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Old 18.11.2019, 21:42
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Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

Hi all

I've decided to start my own business and I'll be only employee as the owner. I'll still continue to work where I work now.. but this job will be my side job.

I would like to register my company in 1 month. Tomorrow I am going to join a short course regarding starting your own business.

Simply, I have some projects and I'll develop and sell it via internet. When everything is going good, then I'll reduce my workload (from my current work) as 80% and then 60% and then quit to job.

I am still searching and do not have so much knowledge about it. I have several question that I want to ask here and hope an experienced one could help me.

1- How long will it take to start a business? (I'll not rent a building, because I'll show my home address as the business address)
2- Do I need to open a business bank account even I have not sold anything yet? Can I do that later (when I start to sell)?
3- Do I really find an accountant for such a small business? can I do these things by myself? (I do not have so much idea about it but my wife will help me)
4- Do I have to prepare a business plan in all cases?
5- Generally, what should I consider? (need some advices)

I do not have anything to lose because I'll continue to work but I'll have my own company and will try to get a bit benefit of it.

The company will be based on software engineering and electronic device development.

Thank you
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Old 18.11.2019, 21:46
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

You need to check if your employment contract allows you to "compete" with your employer if you're proposing to be in the same business.

Also check with your landlord/agency if you rent that they're okay with you running a business from there.

https://www.ch.ch/en/self-employment/
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Old 18.11.2019, 21:57
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

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You need to check if your employment contract allows you to "compete" with your employer if you're proposing to be in the same business.

Also check with your landlord/agency if you rent that they're okay with you running a business from there.

https://www.ch.ch/en/self-employment/
Thank you for your reply. Actually I do not care what my employer tells.. I've already told that I am going to start my business and if they offer me a new contract, this condition has to be written there, if not then I'll just resign. And if I find a new job then I'll tell that I have a company so you should consider this situation..

I am not going to develop something in the same business.

For the flat agency, it is a good idea but I dont think that I'll accept any customer here because I'll work any way somewhere else and will not be at home during the working hours.. It represents only the bill address.

Thank you for the link, I am already searching more information
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Old 18.11.2019, 22:05
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

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Thank you for your reply. Actually I do not care what my employer tells.. I've already told that I am going to start my business and if they offer me a new contract, this condition has to be written there, if not then I'll just resign. And if I find a new job then I'll tell that I have a company so you should consider this situation..

I am not going to develop something in the same business.

For the flat agency, it is a good idea but I dont think that I'll accept any customer here because I'll work any way somewhere else and will not be at home during the working hours.. It represents only the bill address.

Thank you for the link, I am already searching more information

One way of going around it, but seems like you need an employer for a few more moths at least, so probably best to chill a bit with your employers, present or future.


Why would i want to employ you if i know you have your own company and intend to leave anyway, plus, will you be able to give 100% to me as your employer or will you be doing bits on the side for your own company during your paid time......
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Old 18.11.2019, 22:21
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

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One way of going around it, but seems like you need an employer for a few more moths at least, so probably best to chill a bit with your employers, present or future.


Why would i want to employ you if i know you have your own company and intend to leave anyway, plus, will you be able to give 100% to me as your employer or will you be doing bits on the side for your own company during your paid time......
I've told my chef and he passed it to the ceo and he told that he finds this idea fine..and he does not have problem with that beside if I do not develop something related my current work, or try to leave company.. Of course everyone will leave some day.. I just give myself like 1 year.. so if they do not accept my conditions, its not my problem.. I am willing to resign.. They have time until end of this month.. they will me whether offer a new contract or let me resign.. There is no another option and I was very clear on that. Because I cannot continue work in some circumstances.. And they find me right and they told me, they would do the same or more.. I do not have doubt
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Old 19.11.2019, 01:25
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

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One way of going around it, but seems like you need an employer for a few more moths at least, so probably best to chill a bit with your employers, present or future.
Yes, I agree.

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..... I am willing to resign.. They have time until end of this month.. they will me whether offer a new contract or let me resign.. There is no another option and I was very clear on that. Because I cannot continue work in some circumstances..
This sounds like several things are muddled. Or perhaps I've misunderstood.
  1. You are employed.
  2. You want to start a business.
  3. You have informed your empoyer and they say they have no problem with that.
  4. At this stage, you are in the early phase, and researching how to open and run a business.
Good.

Almost all businesses, when they're just starting out, don't generate much revenue at all, and it takes a while to build up clients and sales, slowly. Perhaps more slowly in Switzerland than elsewhere.

In all of the above, I don't see any need for you to resign.
  • Why, why, why would you put yourself in the position of having no income, when your business is not yet tried, tested and proven to make money?
  • Why would you jeopardise your claim on unemployment benefits, should you need them?
I get it that you're fed up with your job, but I still can't see how resigning would benefit you, or be wise. Especially since you've determined to research how to start a business properly (that's the right thing to do), can you not just trundle along in the job you have, doing what they require but perhaps with less emotional involvement, enjoying the financial security of a salary, and then leave them later, when your business is already profitable?

Anyway, whatever you decide, I wish you well as you learn all about starting and running a business, and I hope you have a good enough command of the local language, to face all the administration, regulations, insurance and tax, etc.
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Old 19.11.2019, 01:27
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

https://www.startups.ch/en/home

https://sigtax.com/en/how-setup-comp...land-foreigner

https://www.expatica.com/ch/employme...erland-101586/
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Old 19.11.2019, 02:37
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

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Yes, I agree.



This sounds like several things are muddled. Or perhaps I've misunderstood.
  1. You are employed.
  2. You want to start a business.
  3. You have informed your empoyer and they say they have no problem with that.
  4. At this stage, you are in the early phase, and researching how to open and run a business.
Good.

Almost all businesses, when they're just starting out, don't generate much revenue at all, and it takes a while to build up clients and sales, slowly. Perhaps more slowly in Switzerland than elsewhere.

In all of the above, I don't see any need for you to resign.
  • Why, why, why would you put yourself in the position of having no income, when your business is not yet tried, tested and proven to make money?
  • Why would you jeopardise your claim on unemployment benefits, should you need them?
I get it that you're fed up with your job, but I still can't see how resigning would benefit you, or be wise. Especially since you've determined to research how to start a business properly (that's the right thing to do), can you not just trundle along in the job you have, doing what they require but perhaps with less emotional involvement, enjoying the financial security of a salary, and then leave them later, when your business is already profitable?

Anyway, whatever you decide, I wish you well as you learn all about starting and running a business, and I hope you have a good enough command of the local language, to face all the administration, regulations, insurance and tax, etc.
Thank you so much for your detailed reply. I find it very useful and thank you for links too.

Well, I've already opened a thread regarding my problems at work. So it is not related with my private business. I'll anyway leave this company (if they do not offer something better) and will find another job because I am looking for a new job and having some interviews (as a guarantee).

This job damages me for now.. Psychologically it effects me a lot and cannot handle anymore.. End of the day, I will be really an insane person. It is better to leave.. I am going to holiday soon and it will help me but they have time until end of this month and I'll see what will happen.

If they do not offer me what I want, then I'll resign and will work at another place.I can find a job easily because I trust my skills.. I speak also German around C1 level and my wife is Swiss, she'll help me.. No one will not be able to discourage me from starting my own business This is what I really want and I focus/search/work on that..

I just try to learn more information from here, need advices from experts Thank you again

edit: tomorrow there is a free course that is organised by startup.ch.. I'll also attend..
Probably I'll get their help as a professional service.. I'll see.
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Old 19.11.2019, 11:43
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

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edit: tomorrow there is a free course that is organised by startup.ch.. I'll also attend..
Probably I'll get their help as a professional service.. I'll see.
You mean there is a sales pitch that you are attending tomorrow. Startup.ch is not a benevolent society.
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Old 19.11.2019, 12:22
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

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1- How long will it take to start a business? (I'll not rent a building, because I'll show my home address as the business address)
2- Do I need to open a business bank account even I have not sold anything yet? Can I do that later (when I start to sell)?
3- Do I really find an accountant for such a small business? can I do these things by myself? (I do not have so much idea about it but my wife will help me)
4- Do I have to prepare a business plan in all cases?
5- Generally, what should I consider? (need some advices)
1. You could start it today. You don't ned to form a GmbH, an Einzelfirma (ie self employed) will be fine for the first year or so.
2. As self employed no, for small businesses just keep a spreadsheet for all business transactions. I always suggest for self employed people to have a separate credit card for business, keeps admin cleaner.
3. As long as you keep a record of all business transactions, a 2 page spreadsheet will be fine, you won't need an accountant till the year end. But i suggest going to see one as they will advise what records to keep etc. Bear in mind you'll be allowed to claim some home expenses - internet connection, mobile phone, use of home as an office, some travelk expenses, against your final tax bill.
4. You don't have to unless you're intending to borrow. But for yourself, it does help to make things clear in your head about what you want to achieve and how.
5. Without knowing you or the business, difficult to say. Just work hard and good luck!

And re startups.ch. I used them to form a Gmbh 3 years ago and they're great. At the workshop they will give you advice also on being just self employed for the first year or 3. Unless you will running a risky business with big debts, just don't let them try to persuade you to form a GmbH right away.
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Old 20.11.2019, 01:15
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

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You mean there is a sales pitch that you are attending tomorrow. Startup.ch is not a benevolent society.
you can say that
and here is the presentation, maybe somebody is interested in it

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0e8wex3aol...rsdownload.pdf
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Old 20.11.2019, 01:28
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

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1. You could start it today. You don't ned to form a GmbH, an Einzelfirma (ie self employed) will be fine for the first year or so.
2. As self employed no, for small businesses just keep a spreadsheet for all business transactions. I always suggest for self employed people to have a separate credit card for business, keeps admin cleaner.
3. As long as you keep a record of all business transactions, a 2 page spreadsheet will be fine, you won't need an accountant till the year end. But i suggest going to see one as they will advise what records to keep etc. Bear in mind you'll be allowed to claim some home expenses - internet connection, mobile phone, use of home as an office, some travelk expenses, against your final tax bill.
4. You don't have to unless you're intending to borrow. But for yourself, it does help to make things clear in your head about what you want to achieve and how.
5. Without knowing you or the business, difficult to say. Just work hard and good luck!

And re startups.ch. I used them to form a Gmbh 3 years ago and they're great. At the workshop they will give you advice also on being just self employed for the first year or 3. Unless you will running a risky business with big debts, just don't let them try to persuade you to form a GmbH right away.
Thank you for your all answers. It really helped me and my mind is clearer now..
A friend advice me to start a gmbh instead of self employed. Of course there are advantages but even my product(s) are not ready and I would like to found a self employed company.

Your advices are really useful. Short but so helpful. Really thank you.

For startups.ch, I think I am going to start the einzelfirma by myself without their help but after a while, I'll move to gmbh then I'll need their help and a real accountant.

I am going to open a bank account in cler bank after I found the self employed company. Normally I am using postfinance but as you advice, I'll have a separate bank account for the business.

Several questions if you can answer;

1- is it difficult to convert an einzelfirma to a gmbh? (let say, after 6 months if I want to convert my business as gmbh)
2- you said that I can show some expenses for reducing tax such as internet, rent etc.. Do I have to pay them with my business account or can I still pay with my private account (also my salary account) and show the bills?
3- as I understand, the self employed companies have to have with your family name but gmbh not.. and if it is a self employed company then you pay tax more.. But let say, my product will be ready 3-5 months later, can I found an einzelfirma and before I start to sell my product or after 1 year later, I will convert my self employed company to a gmbh. Does that way look fine? I am still trying to understand advantages and disadv. between einzelfirma and gmbh and their relations..

thank you
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Old 20.11.2019, 08:42
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

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Hi all

I've decided to start my own business and I'll be only employee as the owner. I'll still continue to work where I work now.. but this job will be my side job.

I would like to register my company in 1 month. Tomorrow I am going to join a short course regarding starting your own business.

Simply, I have some projects and I'll develop and sell it via internet. When everything is going good, then I'll reduce my workload (from my current work) as 80% and then 60% and then quit to job.

I am still searching and do not have so much knowledge about it. I have several question that I want to ask here and hope an experienced one could help me.

1- How long will it take to start a business? (I'll not rent a building, because I'll show my home address as the business address)
2- Do I need to open a business bank account even I have not sold anything yet? Can I do that later (when I start to sell)?
3- Do I really find an accountant for such a small business? can I do these things by myself? (I do not have so much idea about it but my wife will help me)
4- Do I have to prepare a business plan in all cases?
5- Generally, what should I consider? (need some advices)

I do not have anything to lose because I'll continue to work but I'll have my own company and will try to get a bit benefit of it.

The company will be based on software engineering and electronic device development.

Thank you
Simply dont go " cold Turkey " . 50 % of startups fail on the first year. "
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Old 20.11.2019, 09:19
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

The RAV Special Office for Self-Employment (Fachstelle Selbständigkeit) offers an information session most Friday mornings from 9:15 to 10:45 at Lagerstrasse 107, Zurich (near the Zurich HB). Although it would be directed primarily at RAV registered job-seekers, this could be a non-commercial source of information on self-employment. It is held in German:


https://awa.zh.ch/internet/volkswirt...nfodaten11.pdf
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Old 20.11.2019, 10:45
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

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I am going to open a bank account in cler bank after I found the self employed company. Normally I am using postfinance but as you advice, I'll have a separate bank account for the business.

Several questions if you can answer;

1- is it difficult to convert an einzelfirma to a gmbh? (let say, after 6 months if I want to convert my business as gmbh)
2- you said that I can show some expenses for reducing tax such as internet, rent etc.. Do I have to pay them with my business account or can I still pay with my private account (also my salary account) and show the bills?
3- as I understand, the self employed companies have to have with your family name but gmbh not.. and if it is a self employed company then you pay tax more.. But let say, my product will be ready 3-5 months later, can I found an einzelfirma and before I start to sell my product or after 1 year later, I will convert my self employed company to a gmbh. Does that way look fine? I am still trying to understand advantages and disadv. between einzelfirma and gmbh and their relations..

thank you
Re bank account, if you do start self employed (and I would say you should) you don't need a business bank account. Just open a personal one, if you tell the bank it's for business they will insist you have a business account, and they cost more. But really, if you're not selling much in the first 6 months you don't need a separate account.

1. You could just stop being self employed and start the Gmbh. But I did read there are some regulations to follow, or there may be tax advantages to doing it a certain way. startups or your accountant will advise.

2. Home expenses, just pay them normally and when your accountant does your year end tax return he will decide how much of your rent, car, telephone etc can be claimed for. No money needs to change hands if you're self employed.

3. For small sales in the first year you probably won't show a profit anyway so tax differences won't really come into it. Yes, for Einzelfirma the company name on your invoices and letters needs to have your name, ie "John Smith Widgets" but your logo could have the wording "Best Widgets" on it. Later on you could form your company, it could have any name like "John Smith Trading GmbH" and then Trading as Best Widgets". I know some people who have done that so that then the GmbH could be used to trade as other business names. Just gives some flexibility in the future.
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Old 21.11.2019, 09:51
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

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Re bank account, if you do start self employed (and I would say you should) you don't need a business bank account. Just open a personal one, if you tell the bank it's for business they will insist you have a business account, and they cost more. But really, if you're not selling much in the first 6 months you don't need a separate account.

1. You could just stop being self employed and start the Gmbh. But I did read there are some regulations to follow, or there may be tax advantages to doing it a certain way. startups or your accountant will advise.

2. Home expenses, just pay them normally and when your accountant does your year end tax return he will decide how much of your rent, car, telephone etc can be claimed for. No money needs to change hands if you're self employed.

3. For small sales in the first year you probably won't show a profit anyway so tax differences won't really come into it. Yes, for Einzelfirma the company name on your invoices and letters needs to have your name, ie "John Smith Widgets" but your logo could have the wording "Best Widgets" on it. Later on you could form your company, it could have any name like "John Smith Trading GmbH" and then Trading as Best Widgets". I know some people who have done that so that then the GmbH could be used to trade as other business names. Just gives some flexibility in the future.

Thank you for yoru replies again! They are so helpful. I am thinking to start a self employed company and after a while, I will move it as gmbh. I also learn that there are some tax advantages. But self employed company does not offer any tax advange, but a gmbh offers 13% tax in basel and also some reducement but I do not know it. When I hire an accountant, I will ask him but I'll do that when I have a gmbh.



For now, I've decided to continue with a self employment company. Thank you a lot again
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Old 21.11.2019, 09:54
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

@Mullhollander, Thank you for the link. Unfortunately, I'll not be in Switzerland on Dec 27th and the another one is on April 19th which is late for me
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Old 21.11.2019, 10:22
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Re: Starting a Start-Up Company while Working

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@Mullhollander, Thank you for the link. Unfortunately, I'll not be in Switzerland on Dec 27th and the another one is on April 19th which is late for me

For the remainder of 2019, it's every Friday except 27 December.
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Old 21.11.2019, 11:10
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For the remainder of 2019, it's every Friday except 27 December.

oh I did not read carefully thank you then. I'll try to arrange my time. Thank you so much
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Old 21.11.2019, 11:29
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Thank you for yoru replies again! They are so helpful. I am thinking to start a self employed company and after a while, I will move it as gmbh. I also learn that there are some tax advantages. But self employed company does not offer any tax advange, but a gmbh offers 13% tax in basel and also some reducement but I do not know it. When I hire an accountant, I will ask him but I'll do that when I have a gmbh.



For now, I've decided to continue with a self employment company. Thank you a lot again



Hire an accountant BEFORE setting up your GmbH so you do itg properly


It is money very well spent
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