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  #21  
Old 26.06.2019, 19:57
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Re: Salary Negotiation

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Everyone in the management know that but couldn't do anything.
Well... i see this sort of thing as management hiding behind corporate policy. Who do you think makes this policy ? Its written in stone only because they say so, Swiss law does not dictate a system with grades and salary bands. Companies do. Not giving you a raise for this reason is just bullshit....

Last edited by BasP72; 26.06.2019 at 20:17.
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Old 26.06.2019, 21:45
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Re: Salary Negotiation

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Well... i see this sort of thing as management hiding behind corporate policy. Who do you think makes this policy ? Its written in stone only because they say so, Swiss law does not dictate a system with grades and salary bands. Companies do. Not giving you a raise for this reason is just bullshit....

Exactly, that's how people change their moral values inside a corporation. I don't even remember exactly but I guess it was said with a clear meaning that no one could do anything about that without any effort or risk of getting lower evaluation themselves


My take home lesson is, never stay in a job more than 2 years if you don't get a promotion, but if it's convenient to stay than why not, but don't take the BS evaluation to yourself.
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  #23  
Old 27.06.2019, 11:52
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Re: Salary Negotiation

Just to add - many company's do salary benchmarking and define the salary/compensation they'll offer. The question is to where are they benchmarking. I work in pharma for example and years ago in the US I was offered a job with a salary that was 20 to 30 percent less than other pharma companys.


As this company was held by a chemical company, it benchmarked to chemical industry. Where that salary for my level was considerd "fair market value" and thus "high" for the "chemical industry".


You'll find this as well in CH - you find salary between Pharma and Medical Device quite different, with Medical Device being much lower, and can be in the same company.


For example, Roche Diagnostics benchmarks its salary different thatn Roche Pharma. When I interviewed at Roche Diagnotics many years ago, they "balked" at my Pharma "base" salary, they thought that that salary included by Bonus. They were quite stupid, because after that phone call they invited me for F2F, and again, in-person Balked at my salary at my Pharma firm. Their compensation package beyond Salary was not that inspring.


Then you have Big Pharma's like Novartis, where they'll give you an offer with the salary, ...TAKE IT..OR ..LEAVE IT...and they'll tell you that. Why? because it's an employer's market in the pharma sector and they have candidates lined up. So Zero negotiation. And friend at ABB tells me same can be found there.


And even in pharma the big ones still pay lower than say the smaller mid-pharmas, which not only pay better but have better packages - i.e. stock options, ESPP, bonus schme, and company cars.


So be mindful on where you CAN negotiate and where you can't and company has a back up - in theory the salary should NOT, and repeat should NOT be suprise as that dicussion should be held UPFRONT interms of expectations.


For example, (I'll use a made up salary expectation, 100 K as my example) but when the conversation is initated with me, my first HR phone call, and they as my expectation, usally I'll say my base salary expection is no lower that 100 K , with target bonus of 20 percent, if that's not aligned with the salary being offered for the job, then I perhasp we can save some time on this call.


It works for me, I started doing that after my Roche Diagnostics experience and so far its been a good approach for me. I don't have time to waste.


Note to the edit: Just so i'm clear, I deploy that as today or for the past few years, I've been fortunate to be in a BATNA situtation of walk-away. Nobody pushing me out the door at my current employer per se, which is the best spot to be when looking for jobs, I know not everybody has that BATNA.
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  #24  
Old 27.06.2019, 14:50
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Re: Salary Negotiation

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Well... i see this sort of thing as management hiding behind corporate policy. Who do you think makes this policy ? Its written in stone only because they say so, Swiss law does not dictate a system with grades and salary bands. Companies do. Not giving you a raise for this reason is just bullshit....
In Geneva, the banks and finance companies share their salary ladders and conditions for different job descriptions. It's one of the big 4 consulting companies that compiles the list. When offering a job the employer can see what salary / benefits range is offered by other employers for a particular job. I was hired as an IT manager at a private bank and they used this approach to make me an offer. My asking salary was at the top end of the range but they acceded to it as I brought additional skills to the job.

I am sure that this method is used elsewhere in CH.
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  #25  
Old 27.06.2019, 22:11
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Re: Salary Negotiation

Isn'it Towers Watson?


https://www.towerswatson.com/en/Serv...-data-services


I know one big private bank that is using their services...
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  #26  
Old 27.06.2019, 22:55
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Re: Salary Negotiation

I think one should take the opportunity and negotiate at the time of offer being made as once you join the company you will be at the mercy of your next appraisal process and I wouldn’t suggest you wait for another year especially when you have a chance to negotiate now.
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  #27  
Old 27.06.2019, 23:22
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Re: Salary Negotiation

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In Geneva, the banks and finance companies share their salary ladders and conditions for different job descriptions. It's one of the big 4 consulting companies that compiles the list. When offering a job the employer can see what salary / benefits range is offered by other employers for a particular job. I was hired as an IT manager at a private bank and they used this approach to make me an offer. My asking salary was at the top end of the range but they acceded to it as I brought additional skills to the job.

I am sure that this method is used elsewhere in CH.
Is cartel forming like this legal ?
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  #28  
Old 28.06.2019, 07:08
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Re: Salary Negotiation

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Is cartel forming like this legal ?
It’s not cartel forming it’s “benchmarking”. I’ve seen a lot of these reports over the years, but certainly not one that’s shows that Pictet pays 100k-110k for an IT manager grade whatever and HSBC pays 98k-112k. Normally they aren’t as granular for individual roles and anonymise the specific firm.
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  #29  
Old 23.07.2019, 20:20
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Re: Salary Negotiation

A small update: got through the 2nd interview, got an offer, which had pretty much the same number they had announced before. Because the cumulative monthly salary landed around the median mark as given by Salarium, I tried to negotiate by providing a slightly higher number. They didn't budge saying that's already high and is adequate to the position, place, etc.
So now I am weighing whether to decline it altogether or risk and come.
The amount in question is around 120K (including a bonus) for a family of 4 in AG.
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  #30  
Old 24.07.2019, 09:52
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Re: Salary Negotiation

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A small update: got through the 2nd interview, got an offer, which had pretty much the same number they had announced before. Because the cumulative monthly salary landed around the median mark as given by Salarium, I tried to negotiate by providing a slightly higher number. They didn't budge saying that's already high and is adequate to the position, place, etc.
So now I am weighing whether to decline it altogether or risk and come.
The amount in question is around 120K (including a bonus) for a family of 4 in AG.

I expect you'll survive on that with a bit of common sense, a lot of people survive on far less but maybe have more common sense
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  #31  
Old 24.07.2019, 16:06
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Re: Salary Negotiation

Well congrats on the offer. To be frank, and others will probably disagree with me, I just don't see the point in relocating here unless the money is really good or you are avid skiers/outdoor enthusiasts who just love nature. You don't mention how old the kids are or what your wife does? Are the kids of school age? Will they stay at home with mom or go to a nursery? Will your wife be happy sitting at home in Argau not being able to speak German? All of these are considerations with financial implications. For example, a private nursery costs 2K per month per child. If you want your kids to learn German and attend the local schools (which is advised) its really the best way for them to integrate and learn German. The more info you provide the easier it will be to assess if you will have a decent life here on 120K. Plenty of people will say "oh 120K is a massive salary and the average Swiss lives on 60K" but that average Swiss family may have a stay at home mom speaking fluent Swiss German to her kids and having no need to expensive childcare.
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  #32  
Old 24.07.2019, 20:48
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Re: Salary Negotiation

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A small update: got through the 2nd interview, got an offer, which had pretty much the same number they had announced before. Because the cumulative monthly salary landed around the median mark as given by Salarium, I tried to negotiate by providing a slightly higher number. They didn't budge saying that's already high and is adequate to the position, place, etc.
So now I am weighing whether to decline it altogether or risk and come.
The amount in question is around 120K (including a bonus) for a family of 4 in AG.
Congrats and oh yes you can live quite nice with a family of 4 in Kt AG
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  #33  
Old 24.07.2019, 20:50
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Re: Salary Negotiation

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Well congrats on the offer. To be frank, and others will probably disagree with me, I just don't see the point in relocating here unless the money is really good or you are avid skiers/outdoor enthusiasts who just love nature. You don't mention how old the kids are or what your wife does? Are the kids of school age? Will they stay at home with mom or go to a nursery? Will your wife be happy sitting at home in Argau not being able to speak German? All of these are considerations with financial implications. For example, a private nursery costs 2K per month per child. If you want your kids to learn German and attend the local schools (which is advised) its really the best way for them to integrate and learn German. The more info you provide the easier it will be to assess if you will have a decent life here on 120K. Plenty of people will say "oh 120K is a massive salary and the average Swiss lives on 60K" but that average Swiss family may have a stay at home mom speaking fluent Swiss German to her kids and having no need to expensive childcare.
Salary is not everything. It can also be a great personal experience to relocate here and do not forget that experience abroad looks good on your CV
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  #34  
Old 24.07.2019, 21:13
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Re: Salary Negotiation

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Well congrats on the offer. To be frank, and others will probably disagree with me, I just don't see the point in relocating here unless the money is really good or you are avid skiers/outdoor enthusiasts who just love nature. You don't mention how old the kids are or what your wife does? Are the kids of school age? Will they stay at home with mom or go to a nursery? Will your wife be happy sitting at home in Argau not being able to speak German? All of these are considerations with financial implications. For example, a private nursery costs 2K per month per child. If you want your kids to learn German and attend the local schools (which is advised) its really the best way for them to integrate and learn German. The more info you provide the easier it will be to assess if you will have a decent life here on 120K. Plenty of people will say "oh 120K is a massive salary and the average Swiss lives on 60K" but that average Swiss family may have a stay at home mom speaking fluent Swiss German to her kids and having no need to expensive childcare.
Brian, just remind me again, how many people have been knived in London this year so far ?

Don’t even need all my fingers on one hand to count how many have happened in Switzerland this year.

Money isn’t everything, you may not know it or be able, but Chf 120k per year is a good salary here with good quality living.
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Old 25.07.2019, 09:21
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Re: Salary Negotiation

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Brian, just remind me again, how many people have been knived in London this year so far ?

Don’t even need all my fingers on one hand to count how many have happened in Switzerland this year.

Money isn’t everything, you may not know it or be able, but Chf 120k per year is a good salary here with good quality living.
OP is from Vancouver, widely considered to be one of the best and safest cities to live in in the world. On top of that, it has the mountains and the ocean at your doorstep.

Money isn't indeed everything, but Brian made some good points. A trailing spouse and children need to be considered.

OP congratulations! 120,000 CHF is a nice salary. Please also keep in mind that health insurance for a family is also quite expensive in Switzerland. You will pay less taxes than you do in Canada...but it will still be an additional +/- 1000 CHF to factor into your budget each month.
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  #36  
Old 25.07.2019, 09:26
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Re: Salary Negotiation

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OP is from Vancouver, widely considered to be one of the best and safest cities to live in in the world. On top of that, it has the mountains and the ocean at your doorstep.

Money isn't indeed everything, but Brian made some good points. A trailing spouse and children need to be considered.

OP congratulations! Please also keep in mind that health insurance for a family is also quite expensive in Switzerland. You will pay less taxes than you do in Canada...but it will still be an additional +/- 1000 CHF to factor into your budget each month.



It clearly states, Brian lives in London which presumably he is comparing to living in Switzerland
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  #37  
Old 25.07.2019, 15:14
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Re: Salary Negotiation

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It clearly states, Brian lives in London which presumably he is comparing to living in Switzerland
For the record, I live in Zug, and purely for tax purposes given my high income. But, with all the shiny new BMW police cars flying around Zug with their sirens on, you would think the crime rate here is as high as it is in London!
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  #38  
Old 25.07.2019, 16:33
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Re: Salary Negotiation

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For the record, I live in Zug, and purely for tax purposes given my high income. But, with all the shiny new BMW police cars flying around Zug with their sirens on, you would think the crime rate here is as high as it is in London!



You got a big willy too ?
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  #39  
Old 25.07.2019, 17:39
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Re: Salary Negotiation

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given my high income
continue
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  #40  
Old 25.07.2019, 21:24
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Re: Salary Negotiation

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Brian, just remind me again, how many people have been knived in London this year so far ?
Zug has had its share of murders and massacres in the past.
Crazy people anywhere you go
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