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Old 13.05.2019, 20:53
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Work Certificate issue

Question: If there is some wording or a phrase in a work certificate that is arbitrary and could potentially prejudice a future employer or hurt one's chances of getting a new job, and the employer who issued this certificate refuses to remove said wording or phrase, is there some legal body that I may take this matter to?

Every other aspect of the certificate is fine. It is otherwise complimentary, there are no inaccuracies or coded words, although this objectionable wording or phrase could be construed as a code of sorts, and the reasons given for including it are arbitrary and spiteful.

The HR person was adamant about not removing this language. My lawyer contacted them and discussed the matter, described how it would be problematic to me in my job search and basically shot down their argument. Still, they won't budge. He said a legal action could be initiated, but I don't have legal insurance and any such action could be quite costly.

Someone once mentioned to me about a Labor court or someplace that one can go and get help with these matters at a minimal cost. Is this correct? If so, any information or guidance would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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Old 13.05.2019, 21:28
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Re: Work Certificate issue

Two things. First one is Arbeitsgericht. You don't need a lawyer to go there, you can go on your own. But you need to speak German. Second is Rechtsberatung. Zürcher Anwaltsverband has free legal counselling. 15 minutes slots so you need to be well prepared with questions and documents. They take place once a week at the Bezirksgericht so check for the closest one.
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Old 13.05.2019, 22:30
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Re: Work Certificate issue

You could also ask the RAV to help; they are interested to get you back to work quickly.
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Old 14.05.2019, 10:25
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Re: Work Certificate issue

To add to Marton's comment, if the RAV Zurich adviser sees your work certificate as a stumbling block to obtaining a new position, the adviser might refer you to "impuls", which can provide legal advice. Generally, RAV Zurich will need to refer you to "impuls":

https://www.sah-zh.ch/impuls/ueber-uns.html

https://www.sah-zh.ch/angebote/expertenwissen.html
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Old 14.05.2019, 10:32
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Re: Work Certificate issue

Is it too late to get legal insurance?
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Old 14.05.2019, 10:35
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Re: Work Certificate issue

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Is it too late to get legal insurance?
Yes.

Tom
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Old 14.05.2019, 20:12
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Re: Work Certificate issue

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Is it too late to get legal insurance?
I'm afraid so.
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Old 14.05.2019, 20:14
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Re: Work Certificate issue

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You could also ask the RAV to help; they are interested to get you back to work quickly.
Thing is, I am currently on sick leave and am awaiting surgery. So I have not registered with RAV yet.
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Old 15.05.2019, 07:21
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Re: Work Certificate issue

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Thing is, I am currently on sick leave and am awaiting surgery. So I have not registered with RAV yet.
I thought a person was supposed to register with RAV as soon as they know they'll be unemployed, otherwise there are penalties in terms of when payment start. If you're then sick or whatever they deal with it accordingly.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, it's happened a lot this week. I'd hate for OP to have a reduction in payments while at the same time facing medical issues.
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Old 15.05.2019, 07:26
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Re: Work Certificate issue

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Question: If there is some wording or a phrase in a work certificate that is arbitrary and could potentially prejudice a future employer or hurt one's chances of getting a new job, and the employer who issued this certificate refuses to remove said wording or phrase, is there some legal body that I may take this matter to?

Every other aspect of the certificate is fine. It is otherwise complimentary, there are no inaccuracies or coded words, although this objectionable wording or phrase could be construed as a code of sorts, and the reasons given for including it are arbitrary and spiteful.

The HR person was adamant about not removing this language. My lawyer contacted them and discussed the matter, described how it would be problematic to me in my job search and basically shot down their argument. Still, they won't budge. He said a legal action could be initiated, but I don't have legal insurance and any such action could be quite costly.

Someone once mentioned to me about a Labor court or someplace that one can go and get help with these matters at a minimal cost. Is this correct? If so, any information or guidance would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Never heard of a work certificate. Is it the same as a "reference"?
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Old 15.05.2019, 09:08
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Re: Work Certificate issue

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I thought a person was supposed to register with RAV as soon as they know they'll be unemployed, otherwise there are penalties in terms of when payment start. If you're then sick or whatever they deal with it accordingly.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, it's happened a lot this week. I'd hate for OP to have a reduction in payments while at the same time facing medical issues.
You don't need to register with the RAV straight away, you just need to make sure that when you do show up there you've got proof of having actively looked for work since the day you found out you were going to be made redundant.

That's the general info, but if you are officially signed off sick it may be different.
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Old 15.05.2019, 10:56
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Re: Work Certificate issue

Wrong. Apply to RAV immediately. Otherwise your unemployment benefits will be delayed a month or so.
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Old 15.05.2019, 11:05
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Re: Work Certificate issue

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Never heard of a work certificate. Is it the same as a "reference"?
A work certificate is what your employer writes ("certificato di lavoro" in Italian, "Zeugnis" in German)

Tom
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Old 15.05.2019, 11:30
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Re: Work Certificate issue

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A work certificate is what your employer writes ("certificato di lavoro" in Italian, "Zeugnis" in German)

Tom
But that's a reference.
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Old 15.05.2019, 11:35
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Re: Work Certificate issue

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But that's a reference.
A reference is more personal, something a colleague writes for you .. Or your manager..

The work certificate is the official defacto company HR doc .. Which may have
some similar content to a reference. edit : but also official start/end dates, disciplinary stuff, sick days, other official stuff


We get to see ours (at least managers do?) and/or question them long before we actually need to use them, no surprises.
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Old 15.05.2019, 12:06
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Re: Work Certificate issue

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Wrong. Apply to RAV immediately. Otherwise your unemployment benefits will be delayed a month or so.
Nope, you are the one that is wrong. As long as you register a week or so before hand it is fine. Done it few times now.
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Old 15.05.2019, 12:09
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Re: Work Certificate issue

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But that's a reference.
Nope, work certification is usually what contractors, like myself get. It just confirms the work period, the responsibilities and may be the skills used. No comment on whether you did a fantastic job or were terrible at it.

Not much good really and in 25+ years I have never been asked to produce one.
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Old 15.05.2019, 16:20
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Re: Work Certificate issue

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Nope, you are the one that is wrong. As long as you register a week or so before hand it is fine. Done it few times now.


Tipp 1: Melden Sie sich sofort nach der Kündigung beim RAV an. So erhalten Sie umfassende Infos über Ihre Pflichten während der Kündigungsfrist und Unterstützung bei der Stellensuche.


Tip 1: Log in to the RAV immediately after termination. This gives you complete information about your duties during the notice period and job search assistance.

https://www.beobachter.ch/arbeit/arb...-sie-kurzungen
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Old 15.05.2019, 16:23
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Re: Work Certificate issue

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Tipp 1: Melden Sie sich sofort nach der Kündigung beim RAV an. So erhalten Sie umfassende Infos über Ihre Pflichten während der Kündigungsfrist und Unterstützung bei der Stellensuche.


Tip 1: Log in to the RAV immediately after termination. This gives you complete information about your duties during the notice period and job search assistance.

https://www.beobachter.ch/arbeit/arb...-sie-kurzungen
It's only a tip, though. It makes sense if you need to understand what is required of you during your notice period and subsequent unemployment but you won't incur any penalty if you already fulfill the requirements and still only rock up there a week before you are due to leave your current position.
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Old 15.05.2019, 16:25
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Re: Work Certificate issue

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It's only a tip, though. It makes sense if you need to understand what is required of you during your notice period and subsequent unemployment but you won't incur any penalty if you already fulfill the requirements and still only rock up there a week before you are due to leave your current position.
Also stated: "Bereits während der Kündigungsfrist muss die Stellensuche aufgenommen werden, ansonsten drohen Einstelltage – und damit weniger Arbeitslosengeld "

"Already during the notice period, the job search must be started, otherwise threatening days of adjustment - and thus less unemployment benefits"
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