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-   -   Novartis - Lead vs Head (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/291517-novartis-lead-vs-head.html)

Birikina 24.04.2019 19:47

Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Hi Community


I am new to this forum and I really like it.
I did a research here in the forum and I read the previous posts posted here. In special the one regarding the job levels vs job bands https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...-novartis.html


I have seen many jobs at Novartis now have the title either as Head of XYZ or as Lead, XYZ.
Does anyone know the difference at Novartis?


Also, I looked on Glassdoor and hardly could find reviews as "Lead, XYZ".


Thank you!

NotAllThere 24.04.2019 19:48

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Head is better than lead.

I was a "Head of...". My staff were "Lead..."

ITguy 24.04.2019 20:35

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Birikina (Post 3063761)
Hi Community


I am new to this forum and I really like it.
I did a research here in the forum and I read the previous posts posted here. In special the one regarding the job levels vs job bands https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...-novartis.html


I have seen many jobs at Novartis now have the title either as Head of XYZ or as Lead, XYZ.
Does anyone know the difference at Novartis?


Also, I looked on Glassdoor and hardly could find reviews as "Lead, XYZ".


Thank you!

Lead is like more specialist position generally. Like lead analyst/consultant etc. This guy will be the technical lead in the department and will be responsible for the solution etc.

Head generally denotes that it's a line management position handling a team of people (including leads and others).

Birikina 24.04.2019 23:47

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Thank you. So a Lead has no managerial responsibility, but project responsibility.

Village Idiot 25.04.2019 14:38

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 3063763)
Head is better than lead.

I was a "Head of...". My staff were "Lead..."


Not necessarily. The important deciding factor is the GJFA (Global Job Family) level that the job carries. In the US, the positions carry standard titles ('Associate Director', 'Director', 'Executive Director', 'VP') that correspond to specific GJFAs, but in Switzerland the titles are not standardized in the same way.


I was a 'Global Head' and then got promoted to 'Manager'. Titles can be deceptive.

Guest 25.04.2019 16:56

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Hi, i'm not in Novartis but the "Lead" title one of these new Bullcrap titles that have shown up in the past years to suggest "empowerment" in the position or suggest something that is higher than it is. A "Head" usually has direct reports and head up a function or sub-fucntion. Generally speaking a "lead" is an individual contributor who may lead a "work stream" or "task force" or something task withing function. They report to a "head". They can in some cases have reports but often not. The "lead" title can be applied to many job ranks from Manager to Director, so you can be a Product Manager or Brand Manager, but still be cosidered a "lead" by function, I.e. Launch Lead, or LifeCycle Management Lead and so on, and they coordinate activities of varied cross-functional folks. They are still by title ...a manager or what ever. So these days you see CVs where everyone is a Lead, Hiring managers/HR know this, many applicants don't put their job rank on CV, and write "Lead", even though they may say be only Manager level. For example. Hope this helps, but these days everyone is a "lead". Some go as far as useing a "Leader" title, even though they're still Manager level. etc. etc. I personally dont use the title, I use it only to describe when i'm leading a project, I'm happy to use my job rank its clear what I am, my rank, and level of contribution. Hope it helps, but Novartis Roche, name your favorit company, all doing this. (except for my current employer, a manager is a manager, a director is a director, a VP is a VP, a Head is a Head, no murky titles.

Samaire13 25.04.2019 17:45

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Everything and everyone is a "Head of" something at Novartis, often even a "Global Head of" whatever, the latter usually just indicating that the jobs sits in a global, HQ-based function, but personally, I would assume someone with the title Global Head has actually proper global responsibility. Further, a massive proportion of those so-called Heads have no direct reports whatsoever. OTOH there's plenty of "Lead of" whatever that actually do have direct reports.

As VI says, the titles are standardized in the US along a job level grid, but not anywhere else. Simply because outside the US, no one gives a damn whether your job comes with a Director title or not. However, beyond the US, there's more structure in some parts/functions than in others.

So bottom line: no one can tell you what one means over another and whether one is somehow more important or better than the other. Chances are no one will really care either.

Guest 26.04.2019 16:21

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Samaire13 (Post 3063968)

As VI says, the titles are standardized in the US along a job level grid, but not anywhere else. Simply because outside the US, no one gives a damn whether your job comes with a Director title or not. However, beyond the US, there's more structure in some parts/functions than in others.

.



Wrong on the comment that no one cares if job with a Director title or not outsdie the US. In CH, this is absolutely a fact in Pharma, they do care if you have a Director title or not. You may have inside Novartis view, but externally..different world (Yes..I haven't work for Novartis as said..but the person who shares my bed and is mother of my child did for quite few years..now on the other side of the river at the other one..and notes a far better environment vs. N., i'm in another Pharma, mid-sized,). I've seen people getting burnout and sick here in CH because there were not getting promoted to Director. Weird. I was very happy when I was manager level. Hell, if i could keep my compensation, I'd happily take a demotion. Call me janitor. Just pay me. You don't find that thinking in CH.

venetian 26.04.2019 17:02

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
In CH you may find the opposite thinking: pay me as a janitor, but call me something nice.

I know someone from the sales team of a small company being promoted to "Business Development Director" as a substitute for a salary increase... his job duties remained the same, as well as the management chain... true story.

In my experience titles have been mostly a game, with no guarantee of matching the actual functions or working skills (in positive or negative).

Guest 26.04.2019 17:40

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by venetian (Post 3064179)
In CH you may find the opposite thinking: pay me as a janitor, but call me something nice.

I know someone from the sales team of a small company being promoted to "Business Development Director" as a substitute for a salary increase... his job duties remained the same, as well as the management chain... true story.
.



Don't have to tell me it's true story, similar happened to me. I did get a change of responsiblity though so the upside was I did get a good experience, albeit fancier title and no salary increase or change in management level. At least I'm happy today i can still claim had the title and it got me to my next step........outside the company, a higher and relevant title, at much higher compensation, which was the end game after all right? (maximization of compensation...not title). just gotta suck it up, take what you can, and lay in wait like a crocodile (do good work though) and snap the next opportunity.

Birikina 20.05.2019 01:00

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Thank you all for the feedback... Next question...


After the interviews, were there a salary/contract negotiation or it is THE offer either take it or leave it?
:msnsarcastic:

US Alien 20.05.2019 09:41

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Birikina (Post 3069424)
Thank you all for the feedback... Next question...


After the interviews, were there a salary/contract negotiation or it is THE offer either take it or leave it?
:msnsarcastic:

HR will tell you upon the job offer. In my experience and with others, they say take it or leave it.

I hope it's enough but don't feel left out pinching for pennies earning 130kCHF with a family in CH!!! :eek:

roegner 20.05.2019 09:59

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by US Alien (Post 3069451)

I hope it's enough but don't feel left out pinching for pennies earning 130kCHF with a family in CH!!! :eek:


You realize that loads of families live well on less?

slammer 20.05.2019 10:15

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
You´re reading it wrong… It´s not "Lead" but "lead." :-)

Village Idiot 22.05.2019 15:48

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Birikina (Post 3069424)
After the interviews, were there a salary/contract negotiation or it is THE offer either take it or leave it?
:msnsarcastic:


There's no harm in trying to negotiate -- provided you remain professional about it, the worst that's likely to happen is that they will say "no". I can't imagine them rescinding the offer just because you tried to negotiate the salary.


In fact, you should negotiate hard. Novartis generally increases pay in line with inflation every year (~1% in the previous years) and does not offer additional increases in pay unless you receive a promotion to a new GJFA level or take on a role with significantly different responsibilities. So whatever you accept now, you're likely to be stuck with for a while. There won't be another chance to negotiate.

Guest 23.05.2019 16:51

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
My experience is that in the interview they ask the last salary from your last job and for salary expectation. Usually you would have a discussion about this in your telephone interview and if your expectation is aligned then they ask you to interview.


Usually, with Novartis, there is no wiggle room. They'll say this is the offer, take it or leave it, and they'll say they have another candidate in the waiting.


In general and only on my experiences, I found Novartis (and Roche) to be lower value compensation packages compared to smaller, mid sized pharma's in CH. SoI don't apply there or now lets say unless desperate, i won't apply there. Much better paying jobs and opps with smaller company's and most of the Big Pharma people are trying to run to the small pharma's anyways. Speaking to HR both in Nov and Roche, they have a hard time recruiting from the smaller company's. And once you're in a smaller company, wiht better compensation package, employers like Novartis don't look attractive anymore.

amogles 23.05.2019 17:03

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by slammer (Post 3069457)
You´re reading it wrong… It´s not "Lead" but "lead." :-)

:)

yeah, a copper is a police guy, and a lead is somebody who is a better denser than him.

meanwhile the guy at the top is top brass. But don't mention it or you'll zinc your career opportunities.

gipfelisturmer 24.05.2019 14:12

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by parkadam (Post 3070663)
My experience is that in the interview they ask the last salary from your last job ...

And you should blatantly ignore this question and say it's none of their business, not relevant, as you are applying for the current role with the skillset needed for that role.

liveby 21.11.2019 21:01

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
This might be a bit off topic, but I think is relevant. I've just relocated from the US where I held a job in the Academia, yet here am looking for a somewhat similar position in Pharma. I always was under the impression that Pharma pays much more than universities. But based on an offer I got it seems quite the opposite. The salary decrease - while going from Academia in the US/SF Bay area to Pharma in CH - I will have to put up with if I accept is 25%. And it is a 25% DECREASE, not an increase. Is this a reflection of my bad negotiation skills, or have you experienced something similar?

Plus no medical expenses are covered, and some other things lacking.

I am in Stats, and here is survey over salaries in the US. Pharma with Doctorate degree 10th percentile is 128.8K$/year. How does it sound relative to what is happening here?

https://magazine.amstat.org/blog/201...statisticians/

fatmanfilms 21.11.2019 21:10

Re: Novartis - Lead vs Head
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by liveby (Post 3122811)
This might be a bit off topic, but I think is relevant. I've just relocated from the US where I held a job in the Academia, yet here am looking for a somewhat similar position in Pharma. I always was under the impression that Pharma pays much more than universities. But based on an offer I got it seems quite the opposite. The salary decrease - while going from Academia in the US/SF Bay area to Pharma in CH - I will have to put up with if I accept is 25%. And it is a 25% DECREASE, not an increase. Is this a reflection of my bad negotiation skills, or have you experienced something similar?

Plus no medical expenses are covered, and some other things lacking.

I am in Stats, and here is survey over salaries in the US. Pharma with Doctorate degree 10th percentile is 128.8K$/year. How does it sound relative to what is happening here?

https://magazine.amstat.org/blog/201...statisticians/

What was your offer & for what EXACTLY? If pay is so good in the states why are you coming to CH to live in a shoebox?


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