary and insured by RAV?

4. I'd like to take a few months off between the jobs to relax, travel around, spend time with family, etc. Would this be ok with RAV? I suppose they just won't pay me during this time, but no other consequences, right?

5. Does the money paid to me by RAV ever needs to repaid back?

Thanks very much for reading and replies!
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Old 04.03.2019, 06:35
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

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2. At the new jobs they'll force me to take, can I just slack off and get fired again and again (due to boring work, unlikely I'll get something comparable to my old job here in scope and pay) and will RAV still pay me in full for 2 years?
Nice try, you will get penalised if you do that.

Your job is to get a new job asap and your employer RAV will do their best to make sure you get one. It is not a cushion to sit on and enjoy your freetime and leisure whilst they pay you....
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Old 04.03.2019, 06:49
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

I mean, I will of course take up some job, but put minimum effort into it and maybe get fired again. Why and how will they penalize this?


Also, if I decide maybe to do a PhD, does TA count as a real job to RAV? The pay will be quite a bit lower than in industry, of course, would this be a problem to me getting 70-80% of my old pay from RAV?
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Old 04.03.2019, 06:52
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

You’ll get what you deserve, which is nothing.
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Old 04.03.2019, 06:52
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

I sincerely wish you to get the same, Mr Corbets.
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Old 04.03.2019, 07:04
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

The RAV is fairly attuned to people attempting to take the piss and treat it as a jolly.

If you’re feeling burned out, go for an assessment with your doctor and get yourself signed off for a bit.
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Old 04.03.2019, 07:07
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

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I mean, I will of course take up some job, but put minimum effort into it and maybe get fired again. Why and how will they penalize this?
Simple, by cutting your pay as you are clearly not interested in getting a new job. As Sandgrounder said, they are pretty aware of people who try that
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Old 04.03.2019, 07:08
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

Do you have a reference for that? I'm interested in details.
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Old 04.03.2019, 07:14
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

Do you realise that you're looking for advice on how to scam an insurance company?
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Old 04.03.2019, 07:16
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

We're being trolled, chaps. "Steph" has a new account.
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Old 04.03.2019, 07:18
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

Sorry, no, what exactly is the scam? I'm new to this RAV thing and trying to understand the rules of the game here.
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Old 04.03.2019, 07:20
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

I paid good chunk of money over my career for ALV and want to get my money's worth before retiring from work.
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Old 04.03.2019, 07:23
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

Also don't understand all this toxic negativity I get here. If the answer to my question #2 is no, I can accept that, but please don't just into baseless accusation.
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Old 04.03.2019, 07:24
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

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Do you realise that you're looking for advice on how to scam an insurance company?
Financed by you and me - taxpayers.

This is not the UK. Switzerland didn't get where it is today by pandering to shirkers or trolls...
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Old 04.03.2019, 07:41
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

Everyone who works pays those contributions, and their purpose is to provide something of a safety net to catch those who have fallen on hard times. Those who are unemployed and tested by the RAV and deemed to fulfil the criteria, receive a monthly support which is larger than the actual amount they contributed per month.

The negativity, which you say you don't understand, is because your posts come across as your wanting to maximally milk a social security system, even potentially through unethical behaviours.

If that is, indeed, your aim, you'd be consuming resources which are coming out of everyone else's pockets, too, and not only from your own contributions.

There is a chance that you're just frazzled from your current job (and perhaps feeling unfairly treated there) which might have led to your wanting to "get what's due to you". However, taking the RAV route (which is hard work, as set out in many threads on this forum) would not be the way I'd suggest. I agree with Sandgrounder: rather get a doctor's certificate booking you off ill. Of course, that will also involve following doctor's orders, which may involve seeing a psychotherapist to help deal with your frustrations and unresolved issues, so you can turn the last years of your working life around, and become happier as you do so.
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Old 04.03.2019, 07:41
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

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Sorry, no, what exactly is the scam? I'm new to this RAV thing and trying to understand the rules of the game here.
Well, it's not a 'game'... it's an employment insurance fun that we all pay into designed to provide a safety net for people genuinely out of wok and looking... not for bored high-rollers who feel like taking a couple of years out to "relax".

Still, I guess it was pointless writing that as there's a very high chance you're a troll. Otherwise, you must have very low social intelligence to come on a forum and write how you want to play an insurance system by leaving a well paid job and doing the bare minimum required.
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Old 04.03.2019, 07:47
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

Regardless of the right / wrong / morals here.. I know at least a dozen people who have totally done what the OP is suggesting.

People who have simply enjoyed the benefit of two years paid vacation and then found another job inside or outside of Switzerland - mostly they planned their departure in time with the payments stopping but others miraculously found a job right on that last payment.

Interestingly those I know who 'milked it' were quite well off and could absorb the drop in salary and found it very easy to 'manage' the requirements to keep the payments coming.. I know a couple of others not so well off who find it a total struggle, they are pushed constantly to take this job or that job, threatened with payment cuts, stressed out etc..

Bottom line is, if you know how to milk the system and you comfortable doing it, of course you can.. Just like any system.
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Old 04.03.2019, 07:58
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

Also depends on your advisor. You get ones who are sticklers for the rules and resent every person on their books or you can get those which cba and are less than diligent and will sign anything off.
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Old 04.03.2019, 08:01
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

If I were a RAV officer (or an HR officer for that matter) I'd find it useful to read this forum when opening a new file.
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Old 04.03.2019, 08:05
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Re: RAV in ZH how to take full advantage of it?

I just googled RAV and this website seems quite comprehensive:
https://www.arbeit.swiss/secoalv/en/home.html

The official one is https://www.ch.ch/en/unemployment

Once you start engaging with RAV you will know better how it works as from what I gather from various EF discussions and friends & colleagues experiences it can vary quite a lot.

Note the RAV amount is capped so you don't just get a 70-80% of old salary without limit. I think (but please confirm!) that the max is 148.200 CHF per year.

Note also that RAV may withhold payment e.g. quitting rather than being fired seems to be one of the arguments.

I understand the frustration and the desire to "get back you contributions" but ... you have been well paid in Switzerland (more so than in many many other countries) and you have to weigh that against staying here looking at the walls for 2 years and doing a crappy job just to get RAV benefits. I've seen a few friends go through RAV and it's not a pleasant experience and your self-esteem does take a beating. In the end, time is your most precious asset. Just two cents there.

Wish you all the best
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