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  #21  
Old 07.09.2019, 18:36
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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...the idea that education is mandatory for jobs that almost anyone can do just seems really foreign to me.
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Next time you catch yourself thinking about how mostly everything works like clockwork in Switzerland you can return to this thread and remind yourself why.
Yes! Anyone can learn to be a shop-assistant, on the job, right? But those who have completed an apprenticeship as a shop-assistant, know so much more than just how to ring up the sale on the cash-register and take the customer's money.

They have learnt how to operate and perhaps maintain a whole range of cash-registers, and something about things like these: stock control, conflict resolution, first-aid, marketing, book-keeping, health and safety regulations and inspections, buying, discounting, promotions of special offers, and how to explain the differences between similar products.

Some shop-assistants are unqualified, even in Switzerland. But those who have the apprenticeship can then build on that knowledge with experience and further courses, as they become promoted up the ranks to store manager, and so on.

That's applicable across many areas of work. That's why things simply work properly (by and large) in Switzerland.
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  #22  
Old 07.09.2019, 18:42
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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Rubbish.

Tom

exactly, you people on here know more about switzerland than i do, but living as a single person 10 minutes from the centre of st gallen in an apartment with 1 or 1.5 room(s), i doubt it would be hard to survive on 1700chf
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  #23  
Old 07.09.2019, 18:54
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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Are you talking Monthly or Analaly ?
Please keep your sexual kinks to yourself.
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Old 07.09.2019, 18:55
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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Yes! Anyone can learn to be a shop-assistant, on the job, right? But those who have completed an apprenticeship as a shop-assistant, know so much more than just how to ring up the sale on the cash-register and take the customer's money.

They have learnt how to operate and perhaps maintain a whole range of cash-registers, and something about things like these: stock control, conflict resolution, first-aid, marketing, book-keeping, health and safety regulations and inspections, buying, discounting, promotions of special offers, and how to explain the differences between similar products.

Some shop-assistants are unqualified, even in Switzerland. But those who have the apprenticeship can then build on that knowledge with experience and further courses, as they become promoted up the ranks to store manager, and so on.

That's applicable across many areas of work. That's why things simply work properly (by and large) in Switzerland.
Exactly. Let me add another thing:
A sense of professional pride and work ethics; especially for craftsmen.
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  #25  
Old 07.09.2019, 18:58
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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exactly, you people on here know more about switzerland than i do, but living as a single person 10 minutes from the centre of st gallen in an apartment with 1 or 1.5 room(s), i doubt it would be hard to survive on 1700chf
Some people can live extremely frugally. Saving money is possible by living in shared accommodation, by growing one's own vegetables (can be done in bottles and pots, even in one room), by always eating at home, by buying very little at all, and getting what one really does need from the Brockenhaus (second-hand shop), never going to the hairdresser or to the movies, etc.

Even so, many would consider Fr. 1700 a very tough way of living. I think it can be done for a while (for example to have time to study or time to do the planning for building up a business) but can probably be sustained long-term only if one is ideologically committed to frugality, or else if one is desperate and has no other options.

To give you an idea how the money would be distributed, here are some standardised budgets, made by Caritas, a well-respected non-profit organisation.
http://www.budgetberatung.ch/Budget-...nen.114.0.html
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Old 07.09.2019, 18:59
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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exactly, you people on here know more about switzerland than i do, but living as a single person 10 minutes from the centre of st gallen in an apartment with 1 or 1.5 room(s), i doubt it would be hard to survive on 1700chf
1700 chf after deductions? Taxes, healthcare, rent, commute to work?
Then ok, you will survive easily on 1700 for food, clothes and occasional drinks.

Otherwise forget it, Poverty line in switzerland is at CHF 2300.
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Old 07.09.2019, 19:04
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Some people can live extremely frugally. Saving money is possible by living in shared accommodation, by growing one's own vegetables (can be done in bottles and pots, even in one room), by always eating at home, by buying very little at all, and getting what one really does need from the Brockenhaus (second-hand shop), never going to the hairdresser or to the movies, etc.

Even so, many would consider Fr. 1700 a very tough way of living. I think it can be done for a while (for example to have time to study or time to do the planning for building up a business) but can probably be sustained long-term only if one is ideologically committed to frugality, or else if one is desperate and has no other options.

To give you an idea how the money would be distributed, here are some standardised budgets, made by Caritas, a well-respected non-profit organisation.
http://www.budgetberatung.ch/Budget-...nen.114.0.html
fair enough, but if you can get by with 1700-2500chf each month, then what is the problem with earning 66k annually like someone else pointed out?

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1700 chf after deductions? Taxes, healthcare, rent, commute to work?
Then ok, you will survive easily on 1700 for food, clothes and occasional drinks.

Otherwise forget it, Poverty line in switzerland is at CHF 2300.
is that really the poverty line for single persons?

Last edited by 3Wishes; 07.09.2019 at 19:50. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #28  
Old 07.09.2019, 19:08
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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Jobs that do not necessarily require specific training, such as household work, are typically better paid in Switzerland than elsewhere. The going rate is usually CHF 20-35 per hour, but could be up in CHF 50 per hour range. That gets you in the ballpark of the salary you mention.
This is true if the person could work full-time. However, people doing cleaning or gardening, or unqualified help in the home, typically work for a few hours at a time, and have lots of parallel jobs, and they have to reckon with the travelling-time between employers.

Only someone lucky enough to have found clients all very close to one another would be able to work for a full, say, 7 hours a day, and not lose too much time travelling.
Fr. 25 per hour x 7 hours a day x 22 days per month = Fr. 3'850

To earn around the Fr. 6'000 mark, one would have to be paid in the top range melloncollie suggests here, and also be blessed to have built up a portfolio of clients/employers who live very near one another.
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  #29  
Old 07.09.2019, 19:14
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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fair enough, but if you can get by with 1700-2500chf each month, then what is the problem with earning 66k annually like someone else pointed out?
The "problem" is that many people are simply not willing to put in the hard work it would take to live that frugally. Lots of people enjoy going out to a restaurant once in a while (rather than soaking beans and lentils overnight to cook at home) like to treat themselves to a good jacket of their choice in a shop selling new goods (rather than repairing the one they have, or buying a second-hand one), want to be able to buy themselves electronic goods and fast wifi (rather than going to a library or community centre to use those facilities) and to buy a car (rather than going everywhere on foot or on a cheap bicycle) and to save for a holiday (rather than going for a walk in their free-time).

Anyone who is willing to cut their "wants" out of the budget and restrict their expenditure to cover only their basic "needs", and who can eke out an existence on Fr. 2'000, while earning Fr. 5'000, will be able to save a lot each month.
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Old 07.09.2019, 19:14
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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is that really the poverty line for single persons?

CHF 2259 to be precise.
https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home...n/poverty.html
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Old 07.09.2019, 19:33
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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fair enough, but if you can get by with 1700-2500chf each month, then what is the problem with earning 66k annually like someone else pointed out?
I would say that living single with 66k annualy is perfectly fine as long as your not living in downtown zurich or geneva.
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  #32  
Old 07.09.2019, 19:47
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

Here's a website on which people publish their own salaries and the jobs they do.
https://zeigdeinenlohn.ch/
You can sort by employer, for example "Post AG", or by age or gender.
For a real comparison, though, one has to look at each profile individually, as some of those salaries are not for 100% full-time jobs.
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Old 07.09.2019, 20:02
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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i am pretty sure postal worker qualifies as unskilled
What makes you so sure...you are sure of that and sure of surviving in CH on quite a low income. It is worth not being so sure about things, when you are changing countries/cultures/systems.

I do like that confidence, sure. But I would advise against it.
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  #34  
Old 07.09.2019, 20:10
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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The "problem" is that many people are simply not willing to put in the hard work it would take to live that frugally.
Here's an interesting Swissinfo article where a reporter tried to live on the Swiss minimum subsistence level for one month - and gave up after two weeks. Tellingly the article is titled 'Experiencing The Stress Of Poverty In Switzerland'.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society...rland/45185298

Read the comments section as well.

Nivlem, as Doropfiz points out, it takes hard work to live at the minimum subsistence level in Switzerland.

Sadly, in Switzerland one person in twelve is now considered poor, so a lot of people are living under this stress every day.
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Old 07.09.2019, 20:19
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

With Chf 66k/annually, this is equivalent to Chf 5.5k/month.


You'll be absolutely fine with this salary, you'll soon learn to cut your coat according to you cloth


Sure, it you want a penthouse, lake view from all windows, a Ferrari in the garage and a couple of pieces of "arm candy" then Chf 66k/annually maybe just a stretch too far.... but in some suburb of Zurich, which can be equally, if not more amusing, you'll be fine.



You'll get drunk, you'll eat out, you'll do things, you'll get laid, what else you want ?
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Old 07.09.2019, 20:29
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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What makes you so sure...you are sure of that and sure of surviving in CH on quite a low income. It is worth not being so sure about things, when you are changing countries/cultures/systems.

I do like that confidence, sure. But I would advise against it.
1. i was asking if the salaries were really that high, if the poverty line is 2300 a month, im pretty sure you can live with 5500chf before anything, someone just said that was impossible.

2. Even in well off countries working as mailman requires no education other than the mandory 9-10 years of general education that most countries have.
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Old 07.09.2019, 20:33
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

Here's another breakdown of a monthly budget for you to compare, this one from the University of Zurich:
https://www.uzh.ch/en/studies/studentlife/finances.html
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Old 07.09.2019, 20:37
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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2. Even in well off countries working as mailman requires no education other than the mandory 9-10 years of general education that most countries have.
I don't know how it works in other well-off countries, sorry. Here's a website explaining the requirements and qualifications, in the Swiss Post Office.
https://www.berufsberatung.ch/dyn/show/1900?id=2678
and there, too, you can search for many other professions.
If you can't read German, French or Italian, then please try deepl or googletranslate.

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1. i was asking if the salaries were really that high, if the poverty line is 2300 a month, im pretty sure you can live with 5500chf before anything, someone just said that was impossible.
You do well to ask, since you are trying to understand how things work here.
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Old 07.09.2019, 20:53
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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1. i was asking if the salaries were really that high, if the poverty line is 2300 a month, im pretty sure you can live with 5500chf before anything, someone just said that was impossible.

2. Even in well off countries working as mailman requires no education other than the mandory 9-10 years of general education that most countries have.
I don't know how you come up with assertion, again so surely.

The reason you want to be here, somehow I feel, isn't because CH would be like "most countries". The sooner you accept the difference between CH and "most countries", the better for you.
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Old 07.09.2019, 21:04
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Re: Are salaries for untrained people really that high?

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Ok i know that switzerland has a high cost of living, but when i googled some salaries i found out that you make around 66.000chf a year which just seems absurdly high for an unskilled employee, are these salaries actually correct?

https://www.expatica.com/ch/employme...erland-995110/

https://www.jobs.ch/en/salary/?canton=CH&term=clerk
So you know that Switzerland is an expensive country.... how exactly would you expect these people to live????
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