Hello, I would like help on a this negative experience.


I am new to switzerland, and been trying to find a job,

About a couple of weeks ago i saw an ad for a hilfskoch in a restaurant of a hotel (in hergiswil if it matters) i contacted them, came for an interview, was tolled the sallery is 3400 a month or 18 f an hour and was invited for a trial day. I worked from 1pm till 11pm and had half an hour break at 5pm. In the end of the day the chef said that he will contact me in few days, and as i was tired plus i dont speak german well and the chef doesnt speak english i didnt have the power to insist on getting paid on the spot. After eventually they did contact me, the told me that even though i was alright, they had a different guy that learned cooking and they prefered him, which is alright, but when i asked for a compensation for my work they reply that it is not customed to pay for a trial day.


Is that correct with the law? First time in my life that this happens to me. Needless to say that even if the should pay me about 180 only every Frank matters for me. I emailed them about this saying that i should get paid, they didnt reply for several days and now i got a friend to speak with the manager of the hhotel that said she doesnt care and they will not pay me. What can i do now?

Was there a mutual understanding (preferably written) that the trial day was to be paid, and can you prove that this was the case?

Normally, unless otherwise specified, you don't get paid for trial days.

So, yes, it is correct.

Sorry.

Tom

P.S. Just asked my daughter, she confirmed this, and that it's true even if you do a one month trial (which she just did).

Thanks for the qui k reply!


Sadly i didnt concluded with them, as i have never in my life encounter this scenario that you do not get paid for work, trial or not.


So as bummer as it is to understand this ill take this as a lesson.


Again thank you very much for your answers guys.
Vielen Dank

Hope your next one works out better.

You should be paid as you worked - unless you mutually agreed that you work work for free.

See also here: https://www.srf.ch/sendungen/kassens...pruch-auf-lohn

No, this is not correct!

Unless it was clearly agreed on in advance that it would be unpayed , the time must be payed.

(Schnuppertage - which are days young people often do in a company they might like to do an apprenticeship with later or which are days a person just follows somebody around without doing any work are free)

You can read it here - but in German, sorry.

This is a problem I often had to deal with for clients. Still makes me angry, I just noticed.

5
This makes more sense, is there an authority that can help me with this? Or i should just move on?

....probably just move on and chalk it up to experience

I work in Gastro, I run a small deli type shop and bar combined. When I look for new staff if they pass an interview I ask them to do a 2 hour shift to see how they handle food (cut cheese, pour beer etc) and how confident they are with customers and language. It's always un-paid but they always go away with some goodies.

If I ever did ask someone to do a 10 hour trial shift I wouldn't dream of not paying them, but then again I'm not a twat.

OP, I would move on and chalk it up to experience. Next time, get an agreement about trial payments in advance (but never agree to work 10 hours for free!)

__________________
Mike

Monger of fine British Cheeses

I would suggest to move on in this case.
To print out the articles linked here - or even the law which I would say you'll find in the OR (Obligationenrecht).
Next time you agree to do trial work you ask in advance how much they will pay for it, if they say nothing you present them with your knowledge.

Clear agreements simplify life enormously

see my fix signature

However, there is no minimum wage here.

Tom

Hi, If it was not clearly agreed formally/informally then it's a bit late to harbour a grudge against them now. They are not thinking about you, so you better stop giving them space in your head. I am in the same situation as you (so please don't think I am taking a higher stand or something.) You are wiser with the experience, I sincerely hope you find work with better people soon. Cheers!

Sorry but that is wrong, it is the opposite: only if it was explicitly agreed that the trial day is not paid, then the OP has no right to get paid:


"Probearbeit: Anspruch auf Lohn?
Viele Firmen laden Bewerber zu einem Probetag ein. Ob dieser Tag bezahlt wird, fragt man im Bewerbungsverfahren lieber nicht. «Espresso» stellt aber klar: Wenn nichts anderes abgemacht wurde, hat ein Bewerber Anspruch auf einen Lohn"

"Trial Day: Claim for payment?
Many companies invite applicants for a trial day. Whether this day is paid, one asks in the application process rather not. "Espresso" makes it clear: Unless otherwise agreed, an applicant is entitled to a wage

see: https://www.srf.ch/sendungen/kassens...pruch-auf-lohn

Don't let the bastards walk over you! This exactly happened to my husband when we first arrived here, who worked his ass off for 2/3 of a working day at an international coffee chain that I will not name here, upon which he neither got hired nor paid.

The law ('L-GAV2010 Art. 5 (Kommentar)' see bottom of p.12 here: http://l-gav.ch/fileadmin/downloads/L-GAV_Kommentar.pdf) clearly states that if a trial day is demanded by the employer and you do full-fledged work, you should get paid.

He demanded payment by email (just found it and although not perfect German maybe it will be helpful for you or others):

'Mit dieser mail moechte ich bitten um eine Entschaedigung fuer die x stunden Arbeit die ich am xx in Ihre Firma (xxx) geleistet habe.
Ich habe Anrecht auf eine Entschädigung weil ich vollwertige Arbeit verricht habe, die zum späteren Tätigkeitsgebiet gehört haette, hatte ich den Job bekommen.
Die Rechtslage ist so das es sich bei Arbeit auf Probe auch ganz klar um einen Arbeitsvertrag handelt. Weil mir vor Arbeitsantritt nicht klar erläutert ist dass mein Schnuppertag unentgeltlich sein soll und ich nicht ausdrücklich auf Zahlung verzichtet habe mussen sie mich fuer diese x Arbeitsstunden entlöhnen'

They tried to get away with claiming that the trial day was not a prerequisite for getting hired and demanded by both sides to get insight into the job (yeah right) and because he only worked 2/3 of a day it wasn't full-fledged work ('vollwertige Arbeit') they don't need to pay up.

We contacted the arbeitsgericht for (free) advice who called this bull***t as it obviously was normal work and also without agreeing to this day there would be no chance of actually getting the job.

He again demanded to get paid in a registered letter, mentioning getting advice from the court, stating he did full-fledged work by listing which tasks he performed that day, stating he was neither told he wouldn't get paid nor renounced payment himself and finally, threatening with legal measures. Then the bastards paid up

Yes this likely was a waste of time considering the amount they finally paid out BUT not letting them walk over him did wonders for his confidence on the job market.

Hope this helps & good luck!

In the past we have have hired 5 people for a trial day to see how they get on and to pick the best. We make it quite clear this is unpaid but did offer lunch.

Though I'm sure it's not the case with the OP, but it was amazing how these guys lazed around and did very little. They only came so they could get a stamp for the unemployment benefit. It took us a total of 6 trial days (so 30 people) before we found the 2 we wanted!

Thank you very much every one for your replies, its been educating.

I do not mind doing a trial day or trail month or even three if that matters but and as i learned through this interesting conversation it is not legal to not pay here in switzerland lets put asside the moral side of the case (and in my eyes moral does have a great weight), this attitude leaves me speachless, the audacity to not pay people for their time, like it is my life dream to work any where, unless i volunteer out of my own good free will there is no way i would agree to work not even 2 hours and not getting pay, but if this is your approach as a business owner at least explain this before any one worked for you.

To update about what i have decided to do is: I sent them an official letter, with detail i have found with the amounts that they should pay me for a day of work. Demanding my pay until the 12th of the month. In adition i wrote that if they won't do so i will use the Betreibungsamt services (costs about 30bucks).
This is an act on the principle level, and any way I choose to move on in my mind and not let them bump my day. I will update here in the future how this situation develops.

My hope is that this will attitude will be part of the past, i must say that in my opinion actions like this should be considered as a crime and businesses that behave this way should be fined with a big fine plus the manager be held acountable on a criminal level.

Sorry Tom but that is not correct.

If they are not willing to reimburse (other than expenses, e.g. travel to/from work), they need to say so specifically upfront. Otherwise it's implied that there is a compensation for hours worked.

Note that this applies if it's explicitly a "trial day" as in there's actual work involved. This is different from and has to be declared as more than a "Schnuppertag", also known as a very loose form of shadowing work, if you will, as well as to get to know the team.

There's a lot of grey zone here, unfortunately, and it is abused left and right in hospitality. Just because it's customary doesn't make it right (or legal) though.

Beyond that, to not pay for a whole month and declare it a trial month is absolutely ridiculous and in no way legal.

A little off-topic here, but I was wondering if the following is legal or not.

A few months ago, I had an interview with one of the two big banks. It was for a rather technical/quant position, so before even going to the first interview, I was given a week to answer to some pretty mathematical / programming questions. It was not an easy or straightforward task, it took me about 30 hours to do this, as it involved writing code, collecting and cleaning data, doing post-processing and analysis, and finally writing a 35 page report in LaTeX.

After this, I was invited for three rounds of 1.5 hour interviews on three different days (the first one with the hiring manager, the second one with the managing director and the third one with the HR director).

All in all, I spent about 30 hours for the technical report, another 10 hours for the interview preparations and on top of that, I had to take 3 days of holidays from work to go to the interviews (as if they could not just put everything in one day).

In the end, I did not get the job, and the worst thing is that I never got a reply to my e-mail from either the Hiring Manager or the HR department.

Where does the law stand on this? Is it legal to ask a potential employee to dedicate so much work and effort on something like this, take so many days of holidays and then not compensate him?

P.S. Nothing was agreed upfront regarding a payment, but the process was not also clear from the beginning, nobody informed me that there would be 3 interviews, 2 to 3 weeks apart.

I had one prospective employer wanting me to write some Java code in my own time for an interview, and then defend it etc etc. I didn’t bother.