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Old 06.04.2019, 17:31
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Master in Switzerland to find a job here

Hello,

I have been looking for a job in Zurich for a while now without success. I have three years of experience in Financial Services but not in particularly good jobs. I passed CFA and FRM and the only job I could find was for a trainee position for 3k CHF. I speak only English and Spanish.

I was considering to take a master in Economics/Business Economics to improve my chances to find a job here. For me it would be a great expense. I would like to ask your experience, if somebody had success with a similar path or if I should simply continue to apply as this would not give me a big edge.

Also, is basis German good enough for financial technical jobs (i.e. no contact with clients)? I was thinking I may also take 2-3 months to study German full time if this would improve my chances to find a decent job.

Thanks,
Pedro
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Old 06.04.2019, 20:26
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

Do not give up, swiss job market is a hard nut... The main problem of the german speaking jobs is, that you have a direct competition there with the swiss people, and they will have huge advantages..

CFA and FRM should be enough, I think you just need a swiss reference which you could use as a starting point... I would suggest to accept this trainee opportunity. Ok, 3000 CHF is not too much, but after some month you will have the opportunity of stepping forward.
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Old 07.04.2019, 09:08
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

Thank you Carapace for your honest feedback. It is a bit sad that I would always be at a disadvantage even if I learn German but I guess this is normal.

I will continue to search and hopefully I will find something
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Old 07.04.2019, 14:09
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

first question: Are you EU person?
If yes, then it should be not that hard to find something even without German, there are plenty of financial companies where English is company language (banks, some insurance companies)
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Old 07.04.2019, 14:41
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

I'd consider the traineeship for now, even though it's not much money. It gives you Swiss-based experience, which will look good on your CV and can help you for the next position.

Also - how long have you been looking? How many CVs have you sent out and how many interviews have you had?
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Old 07.04.2019, 15:09
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first question: Are you EU person?
If yes, then it should be not that hard to find something even without German, there are plenty of financial companies where English is company language (banks, some insurance companies)
Yes, I am. I will continue to try.

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I'd consider the traineeship for now, even though it's not much money. It gives you Swiss-based experience, which will look good on your CV and can help you for the next position.

Also - how long have you been looking? How many CVs have you sent out and how many interviews have you had?
I started to look maybe in October. I really hate to apply for jobs and I may not do in the right way. I apply to all the obvious companies (UBS, Credit Suisse, etc.) and I generally did not receive any reply or rejection without even an interview with HR.

For the traineeship, I was lucky enough to contact the person who was making the decision on Linkedin and he replied to me and I got the offer after two interviews.

I also apply through some agencies but they don't seem really competent and I fear they make things even worse (because if I get an offer, the bank/company must pay also them etc.)

Do you have any suggest on how to apply? I generally only send my CV but for the offer that I got they told me that generally in Switzerland people apply also with cover letter and a CV with a picture etc (whereas in other places in Europe I think this is advised against for a variety of reasons).


Also, I spoke with some people on Linkedin and they suggested me that it may be easier if I was already in Zurich because many companies want to make interview in person or people that start ASAP etc.

What really piss me off is that every time that I got the chance to have an interview I kill it so I think my biggest problem is to reach the stage with the hiring manager and then I should be good....

Last edited by 3Wishes; 07.04.2019 at 21:21. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 07.04.2019, 20:34
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

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I really hate to apply for jobs and I may not do in the right way.
Why do you hate to apply for jobs? In my opinion that kind of emotion will also be dripping of your cover letter. Also wondering why you think your not doing it the right way.
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Old 07.04.2019, 21:01
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Why do you hate to apply for jobs? In my opinion that kind of emotion will also be dripping of your cover letter. Also wondering why you think your not doing it the right way.
Hate may be an overstatement...

I don't like the process for various reasons. First, I don't like to write. Second, I don't like to deal with recruiters. In my experience (outside Switzerland), they are very incompetent and I don't like the idea to be evaluated only by few pages. Finally, I guess I am quite stressed by my current job, I move to this job because I was thinking it would have been a great opportunity for my life and turn out to be horrible so I guess I am afraid that the same my happen for my next one.

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Why do you hate to apply for jobs? In my opinion that kind of emotion will also be dripping of your cover letter. Also wondering why you think your not doing it the right way.
EDIT: regarding the second part, I think I am not doing in the right way because nobody is replying to me. I will try to also send a cover letter with my CV and see if things improve.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 07.04.2019 at 21:21. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 08.04.2019, 05:31
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

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Hate may be an overstatement...

I don't like the process for various reasons. First, I don't like to write. Second, I don't like to deal with recruiters. In my experience (outside Switzerland), they are very incompetent and I don't like the idea to be evaluated only by few pages. Finally, I guess I am quite stressed by my current job, I move to this job because I was thinking it would have been a great opportunity for my life and turn out to be horrible so I guess I am afraid that the same my happen for my next one.



EDIT: regarding the second part, I think I am not doing in the right way because nobody is replying to me. I will try to also send a cover letter with my CV and see if things improve.
You are applying for jobs in a very competitive market. Check your CV, learn German an try to get used to the hiring process (it won´t change). You will almost always be evaluated by your CV etc only so work on that
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Old 08.04.2019, 18:16
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

I have to agree with roegner that the process is not going to change so you have to adapt. Do I understand it correctly that in your previous applications you did not send a cover letter?

When I look at my own situation the format of your resume and sending a cover letter is essential, especially if you don't have a network with contacts that can help you further into the organization. Even though it did not bring me a job yet, but progress is being made.
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Old 08.04.2019, 18:54
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

In Switzerland you need to attach a cover letter, reference letters of previous employers and the collection of your diplomas, cerificates etc. A simple CV is never enough.
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Old 08.04.2019, 22:44
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

It isn't fun to apply for jobs, that's true. But it's even less fun to be without a job for a long time because you can't be bothered to suck it up and do a proper search.

I am guessing that you are sending the same, boiler-plate, non-Swiss CV to every company, without any cover letter, etc. You don't like to job hunt, and it probably shows.

Maybe it helps to think of job hunting like Britain's Got Talent. If you want to avoid the red Xs and get to the next round, you have to stand out. A boring CV that doesn't show why the company needs you is going to get you the red X (CV in the bin) pretty quickly.

I'm not saying you need to spray a CV with cologne or use paper made of pressed flowers or anything. Just put forth the effort so the employer feels they'd be making a mistake if they didn't at least interview you.
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Old 08.04.2019, 22:53
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

If you dont like CV recruiters and being judged... how do you want to find a job?


I would suggest learning German, networking in your industry or else youll always be stuck in these types of jobs where the company is asking for recruiters to help them fill.
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Old 08.04.2019, 23:34
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

Here are two threads with tips about how to apply for jobs.

Just skip over the unfortunate parts, or that the posts deal with a different field from yours. These threads still contain some good advice from a range of perspectives.

https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...itzerland.html


https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...-find-job.html
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Old 13.04.2019, 18:13
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

Thank you all for the good suggests. Yes, at the moment my CV is the usual "non Swiss CV" one. From one side, I am happy of this as I feel this may be the reason that I did not have any luck yet and not that I suck as a candidate. I will try to make it more swiss friendly by adding a picture and a cover letter.

I still have a (shitty) job but for a famous company so I am not in a total rush to find a job. Hopefully it will be fine and I will find something.

Regarding learning German: is normal German enough or should I learn Swiss German? The problem is that I don't live in Switzerland now. So, I think it would be possible to find some online course for "normal" German but I am not sure about Swiss German...
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Old 14.04.2019, 16:05
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

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Thank you all for the good suggests. Yes, at the moment my CV is the usual "non Swiss CV" one. From one side, I am happy of this as I feel this may be the reason that I did not have any luck yet and not that I suck as a candidate. I will try to make it more swiss friendly by adding a picture and a cover letter.

I still have a (shitty) job but for a famous company so I am not in a total rush to find a job. Hopefully it will be fine and I will find something.

Regarding learning German: is normal German enough or should I learn Swiss German? The problem is that I don't live in Switzerland now. So, I think it would be possible to find some online course for "normal" German but I am not sure about Swiss German...
for a job you need just normal german, and understanding swiss german if everybody who works there is swiss, but that comes on its own after a few months.

If living in Switzerland is a long-term objective you should start learning german. Moving to another country is not just about the job anyway.

A question: if you're willing to drop everything to take a master degree, why didn't you take the trainee position?
At 3k CHF/month, you can get by without putting a dent in your savings.
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Old 14.04.2019, 17:25
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

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for a job you need just normal german, and understanding swiss german if everybody who works there is swiss, but that comes on its own after a few months.

If living in Switzerland is a long-term objective you should start learning german. Moving to another country is not just about the job anyway.

A question: if you're willing to drop everything to take a master degree, why didn't you take the trainee position?
At 3k CHF/month, you can get by without putting a dent in your savings.
Thanks for the reply. I may be wrong but my hope was to take a master degree and then find a good paying job (6-7 K CHF?). This trainee position is for a small company and I am not sure on what can be the future after this.

Regarding the language: I lived 5 years abroad from my country in non English speaking countries and I would like to set for well so I agree that I need to speak the local language. I have not started yet as I feel Zurich may be the best city for me but if I find something somewhere else I would go to another city. So for me the best would be to get a decent job and then start to learn German.

Also, about the trainee. I have 3.5 years of experience and it piss me off that I need to start again from a trainee position with all my experience. I understand it may be necessary because it is a difficult market etc. but still I would prefer to start with a normal job.
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Old 15.04.2019, 07:35
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

I would have taken that trainee job to start with. 3 yrs of experience in Finance is not that much for the Swiss market, do not expect to get a CHF 7K job with 3 yrs experience in a role in Financial Svcs. based in Spain (just to clarify: local, regional or global scope?)
Would have been a good move to accept that position and learning German while gaining some experience in the Swiss market (along with some networking).
Like we say in Spain "mas vale pajaro en mano que ciento volando" (a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush)
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Old 15.04.2019, 07:38
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

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Thanks for the reply. I may be wrong but my hope was to take a master degree and then find a good paying job (6-7 K CHF?). This trainee position is for a small company and I am not sure on what can be the future after this.

Regarding the language: I lived 5 years abroad from my country in non English speaking countries and I would like to set for well so I agree that I need to speak the local language. I have not started yet as I feel Zurich may be the best city for me but if I find something somewhere else I would go to another city. So for me the best would be to get a decent job and then start to learn German.

Also, about the trainee. I have 3.5 years of experience and it piss me off that I need to start again from a trainee position with all my experience. I understand it may be necessary because it is a difficult market etc. but still I would prefer to start with a normal job.
Pedro, if you are already tired of applying for jobs and complying with all sort of requirements in order to make your CV stand out....then maybe it's better to stay where you are and make the best out of it.

I know people with much longer work experience and much better credentials who had to fight hard for every position and every career step up they have taken. One thing you learn when abroad - there are no entitlements. Society is not always fair.. I don't know why everyone has to work abroad these days, it really isn't for everybody. If you don't accept a degree of humbleness, especially at the beginning, you won't get where you want, at least not now. Maybe building a more relevant work experience where you are, while you are there, would be better for you, and try your luck later?
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Old 17.04.2019, 19:49
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Re: Master in Switzerland to find a job here

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I would have taken that trainee job to start with. 3 yrs of experience in Finance is not that much for the Swiss market, do not expect to get a CHF 7K job with 3 yrs experience in a role in Financial Svcs. based in Spain (just to clarify: local, regional or global scope?)
Would have been a good move to accept that position and learning German while gaining some experience in the Swiss market (along with some networking).
Like we say in Spain "mas vale pajaro en mano que ciento volando" (a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush)
I am Spanish but I lived and worked abroad from Spain for the last 3 years. Currently I work in a very big corporation with offices all over the world, so I guess global scope.
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