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-   -   Advice Cont vs Perm (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/296439-advice-cont-vs-perm.html)

flavios 29.01.2020 13:27

Advice Cont vs Perm
 
160K perm with different benefits against a daily of 1200 (all-inclusive) for a year.

What would be your advice on that?

Guest 29.01.2020 13:42

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
That is like 283K a year (taking 25 days of for holiday, illness etc)

I'd say we can't answer without having a better clue of your benefits.

Ace1 29.01.2020 13:46

1. Count your blessings
2. Take the daily rate.
3. Make sure you post here to show everyone how wealthy you are.

But it really depends on how employable you feel you'll be in a year. I shifted from contract to permie 15+ years ago, from a lower (~75% of what you quote) daily rate to a slightly lower annual salary, but my reasons were based around wanting to feel permanent and stable in both professional and personal life, not purely financial.

Similarly, my wife, who had been permy for some years, then was let go before going back as a contractor, took a permie role on a slightly different equation to yours.

In both cases, a significant part of it was also based on the role itself, and how much one would be able to influence things in the longer term, so again, it's not just about the money.

Quote:

That is like 283K a year (taking 25 days of for holiday, illness etc)
I used to work on a max 2000hr/year basis, which would make it 300k. Yes, of course illness would eat into that, but even taking decent amounts of hols it was easy to achieve the maximum hours over the course of a year.

Chemmie 29.01.2020 13:49

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
ummm--1200 daily obviously.

(I assume simple maths isn't part of the job description :D )

Ace1 29.01.2020 13:52

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chemmie (Post 3142180)
ummm--1200 daily obviously.

(I assume simple maths isn't part of the job description :D )

It's really not that simple. A whole raft of other factors need to be taken into consideration, not just the total annual earnings.

flavios 29.01.2020 14:01

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
Thanks guys for all the feedbacks; well the perm itself comes with all the classic benefits like 27 a. leave, bonus one or two months, and some other benefits which can be quantified as much as a couple of 10K per year.

Just financially speaking, I don't want to get impacted way too much considering my last daily rate was exactly around 1200 daily.

Wondering what percentage less I might consider reasonable giving the annual salary which can come up from 1.2k daily (283k roughly as already mentioned)

Stepping into perm is fine for me, but I do not want to lose way too much on the way just for the "sake" of being perm (with 3 months notice btw)

Chemmie 29.01.2020 14:02

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace1 (Post 3142182)
It's really not that simple. A whole raft of other factors need to be taken into consideration, not just the total annual earnings.

According to the information given, there is little to consider.

The OP gave us two numbers and relative periods, and an ambiguous phrase "different benefits". More of a light trolling post.


What prize do you take? 100K CHF or 'what's in the mystery box!' ?


edit: OP added some further info.

flavios 29.01.2020 14:03

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chemmie (Post 3142189)
According to the information given, there is little to consider.

The OP gave us two numbers and relative periods, and an ambiguous phrase "different benefits". More of a light trolling post.


What prize do you take? 100K CHF or 'what's in the mystery box!' ?


edit: OP added some further info.

Not a troll promise :) ...just specify all the details in the reply above yours :msnblush:

Chemmie 29.01.2020 14:16

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flavios (Post 3142190)
Not a troll promise :) ...just specify all the details in the reply above yours :msnblush:

(added an edit after my post went up :P)

Now I'm not too familiar with Cont. contracts (redundant ? :P )

but if it were me, I would factor in:

Tax implications
Pension implications
Accident Insurance
Work load -w.r.t. paid vacation, free time after work etc.

Jim2007 29.01.2020 17:14

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chemmie (Post 3142180)
ummm--1200 daily obviously.

(I assume simple maths isn't part of the job description :D )

Simple math would let you down... the contact rate is marginally better but not by a lot.

Guest 29.01.2020 18:12

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flavios (Post 3142186)
bonus one or two months, and some other benefits which can be quantified as much as a couple of 10K per year.

A couple of 10K's or A couple up to 10K per year?

Also the bonus is like 13 to 26K a year already

You have to do proper math, might be that just taking the steady job would be in your favour.

doropfiz 29.01.2020 20:08

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chemmie (Post 3142196)
but if it were me, I would factor in:

Tax implications
Pension implications
Accident Insurance
Work load -w.r.t. paid vacation, free time after work etc.

Yes. And insurance against loss of income due to illness (short- or medium term) or disability.

And benefits for a spouse or especially for children, if any, should you become unable, through accident or illness, to work.

Jim2007 29.01.2020 20:40

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3142355)
Yes. And insurance against loss of income due to illness (short- or medium term) or disability.

And benefits for a spouse or especially for children, if any, should you become unable, through accident or illness, to work.

Generally speaking the pension funds used by the agents are designed to meet the minimum legal requirements and put as much cash in the contractors pocket as possible, which is fine if nothing goes wrong. Which is fine if nothing goes wrong. But if it does, trying to survive on a small pension for 40+ years is not much fun.

I know, everyone thinks it will not happen to them, but statistically it will certainly happen to someone. I have a neighbor down the street here who had an accident at work and has not been able to work for over 30+ years and a guy in Ireland that has not worked since he was 24. He was young and foolish - he was a painter, working black, so he is on minimum social welfare and depending of the charity of his sister and her husband letting him live in their garage.

leonie 29.01.2020 22:12

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
In the last 3 years I started contracting after a long permanent employment, and cannot be happier. The pay is much much better, but the most enjoyable is not to be a part of the “permanent” setup. You can move across different companies to different projects, change teams and hiring managers, having a very short notice period. No yearly evaluations or those yearly feedbacks. I really enjoy the freedom that contracting brings. I guess in a few years when I am old I will try to take permanent again, but for now I regret only that I didn’t start contracting earlier.

nickatbasel 30.01.2020 08:07

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
It‘s a decent rate, and perm is is only as secure as the three months notice period. With that rate you can build a decent bank balance in case the market is poor after the 12 months is up.

If you can, it is worth handling your affairs via an own GmbH - however many clients insist you go via an approved agency.

For me the best part about being a contractor was just being there to do a job, and not getting involved with the more Dilberty aspects of being a perm e.g. performance reviews, office politics. Also not being tied to a place beyond the end of the contract if the environment was not the best.

Cheers.
Nick

flavios 31.01.2020 10:14

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
thanks for all your feedback! well, giving the same kind of benefits for a perm contract, what would be your opinion regarding an average relation between an annuity as perm in comparison with a daily rate?

Something like that might make sense? :

106.67K 800
120.00K 900
133.33K 1000
146.67K 1100
160.00K 1200
173.33K 1300
186.67K 1400

k_and_e 31.01.2020 10:19

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flavios (Post 3142997)
thanks for all your feedback! well, giving the same kind of benefits for a perm contract, what would be your opinion regarding an average relation between an annuity as perm in comparison with a daily rate?

Something like that might make sense? :

106.67K 800
120.00K 900
133.33K 1000
146.67K 1100
160.00K 1200
173.33K 1300
186.67K 1400

I would first make a calculation of my salary, bonus, employer contributions (especially pension) and calculate the employer cost per year.

Then make a realistic gross to net calculation for your day rate, taking the same elements into consideration, and the chargeable number of days.

Make a list of all non-monetary benefits.

And decide.

flavios 31.01.2020 10:26

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by k_and_e (Post 3143004)
I would first make a calculation of my salary, bonus, employer contributions (especially pension) and calculate the employer cost per year.

Then make a realistic gross to net calculation for your day rate, taking the same elements into consideration, and the chargeable number of days.

Make a list of all non-monetary benefits.

And decide.

I was trying instead to make a sort of general guideline for compare perm/dailies as, after having received few perm offers, I can notice the overall packages as you mentioned (pension, bonus, etc..) are more or less at the same level (bonus always around 15-20% per year, pension rate around the same, etc...) in comparison with the offered annuality.

eyebeebe 31.01.2020 12:38

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
At 160k with a private bank are you not being recruited at a level where there is a tax free T&E allowance in addition to salary and bonus. For example I receive CHF 14,400 pa for this.

Also worth looking at some of the fringe benefits from being perm as well. At a bank it could be cheaper mortgages, bank accounts, mobile phone subscriptions, gym memberships.

Is the 1200 in your hand after the agency has taken their cut? What about the employers’ AHV that you will have to pay as well as the employee. In total that’s 11% or so. Have you considered the disability and death risk premium that a perm position will cover? What about sick leave policy.

Despite what people say about being able to be fired at will, in the big banks at least, that’s not what they do.

AbFab 31.01.2020 13:57

Re: Advice Cont vs Perm
 
I was thinking that with Zurich hairdressers‘ prices CHF160 for a perm wasn‘t too bad...


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