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-   -   Recurring unemployment (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/292822-recurring-unemployment.html)

tampepan 02.07.2019 19:34

Recurring unemployment
 
For the past 10 years I did not have a fixed job. I have been on chomage 4 times between 6-12 months each time. The question is that how many times one can be on unemployement benefits? I am on chomage for 8 months so far, but this time my advisor wants me to do an internship as a cashier in COOP or Migros. I have a Master degree and do not want to do it. Can he penalize me for not accepting such an internship?

eireann 02.07.2019 22:19

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
As the "chomage" is your employer, in general you have to do what they propose, but depending on your advisor maybe you can discuss. They will see it as an opportunity for you to build your network and gain new skills. And you will look more attractive as an employee when job searching. Have you discussed other programs that they have that may give you the opportunity to work at something closer to your background?


I don't think there is a limit to how many times you can be on chomage - however, there are criteria that you need to fulfill to qualify for it.



https://www.vs.ch/web/sict/droits-et-devoirs-du-chomeur
https://www.guidechomage.ch/ (I like the layout of this one!).

doropfiz 02.07.2019 22:55

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
The unemployment office can suggest/urge you to do on any course/internship/training/work-programme that the advisor decides might increase your chances of becoming employed.

If you think a particular measure that your advisor suggests is not the right thing for you, then you may need to show the advisor that you have done something else/different/more/impressive which is more worthy of your attention by one criterion only: it is more likely to increase your chances of becoming employed. A winner for this is often, but not always, to make great strides learning the local language.


Here's a related thread - with ideas in different directions - which might help you think through ways to either go along with the advisor's proposal fairly peacefully, or to change something else to turn things for the better. See page 2.
https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...tory-12-a.html

nigelr 03.07.2019 20:15

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
I think if you have a master's degree but haven't had a fixed job in 10 years then a career change is a good idea, give coop or migros a chance.

What's your master's in?

Samaire13 04.07.2019 09:14

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tampepan (Post 3080387)
For the past 10 years I did not have a fixed job. I have been on chomage 4 times between 6-12 months each time. The question is that how many times one can be on unemployement benefits? I am on chomage for 8 months so far, but this time my advisor wants me to do an internship as a cashier in COOP or Migros. I have a Master degree and do not want to do it. Can he penalize me for not accepting such an internship?

A Masters Degree in what?

The unemployment office is currently your employer. Refusing to do what they ask you to do is the equivalent to telling your boss to eff off if he wants you to do something. Up to you to decide whether you would do that or not.

That said, options have to be within reason, generally speaking. At the same time beggars can only be choosers to an extent (that's of course metaphorically speaking). A Masters degree per se hardly exempts you from doing a job that you apparently perceive to be beneath you. If you refuse to do it yet have no alternative yourself, your payouts will be minimized, but they can't quite refuse to pay you at all. Yet.

tampepan 13.07.2019 13:51

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
In Mechanical engineering. I know there are not much jobs in my field, but they can help me change my field to something more trendy like computer science or software (I am attending some courses for software developement, machine learning) but not to a cashier job.

doropfiz 13.07.2019 14:13

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
I can understand that you might not like the idea of working as a cashier. Who would, after all? I don't think I've ever yet met a cashier who really liked his or her job. I do know several, though, who started out as a cashier and now have more interesting and challenging jobs in the same company.

However, you're making a fundamental error - in your understanding of the Swiss unemployment system - if you believe that "they can help" you towards A but not to B, where A is "computer science or software" and B is "a cashier job".

You see, the main aim of the unemployment officers is to… get you off their payroll. Therefore, they can (an in may, and also must) propose any and every kind of work that they deem necessary.

Sometimes, those officers take poor decisions, and unemployed people get sent on silly courses or daft "work experience training", etc. That's really annoying and seems like a complete waste of time and energy. Other times, the suggestions are ideal, the courses supply exactly what is needed to lead to a real job. Other times, such measures unexpectedly turn out to be really good, even though they seemed unlikely or off-putting from the start. In between, there's a range where the course, or the work itself is unsatisfactory, but by being there, one gets to know someone who knows someone and suddenly a door to real employment is open.

My main point is: the unemployment office cannot force you to do anything. They do, however, set the rules. This includes how many jobs you have to apply for, how often you have to come back and talk to them, which courses you must attend, and what kind of work they think you ought to be ready to try out. You are free to say YES or NO to the suggestions. But if you say NO, then you will be deemed to be uncooperative, whereupon they will reduce (or in the worst case stop) the moneys that they are now paying to you.

It is for this reason that people often say that being on unemployment benefits is like being employed by the unemployment office. Just like when really employed, you have a duty to do what is required of you and, failing that, you can be dismissed. You're still always free to choose, within the defined framework.

So yes, they CAN set you working as a cashier as a pre-requisite to continuing to receive unemployment benefits.

Jim2007 13.07.2019 16:07

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tampepan (Post 3082754)
In Mechanical engineering. I know there are not much jobs in my field, but they can help me change my field to something more trendy like computer science or software (I am attending some courses for software developement, machine learning) but not to a cashier job.

Lets suppose for a minute that they actually were willing to help you... it would take perhaps a year or may be 18 of courses etc.... and then you'd have it on paper, but without some good experience to go with it, you'd still be unemployed...

The purpose of the RAV is to get you back in employment ASAP and paying your unemployment benefits plus courses only to have you still unemployed is not it. In fact it would be a waste of resources from their point of view.

If you want to make this happen, then you are going to have to do it. Take the cashier job, or whatever else to keep you going while you do. A very good friend of mine, worked 6 years as a labourer on building sites to put himself through college at night to get his degree in CS, before he was able to make the switch.

omtatsat 13.07.2019 17:01

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tampepan (Post 3080387)
For the past 10 years I did not have a fixed job. I have been on chomage 4 times between 6-12 months each time. The question is that how many times one can be on unemployement benefits? I am on chomage for 8 months so far, but this time my advisor wants me to do an internship as a cashier in COOP or Migros. I have a Master degree and do not want to do it. Can he penalize me for not accepting such an internship?

Look at it on the positive side-at least you are consistent:D

BasP72 13.07.2019 19:20

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
I think after a certain age (30 ?) They cannot force you into a field you were not trained for, something nothing to do with your profession. I would look for the official rule regarding this, show a printout of this to your advisor and tell him no. Then to show your willingness, ask about retraining into something mechanics related and cool like truck driver, gunsmithing or airplane mechanic.

omtatsat 13.07.2019 21:19

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BasP72 (Post 3082807)
I think after a certain age (30 ?) They cannot force you into a field you were not trained for, something nothing to do with your profession. I would look for the official rule regarding this, show a printout of this to your advisor and tell him no. Then to show your willingness, ask about retraining into something mechanics related and cool like truck driver, gunsmithing or airplane mechanic.

I think they can force one. And there is a limited time one can stay on unemployment relief. After that they put you on social relief. That's the end of the line and you will be stigmatized by the Swiss if you find yourself getting social money.

Chuff 13.07.2019 21:54

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tampepan (Post 3080387)
For the past 10 years I did not have a fixed job. I have been on chomage 4 times between 6-12 months each time. The question is that how many times one can be on unemployement benefits? I am on chomage for 8 months so far, but this time my advisor wants me to do an internship as a cashier in COOP or Migros. I have a Master degree and do not want to do it. Can he penalize me for not accepting such an internship?

How have you not found the time to choose another career path and be re-skilled in all of that 10 years?

I know you will perceive a cashier job as demeaning given your education, but in the end you are a burden on the system who is claiming far more than he has put in so they will be desperate to keep you in paid work.

doropfiz 13.07.2019 22:20

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
Perhaps there are some ideas in this thread for you, OP, where there are suggestions on how to make a mental shift to turn the unemployment officer's suggestions around, so that they do work for you.
https://www.englishforum.ch/other-ge...e-chomage.html

omtatsat 14.07.2019 06:45

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
What is "chomage"?

Chuff 14.07.2019 06:47

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by omtatsat (Post 3082841)
What is "chomage"?

Work it out from the obvious context or simply do a Google, numbnuts.

omtatsat 14.07.2019 06:48

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 3082842)
Work it out from the obvious context or simply do a Google, numbnuts.

Hey AL leave off the insults or I will report you. In fact I have reported you.
And its an English forum not French!

BasP72 14.07.2019 07:22

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by omtatsat (Post 3082818)
I think they can force one. And there is a limited time one can stay on unemployment relief. After that they put you on social relief. That's the end of the line and you will be stigmatized by the Swiss if you find yourself getting social money.

In the FAQ of www.arbeit.swiss

Sie müssen grundsätzlich jede Arbeit unverzüglich annehmen. Unzumutbar und somit von der Annahmepflicht ausgenommen ist eine Arbeit, die ...

den üblichen Arbeitsbedingungen nicht entspricht;nicht angemessen auf Ihre Fähigkeiten oder auf Ihre bisherige Tätigkeit Rücksicht nimmt (gilt nicht für unter 30-Jährige);nicht Ihren persönlichen Verhältnissen entspricht (Alter, Gesundheit, Familie);einen Arbeitsweg von täglich mehr als 4 Stunden notwendig macht;den Wiedereinstieg in Ihren Beruf erschwert, falls darauf in absehbarer Zeit eine Aussicht besteht;Ihnen einen Lohn einbringt, der geringer ist als 70% des versicherten Verdienstes, es sei denn, Sie erhalten Kompensationszahlungen im Rahmen eines Zwischenverdienstes

Which translates to

You must always accept any work immediately. Unreasonable and therefore exempt from the acceptance obligation is a work that ... does not conform to the usual working conditions, does not adequately take into account your abilities or your previous job (does not apply to children under 30 years of age), does not match your personal circumstances (age, health, family), requires daily commute of more than 4 hours makes re-entry into your profession more difficult, if there is any prospect in the foreseeable future, and brings you a salary that is less than 70% of your insured earnings, unless you receive compensatory payments as part of an interim salary

Chuff 14.07.2019 07:50

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by omtatsat (Post 3082843)
Hey AL leave off the insults or I will report you. In fact I have reported you.
And its an English forum not French!

The point is that if you had an ounce of common sense or initiative you could quickly have answered the question yourself instead of subjecting us to more of your inane questions. From the context of the topic it is also completely obvious (well, to 99.9% of people I guess) what chomage means.

omtatsat 14.07.2019 07:54

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 3082851)
The point is that if you had an ounce of common sense or initiative you could quickly have answered the question yourself instead of subjecting us to more of your inane questions. From the context of the topic it is also completely obvious (well, to 99.9% of people I guess) what chomage means.

And the OP expects us to know what chomage is! He could have put in the translation if he wants to use French words.
And your blatant insult does not go excused

Chuff 14.07.2019 08:01

Re: Recurring unemployment
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by omtatsat (Post 3082854)
And the OP expects us to know what chomage is! He could have put in the translation if he wants to use French words.

You are literally the stupidest person on this forum. Seriously, I can't think of anyone else that beats you on this and I will happily accept a ban to tell you that.


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