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Old 01.04.2019, 14:51
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Lending out employees 100% - is this allowed?

I have a bit of a unique work situation.

My current employer ( a Swiss based AG ) wants to lend me (only me) out to another (overseas) company 100% for the next 5-6 months or possibly longer. This is fine by me, but a small accountancy firm has said that this is not allowed in Switzerland unless you get permission, in this case from Stadt Zürich.

However, I can't find this information anywhere and would like a second opinion just to be sure.

Does anybody have an experience of this? I would legally continue to work for the 'Swiss' AG company, but do the work for somebody else, so I'm not sure where the problem is. I would still be based in Switzerland, with occasional travel to the other company.

Does anybody know what the rule is?

Thanks
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Old 01.04.2019, 15:52
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Re: Lending out employees 100% - is this allowed?

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I have a bit of a unique work situation.

My current employer ( a Swiss based AG ) wants to lend me (only me) out to another (overseas) company 100% for the next 5-6 months or possibly longer. This is fine by me, but a small accountancy firm has said that this is not allowed in Switzerland unless you get permission, in this case from Stadt Zürich.

However, I can't find this information anywhere and would like a second opinion just to be sure.

Does anybody have an experience of this? I would legally continue to work for the 'Swiss' AG company, but do the work for somebody else, so I'm not sure where the problem is. I would still be based in Switzerland, with occasional travel to the other company.

Does anybody know what the rule is?

Thanks
I have worked for an IT service company and our business was to lend out staff to customers for six month projects. Including overseas customers. So Id call bullshit on some general rule not allowing this.
It might have to do with your AGs registration - you need to state the nature of the business in there. Maybe thats what the accountants were talking about?
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Old 01.04.2019, 15:57
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Re: Lending out employees 100% - is this allowed?

You should probably ask the regulator, probably Aargau's Amt für Arbeit und Wirtschaft (or Zürich's equivalent).

The answer may depend on data that shouldn't be posted on an public forum, also on your work permit type and the type of work you're to do. Anything in the financial sector is likely to require particular permits, for example.

Personally I'd request a formal reply, along with guidance on the regulations that apply to your case.
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Old 01.04.2019, 17:50
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Re: Lending out employees 100% - is this allowed?

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I have a bit of a unique work situation.

My current employer ( a Swiss based AG ) wants to lend me (only me) out to another (overseas) company 100% for the next 5-6 months or possibly longer. This is fine by me, but a small accountancy firm has said that this is not allowed in Switzerland unless you get permission, in this case from Stadt Zürich.

However, I can't find this information anywhere and would like a second opinion just to be sure.

Does anybody have an experience of this? I would legally continue to work for the 'Swiss' AG company, but do the work for somebody else, so I'm not sure where the problem is. I would still be based in Switzerland, with occasional travel to the other company.

Does anybody know what the rule is?

Thanks
It entirely depends on the context, if your company has sold them some product or other and you are working on it as part of the sale of the product, such as customisation etc.... then it should not be an issue.

If how every it is just basically body shopping, then it would definitely be a no no, since your company would need to be properly established as an agency, meaning the correct objectives in the company's formation documents, licences etc to act as an agency and so on.

Your accountants knows much more about your company than any of us here, so I suggest you go back to them and get an explanation from them as to why they think it is not possible as a starting point.
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Old 01.04.2019, 17:57
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Re: Lending out employees 100% - is this allowed?

Thanks for the replies so far, I will have to follow up it seems.

To be clear, the company that I work for bought the other company and merged teams a couple of years ago. Last year we sold off the old company and people went back to their original teams in their original companies. This causes an operational problem for the company that we sold - which is why I am being lent back to them, at least for a while.

I can't see it being an issue, but it seems it could be.

It's not a financial or banking company.
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Old 01.04.2019, 19:52
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Re: Lending out employees 100% - is this allowed?

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To be clear, the company that I work for bought the other company and merged teams a couple of years ago. Last year we sold off the old company and people went back to their original teams in their original companies. This causes an operational problem for the company that we sold - which is why I am being lent back to them, at least for a while.

I can't see it being an issue, but it seems it could be.
Sounds very much like body shopping, so I'd expect your accountants are on the money. But ask them in any case the reasoning behind their conclusions.
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Old 01.04.2019, 20:37
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Re: Lending out employees 100% - is this allowed?

This website gives a summary of the rules regarding “Personalverleih” both within Switzerland and to clients overseas:

https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/de/ho...alverleih.html

In principle the employer needs to get a permit - however when I was contracting via my own GmbH (in Basel Stadt) we were exempt as the company director was the one being lent out. No applicable in OP’s case...

On a more practical note, and having been in a similar situation, OP should also look at how it will work with regard to work permit / tax if you will be resident in another country? Will your employer pay for accommodation / expenses in the other place? Will they pay for visits back to CH? Do you have spouse / kids in CH? Will your job in CH be kept open after the overseas assignment is complete?

Cheers,
Nick
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Old 01.04.2019, 21:04
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Re: Lending out employees 100% - is this allowed?

I would think the problem is with being away possibly more than 6 months, meaning you have to pay tax in the other country. Basically you are no longer living in CH...?
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Old 01.04.2019, 21:59
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Re: Lending out employees 100% - is this allowed?

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I would think the problem is with being away possibly more than 6 months, meaning you have to pay tax in the other country. Basically you are no longer living in CH...?
This doesn't apply, I will be living in CH and working remotely for the overseas company. My employment contract doesn't change, the deal is between two companies and money is invoiced between them. I will get my normal CH salary....
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Old 01.04.2019, 22:28
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Re: Lending out employees 100% - is this allowed?

Sounds to me like you are being "seconded" and if you are still being paid by your original employer I don't really see what the issue is.
You are still working for your employer, but you have been tasked with a specific job which involves providing support to another company. I am not sure that you should be overthinking this.
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Old 01.04.2019, 22:38
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Re: Lending out employees 100% - is this allowed?

Nevertheless, the OP should make sure he does not end up being out of pocket with the experience and should have established in writing how the employer intends to handle expenses etc. Been bitten too many times in the past with that one.

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Sounds to me like you are being "seconded" and if you are still being paid by your original employer I don't really see what the issue is.
You are still working for your employer, but you have been tasked with a specific job which involves providing support to another company. I am not sure that you should be overthinking this.
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Old 02.04.2019, 09:54
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Re: Lending out employees 100% - is this allowed?

You probably fall under this provision:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a27
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Old 02.04.2019, 11:55
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Re: Lending out employees 100% - is this allowed?

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You probably fall under this provision:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a27
Mica, you are probably right. But, I would think that this comes under art 27.4 "gelegentliches überlassen von Arbeitnehmern" and this would not require any prior authorization or approvals.

Nickatbasel's comments about expenses makes sense naturally. I wouldn't think that his employer would expect him to bear any expenses, particularly travel (as OP says he has to go to the "customer" on occasion), but it makes perfect sense to clarify that.
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Old 02.04.2019, 15:14
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Re: Lending out employees 100% - is this allowed?

Thanks to everyone for the replies so far

I'm not over thinking it - this is already my third month, it's just the accountants who were asked by the CH office manager to check the agreement who have issues with it.

Expenses (flights, hotel etc) have been promptly paid, and are mentioned in the agreement. so no worries there either, thankfully.
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