Were you legally allowed to collect/have/keep that evidence? Honest question as some things can bite you back

PS: having shares does not mean much, go to the next AG and you can speak up

If you can find a lawyer(who is willing to take the case and not personal involved , like connections from the lawyer or somebody he knows to the other party ), it will cost a lot of money(you can estimate the lawyer will charge around 300-400 sfr per hour).
You better have an insurance(to pay the lawyer) , otherwise the employer
can play "the slow" card, means the play goes until you got no money left.
You have to find the amount, wich is the value of the dispute, then you can calculate how much the lawyer can cost.

Forget it.

How is your left?

Tom

"Licensed to Ill"!

Tom

Sometimes it is better to be quiet (and search for a new opening/position) ,
switzerland is sometimes like a village, the people know each other and when
your name is a red flag, it will be hard to get a new position.

Well if you have the so called evidence and if you do not wish to publish it, then the best thing to do is to consult a lawyer rather than discussing it on a public forum.

However, you should note that whether your manger owns the company, it is a public company, or you have shares in it, is completely irrelevant. It will make no difference to your case.

Here is a link to a good summary of current Swiss labour law. Note that there is no concept of being treaded unfairly in the law, you are either being discriminated in accordance with the rules set out in the law or you are not.

Even if you win such a case, you can expect to receive no more in compensation that you actually lost as a result of the discrimination.

But anyways, as I said the best thing to do is consult a lawyer

__________________
"There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living." - Nelson Mandela

thanks a lot Jim, this really help to understand the basics before i proceed further with the issue


for those who are afraid and making jokes, this can happen to you also, a week before i could not imagine writing such a thread and boom here i am, life is so unpredictable, please take care and respect each other

Hi and sorry to hear of your predicament. I'd second the comments that this is a tough battle with potential limited financial gains (if any)

I'd recommend you get legal insurance and one that cover employment issues (the base cover often doesn't) - you usually have to wait 3 months before you can submit a claim so depends also on how urgent this situation you're in is. Regardless, I'd recommend it. As you say, these situations come unexpectedly and it's much better to have the possibility to talk with a professional than to feel alone and rely on a public forum

Like others I've seen many cases of misbehaviour by companies and witnessed a few friends struggling. The lawyer fees for an initial consultation can be around 600 CHF (if you go down that route, please discuss with the lawyer up front what you can and cannot afford) and in general the question is really on actual losses you suffered rather than any forecasted losses or "emotional damages" compensation. If there are health related consequences these are addressed by the health insurance and not expected to be "a burden" the employer carries

There are free resources available by the cantons - no harm in using those!

Also, be prepared so you can explain your case in a clear and concise way. What is the case, what is the proof, what do you expect out of it? The more you wobble around the more lawyers get paid (on the not free option).

Been here for 7 years and last year I finally got the legal insurance. It still pains me when I get the invoice, but I've seen a lot and it gives me peace of mind that if ever a similar situation comes to me I can talk with a professional and not be afraid to lose my shirt.

Best of luck!

AFAIK legal insurance does not cover something that happened before you had insurance coverage.

Indeed.

However, sometimes these things are not in the open and there isn't a process already kick-started. There's just uneasiness and resentment and not knowing what to do... in those cases, it may make sense to get legal insurance ASAP. It may be the situation resolves by itself which sometimes with introspection and a few honest conversations it does ...but, if not, in 3 months time (or whatever the period is for the particular insurance cover) you know you can ask for a third party legal opinion.

I don't know at which stage the OP is at ...and would in any case recommend it. Sometimes losing employment means in a few months you have to leave Switzerland if you don't find another job and then there can be issues with landlord or neighbors or cancelling contracts or other issues.

Just my two cents

Insurance is based on utmost good faith, unless you declared that uneasiness to the underwriters they likely will realise & not pay out.

So the amateur thinks he can beat the professional.... the only way this works is if you can ensure that the other party will not introduce any evidence relating to the period before the insurance came into force. Because once they do you have two problems - they will not be paying and you are at their mercy when it comes to deciding to filling a criminal complaint against you!

Wow, this is taking a pretty hard turn... I understand the concept of insurance, I even understand pricing of insurance, hell in a past life I built the pricing models!

I'm not advocating doing anything illegal or hiding evidence from the insurer. As part of the normal conversation with the agent you'll be asked a ton of questions, from my experience they understand the risks e.g. when I asked about including employer legal cover I mentioned there were several reorgs happening and I didn't want to be caught without protection ... and insurance agent said this was perfectly legit and happened all the time i.e. it's usually when there is uneasiness that people realize they might benefit from protection.

If there is an ongoing legal process, the insurer is likely not to accept the risk. If not, they may sell you the cover as is, adjust pricing depending on how they assess the risk or they may say no.

There is a reason insurers have this period before you can claim. The one I contracted with was 3 months, others may have other periods. Same reason when I moved from semi-private to private health insurance I was told I would not be able to claim pregnancy until 12 months had passed. I.e. insurers assess their risk and put in place the necessary covers to ensure they are profitable.

Finally... if you do make a claim in 3 months time and want to use evidence of things that happened a year ago... that's not illegal either. Usually these processes are not straightforward and there's a pile of evidence that you need to collect before you actually decide to claim.

So apologies if it sounded like I was advocating scamming the insurer. I'm not. I'm advocating getting legal insurance as I found that useful and I've seen enough cases of friends and colleagues scrambling. They often end up relying on forums like this or hearsay ... and in my view nothing beats a professional advice in a legal case.

Hope that helps the OP and anyone else facing a similar situation.

You were not suggesting to disclose the information so the insurers could assess the risk, to enable them to correctly price or decline the risk.

I suggested the OP get legal insurance.
I've said if there's a legal process in place it is unlikely the insurer will accept risk.
I've said if there isn't one as part of the conversation with the insurer (or agent) the question will come up as to why you want it and there's a questionnaire you fill - to be 100% clear, my recommendation is that OP answers truthfully.
I've said insurer adjust their no-claim periods and pricing on the basis of their experience and that insurers know people take legal insurance often when they feel a pinch and not before (could be that they themselves are uneasy or that the environment took a turn e.g. layoffs or that they've seen friends and colleagues suffer) ... hence the 3 month no-claim period for this type of insurance and the provider I went for.
It is the insurer responsibility to assess the risk, not the OP's. And I can add insurance in Switzerland has very good margins so I don't think in general they do that bad of a job!

I've tried to clarify the recommendation once I understood you understood I was suggesting the OP do something illegal.

There's not much more I can do. We can go back & forth but I don't think it adds anything positive so I'll leave it at that.

And my job in a past life was catching the delinquents.

Yes you were.

The problem with editing & then lying when you have already been quoted is that some people will notice. You were clearly advocation trying to pull the wool over the insurers eyes in the first quote

That's called "normal Swiss employment conditions".

Seriously, I was extremely badly treated by one employer here. In the UK it would have been open and shut and ££££££

However, having had the advice of a very experienced HR professional, I managed to get a mutual agreement to separate and quite a lot of CHF to leave quietly, plus some things that aren't normally part of a pay off. All because I dropped a single word, that I still don't really understand the implications of, into a conversation between me, HR and my managers. It probably meant I had a reasonable case against them under contract law. The first thing my HR friend told me was to consider my employment with the company over. The strategy now was to get the best exit agreement.

Focus on your goal. Do you really want to be a whistleblower and no career? Or do you want a reasonable pay off to cushion you until you find a new job? By all means, consult an employment lawyer. They may help you in the way my HR friend helped me. But focus on what you want to get out of it, and the likelihood of getting it.

Worst comes to worst - there's more than one type of contract. if revenge is your thing.

__________________
Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

I really think you should get a lawyer and sue


The subsequent thread would be hilarious, especially during the quiet summer period.

You can get fired without reason, with 1-3 months notice (regular Swiss contract, depending how long you've been to the company.).

Don't like it? Sign a different contract..