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  #61  
Old 13.04.2021, 14:56
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

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How is it the companies business if someone can afford kindergarten?

Candidates that go through the process and then reject the offer are part and parcel of doing business.

The family may opt to use savings to pay for kindergarten, or have an aunt/grandparent, or something else.... they may choose to put up the kids for adoption - but that's their choice.

As a manager, I'm here to support my staff... but I will NOT dictate how they lead their private lives.
Of course you won't dictate anyone life, I just shared that I can see such questions as a way to see if candidate is aware of the costs.

(@curley thanks for the clarification and especially about naming! )

Yes, candidates have every right to reject the offer, however, in interest of the company is to avoid stupid rejections, since that's expensive, that's the whole point of the hiring process, to find a suitable candidate, no?

So if I know that my budget as a company is low, and person has kids, chances are bigger they'll reject the offer, so one way to see if they thought about it properly is to ask them, because some salaries might look fine until you weigh in all costs.

And judging from HR friend experience, a lot of folks are utterly clueless and just push for the process.


My partner got rejected instead of getting the offer with words 'we argued a lot about this and with much regret we decline you, we think you won't be happy here even though we all like what you can do and we all would like to work with you'.
So, at the very very end of really exhausting and otherwise successful process.
And that hurt a lot. However, an hour after the fact, after a lot of talking, we had to agree with them. Pity it wasn't more obvious during the whole process, to spare time and energy on it.

I'm glad they rejected him, because there's a big chance we would dismiss things as less important, and that would definitely lead to stress along the lines. Maybe not in first few months, but who knows.

We have no clue about what job is in question, for example, for shift worker I also see how 'do you have kids' could be meaningful - mum who loves her kids and not be able to see them properly until the weekend will be highly stressful for them all.

So, it all depends on the job, on the whole context.

Sometimes employers are aware of some cons we employees might not be, and they want to test/share it. It would be stupid of them not to, because that means losing money - if employee left in a few months because they're utterly not happy there. Hiring process and training process cost time and money. In the interest of every company is to be the most efficient there they can.

So in short, I don't believe all screening process is there to do you wrong, and that more than your working skills alone determine if you're really a suitable candidate.
Because you're whole being with many things going on, you can't shut down personal self the moment you enter the office nor in your personal time be completely unaffected by your work.
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Old 13.04.2021, 15:20
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

My view on this is that as an interviewee I'm judging the company based on their questions.

If they ask questions you don't like in the interview, that's better than finding out the company is bad for you after being hired.

Of course the companies shouldn't be discriminatory in the first place, and IMO being discriminatory is dumb the pool of workers in Switzerland is small enough without excluding people based on characteristics irrelevant to the job, but reality is that some are.
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  #63  
Old 13.04.2021, 15:46
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

Just realised I might have asked questions I shouldn't but than .what would I be talking about with the prospect employee ?
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Old 13.04.2021, 15:58
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

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I just shared that I can see such questions as a way to see if candidate is aware of the costs.

.
If that is what the question is all about it should be asked directly. The appropriate way to ask that question then is 'Have you researched cost of living in Switzerland?".

Ditto for all other personal factors. Make the requirements of a job clear and ask directly whether the candidate is able to meet that particular business need.

For instance, ask "The job often requires overtime and flexible scheduling at short notice. Are you able to meet this requirement?". Do not ask "Do you have children?" and then make assumptions on ability to meet a business need based on answers to such indirect questions.

Any questions where marital or family status are needed for tax, permit or other administrative purposes should be prefaced with that information.
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  #65  
Old 13.04.2021, 15:59
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

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Just realised I might have asked questions I shouldn't but than .what would I be talking about with the prospect employee ?
Couple of issues actually
1) If it's a women then it's sexist - and typically pregnancy, child care questions are asked to women
2) Your intention's may be good but it has unwanted repercussions i) Other interviewers in the interview may take the answer to that question as a negative ii) As in Interviewee it is very rude and not welcoming at all.
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  #66  
Old 13.04.2021, 16:05
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

One can cover it up with taxation laws and HR and child care costs and friendly banter, but if it stinks it's rotten and the candidate in question has realised that.

Good luck for the next interview atleast you know what to expect.
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  #67  
Old 13.04.2021, 20:30
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

Some jobs are performed mostly in isolation, such as, for example, sole lab or maths research, or a guard's duties.

For any other kind of work at all, where there will be interaction with other team members and superiors and juniors, and especially when the work will include dealing with clients or suppliers, etc., I want to know whether the candidate is capable of having an ordinary, everyday interaction, being polite and friendly, without quickly feeling offended or wanting to seek some sort of legal redress.
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  #68  
Old 13.04.2021, 20:48
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

Just ask the candidate to talk about themselves for 2 minutes, if they don't give anything away then they don't make the short list, simple as that. Anyone who does not want children will say so immediately.
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Old 13.04.2021, 21:26
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

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Just ask the candidate to talk about themselves for 2 minutes, if they don't give anything away then they don't make the short list, simple as that. Anyone who does not want children will say so immediately.

That wont work. I interview... uhmm... probably around 4 people a week, give or take. The entry question is always tell me about yourself. The default response is the candidate recapping their CV and work history.


Further, on the children front - I don't want children, but would NEVER dream of saying that in an interview...
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Old 13.04.2021, 21:32
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

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That wont work. I interview... uhmm... probably around 4 people a week, give or take. The entry question is always tell me about yourself. The default response is the candidate recapping their CV and work history.
I stop them right there and say that I've read the cv, and would like to know about them as a person, for example what they enjoy, what they think is important in life, what kind of interests they pursue, how things have changed for them in the past decade, etc.
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  #71  
Old 13.04.2021, 22:01
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

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Kindergarden is free in Switzerland. And part of the schooling they are meant to do.

Childcare is expensive, that only bothers people with children younger than 4 years old.
Kindergarten is free to attend but if both partner work then lunch time and afternoon care is required and that can be quite expensive. I believe this is what was referred to.
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Old 13.04.2021, 22:08
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

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Just ask the candidate to talk about themselves for 2 minutes, if they don't give anything away then they don't make the short list, simple as that. Anyone who does not want children will say so immediately.
Not everyone works with the creative types. 2 minutes talking about oneself? You expect too much of me and my colleagues
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  #73  
Old 14.04.2021, 08:52
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

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I stop them right there and say that I've read the cv, and would like to know about them as a person, for example what they enjoy, what they think is important in life, what kind of interests they pursue, how things have changed for them in the past decade, etc.
Depending on the character, you risk making them very uneasy and nervous. The start of an interview should (imo) help the candidate feel at ease and get them into the flow of things. That 2-5 minute "chit chat" at the start is really useful to calm people down, as otherwise you risk missing some amazing candidates who are just very very nervous.

Note, there are a lot of theories and methodologies on interview techniques. Over the years I've mixed and matched what works for me YMMV.

For example, I know of people that use stress interviews; and I was on the receiving end of one years ago. I find them fairly useless, as I performed very well (and got the offer), mainly because I didn't want the job... and was just interviewing to practice for the job I actually wanted. That quickly made me realize that the technique wouldn't really be useful in most cases...
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  #74  
Old 14.04.2021, 09:22
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

So going back to the original question - who can one complain to in Switzerland. In the UK ACAS would be the first port of call where one can speak to an employment solicitor for free and then the Citizens Advise.

The Citizens Advise also has a whole raft of pre-employment discrimination including agen, sex, pregnancy etc etc ...

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/wo...ing-for-a-job/

I suppose one issue in Switzerland is the language unless we search in German you may not get the the correct department.
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Old 14.04.2021, 09:39
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

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Depending on the character, you risk making them very uneasy and nervous. The start of an interview should (imo) help the candidate feel at ease and get them into the flow of things. That 2-5 minute "chit chat" at the start is really useful to calm people down, as otherwise you risk missing some amazing candidates who are just very very nervous.

Note, there are a lot of theories and methodologies on interview techniques. Over the years I've mixed and matched what works for me YMMV.

For example, I know of people that use stress interviews; and I was on the receiving end of one years ago. I find them fairly useless, as I performed very well (and got the offer), mainly because I didn't want the job... and was just interviewing to practice for the job I actually wanted. That quickly made me realize that the technique wouldn't really be useful in most cases...
Depending on the role, if they are nervous & uneasy when they meet someone, they are hardly suitable for any client facing role of any description. Unless it's a lower paid job, I can't see them making the short list except perhaps in IT
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  #76  
Old 14.04.2021, 09:45
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

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Depending on the character, you risk making them very uneasy and nervous. The start of an interview should (imo) help the candidate feel at ease and get them into the flow of things. That 2-5 minute "chit chat" at the start is really useful to calm people down, as otherwise you risk missing some amazing candidates who are just very very nervous.
Yes, you certainly have a point, and I've also been subjected to a stress interview, as a candidate, and found it absurd.

When I agreed with fatmanfilms, above, that it's a good idea to ask a candidate to talk about themselves for a few minutes, I didn't mean that those should be the very first minutes of an interview. You're right: no point in making a person unnecessarily uneasy and nervous. I ask them that only once some comfortable-making chit-chat has taken place, some personal, some about the job, some about the location, which all usually works out just fine.

I'm very interested in finding out whether the person can engage enough to fit in well with the others in the team, and whether they know ways to be sufficiently at ease to maintain a polite, friendly conversation with someone they've only just met (which is likely to apply to new colleagues, to clients and suppliers, etc.).

Example recently: two of us welcomed the candidate just as we always do, including where to hang up his jacket, a place to wash his hands, a glass of water and a chair with a good view of the whole room, etc. Then we each spoke a little about our respective roles and of how we arrange our work well together. We mentioned his home country and mine, and how it was that we each came to live in Switzerland and how long ago that had been. He spoke a bit about the actual work content. However, when we asked the candidate anything at all, he replied with one single word only. Full-stop. Clunk. Asked to tell us something about himself, he managed just three sentences which were grammatically correct but minimal, providing no information beyond the single words he'd already just used, making no eye-contact, and letting the conversation go cold again, dragging - depite my colleague's and my best efforts - to an awkward halt. We spent considerable time and effort trying to get beyond this, and trying to find out what the candidate needed.

I've never known quite such an interview failure, and by failure I mean that that neither my co-interviewer nor I ever felt we'd managed to break the ice. In the end, he decided to hire him anyway because he believes that he'll be able to do the job well, but I'm a long way from convinced. We shall see if they can prove me wrong. I hope so.
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Old 14.04.2021, 11:03
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

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Depending on the role, if they are nervous & uneasy when they meet someone, they are hardly suitable for any client facing role of any description. Unless it's a lower paid job, I can't see them making the short list except perhaps in IT
What are you talking about mate, this is the twitter and instagram generation.
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Old 14.04.2021, 11:18
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

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My partner got rejected instead of getting the offer with words 'we argued a lot about this and with much regret we decline you, we think you won't be happy here even though we all like what you can do and we all would like to work with you'.
So, at the very very end of really exhausting and otherwise successful process.
And that hurt a lot. However, an hour after the fact, after a lot of talking, we had to agree with them. Pity it wasn't more obvious during the whole process, to spare time and energy on it.

I'm glad they rejected him, because there's a big chance we would dismiss things as less important, and that would definitely lead to stress along the lines. Maybe not in first few months, but who knows.

We have no clue about what job is in question, for example, for shift worker I also see how 'do you have kids' could be meaningful - mum who loves her kids and not be able to see them properly until the weekend will be highly stressful for them all.

So, it all depends on the job, on the whole context.
.
I wouldn't be surprised if they'd hire him after a couple of years if he decides to apply again, I know people rejected by HR via semi-arrogant e-mails and hired by project managers after a while...Highly skilled/good employees are hard to come by despite some narrow-minded folks from HR might think.

Hang in there.
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Old 14.04.2021, 11:24
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

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What are you talking about mate, this is the twitter and instagram generation.
Used to be

Tiktok is turning the interviewees into confident showmen, used to self-branding.
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Old 14.04.2021, 22:16
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Re: Illegal job interview questions

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I wouldn't be surprised if they'd hire him after a couple of years if he decides to apply again, I know people rejected by HR via semi-arrogant e-mails and hired by project managers after a while...Highly skilled/good employees are hard to come by despite some narrow-minded folks from HR might think.

Hang in there.
No, it was at the end of the process, so, hiring manager, HR and few potential teammates in one call. Nothing arrogant, actually very eye opening for both sides. Ok, could be delivered a bit better, but I guess they were very confused and inexperienced how to reject such great candidate but who wouldn't like it there. He really wouldn't, after all is said and done Rough delivery but it really would be a mistake to accept that job.

And that was for Berlin, now target is Zürich, so, no repeating.

Just wanted to share an example of how employer can reject you (at the time point when the offer should be given) because they realized you won't be happy there, and therefore, you aren't suitable for that job.

As opposed to the thought on this topic that companies reject 'against you', this was rejection 'for you', since they had a better overview and experience and they luckily recognized it at the right time.
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