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  #61  
Old 12.02.2020, 14:11
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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Thats a red herring as there is no requirement to pay pension contributions on the full salary & salary can be reduced to compensate.
No, what you are saying is the red herring! Companies are not in a position to discriminate against employees based on age. It's not possible for one employee to have say 19% employers contribution, another on say 8% and so on, as well as some being allowed to retire early with a supplementary pension to cover them until the AHV kicks in, another not and so on. It just is not going to happen,
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  #62  
Old 12.02.2020, 14:28
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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Thats really interesting. what do you count as then in those circumstances ? Do you just disappear from the records or are you marked as some other category ?

many people not entitled to RAV are entitled to some type of minumum welfare but this depends on what assets you may have. I am not sure if there are any statistics for people who are looking for work but are not entitled to unemployment payments.


The SVP unsuccessfully tried to change this:


https://www.parlament.ch/de/ratsbetr...airId=20154104




To give an example, a Swiss friend of mine is 51 years old. She has worked for years as a secretary but has been unable to find such work for over 2 years now. As she owns the apartment where she lives, she is entitled to no social payment whatsoever even though she is no longer entitled to RAV and is a single mother. She has now taken a job as a cleaner, has moved her son into her bedroom and rented out his bedroom. She is offically no longer unemployed but will have to wait to be 64 (or older) for a low pension and will certainly not find it easy to work as a cleaner at this age. Life is not so rosy for everyone in Switzerland.

Last edited by Dack Rambo; 12.02.2020 at 14:38.
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  #63  
Old 12.02.2020, 14:30
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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No, what you are saying is the red herring! Companies are not in a position to discriminate against employees based on age. It's not possible for one employee to have say 19% employers contribution, another on say 8% and so on, as well as some being allowed to retire early with a supplementary pension to cover them until the AHV kicks in, another not and so on. It just is not going to happen,
It will not happen. Because they will just not hire the one who costs more. This is how employability works - just as for example minimal wage often means people got fired, family/friends help out. Nobody likes this.
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  #64  
Old 12.02.2020, 14:54
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

The International Labor Organization used international standards to calculate the unemployment rate in Switzerland at 5% in Q1 2018. Their methodology includes all job-seekers in Switzerland, and not just those registered with RAV. Partial translation of an ETH Economic Research Center report:

"Unemployment rate according to ILO corrected too rosy picture of the (Swiss) labor market

Without the changes in unemployment insurance and the technical changes in the measurement of unemployment, reported unemployment would be higher today. According to our (ETH) rough calculations, the seasonally adjusted unemployment rate would be between 3.0 and 3.2% - about half a percentage point higher than it is today. The fact that despite a good start to the new year, there are still many people looking for work on the labour market is also shown by the unemployment figures according to the statistics of the International Labor Organization (ILO), which is known in Switzerland for its unemployment statistics. In contrast to SECO's statistics on registered unemployed persons, these statistics also include unemployed persons who are not registered with an employment office. In the first quarter of 2018, this remained at a seasonally adjusted level of almost 5% and has hardly decreased at all in recent quarters. An unemployment rate of this magnitude is quite high for Switzerland by historical standards. However, the strong increase in employment in the first quarter of 2018 gives reason to hope that unemployment will actually fall in the coming months."

https://kof.ethz.ch/news-und-veranst...och-nicht.html
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  #65  
Old 12.02.2020, 14:58
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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Companies are not in a position to discriminate against employees based on age. It's not possible for one employee to have say 19% employers contribution, another on say 8% and so on, as well as some being allowed to retire early with a supplementary pension to cover them until the AHV kicks in, another not and so on. It just is not going to happen,
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It will not happen. Because they will just not hire the one who costs more.

Isn´t that exactly what Jim2007 said? As the contribution is linked to age brackets, for the older person more contribution will have to be paid = more expensive = less chance of getting hired?
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  #66  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:06
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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No, what you are saying is the red herring! Companies are not in a position to discriminate against employees based on age. It's not possible for one employee to have say 19% employers contribution, another on say 8% and so on, as well as some being allowed to retire early with a supplementary pension to cover them until the AHV kicks in, another not and so on. It just is not going to happen,
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Isn´t that exactly what Jim2007 said? As the contribution is linked to age brackets, for the older person more contribution will have to be paid = more expensive = less chance of getting hired?
On low paying jobs you are correct, however once you pass 86K there is no requirement to pay pension contributions & no reason why the older person is not on a lower salary to compensate. It's exactly how it worked when I did daily contracts as an employee, the fee includes everything so as I got older the salary dropped.
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  #67  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:08
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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No, what you are saying is the red herring! Companies are not in a position to discriminate against employees based on age. It's not possible for one employee to have say 19% employers contribution, another on say 8% and so on, as well as some being allowed to retire early with a supplementary pension to cover them until the AHV kicks in, another not and so on. It just is not going to happen,

Sorry you are wrong.

The law for LPP says the employer must pay the following percentages of the salary based upon employees age:

25 -34 7%
35 - 44 10%
45 - 54 12%
55 - 64/65 18%

The contribution is normally made up of 50% by the employer and 50% by the employee but depending on the generosity of the employer it could be 40% employee 60% employer.

So you can see why people over 50 might find it difficult to find a high paying job!
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  #68  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:13
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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Sorry you are wrong.


The law for LPP says the company must pay the following percentages of the salary based upon employees age:



25 -34 7%
35 - 44 10%
45 - 54 12%
55 - 64/65 18%


The contribution is normally paid 50% by the employer and 50% by the employee.


So you can see why people over 50 might have trouble finding a high paying job!
Not quite, pension payments only need to be paid on the Mandatory insured salary of 59’925 CHF, the additional 3% (1798) is hardly a deal breaker as salary can be dropped by 150 a month to compensate.
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  #69  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:21
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

Actually it is higher now but many employers (mine for example) also contribute to the non-mandatory portion
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  #70  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:28
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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Actually it is higher now but many employers (mine for example) also contribute to the non-mandatory portion
OK it's now on 63,990 of pay, no requirement to pay on full salary so if your employer pays on full salary up to 55 then they could pay the same amount each month on a lower pensionable salary. As I said it's a red herring.
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  #71  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:36
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

I now understand what you are saying FMF.



Issue will be that people on a (much) higher salary would want to keep paying in into Pillar 2 with similar amounts and not with much reduced amounts.


But then sometimes it can be a choice between lower payment into Pillar 2 or being unemployed and not easily finding a job?
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  #72  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:39
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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I now understand what you are saying FMF.



Issue will be that people on a (much) higher salary would want to keep paying in into Pillar 2 with similar amounts and not with much reduced amounts.


But then sometimes it can be a choice between lower payment into Pillar 2 or being unemployed and not easily finding a job?
There is no logical reason to expect your cost of employment should be higher due to age (55+), when in reality you are probably less efficient & productive than someone of 40
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  #73  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:45
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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There is no logical reason to expect your cost of employment should be higher due to age (55+), when in reality you are probably less efficient & productive than someone of 40

That all depends on the person. I can see some highly ineffective young consultants here on a daily basis


Not every older person is less efficient or productive, not every younger person is more efficient or productive.
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  #74  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:54
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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That all depends on the person. I can see some highly ineffective young consultants here on a daily basis


Not every older person is less efficient or productive, not every younger person is more efficient or productive.
Historically pilots have retired early, however The International Civil Aviation Authority (ICAO) sets the maximum retirement age at 65 for a very good reason.
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  #75  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:54
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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That all depends on the person. I can see some highly ineffective young consultants here on a daily basis


Not every older person is less efficient or productive, not every younger person is more efficient or productive.
That's true. Some seem to think that showing up is 80% of the grade. I mean salary.
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  #76  
Old 12.02.2020, 15:58
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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Historically pilots have retired early, however The International Civil Aviation Authority (ICAO) sets the maximum retirement age at 65 for a very good reason.
The problem is with companies being bought by other companies and not all pilots making the cut. Especially captains, they cost. Swiss only hires 1st pilots. Or no pilots and puts them through school.
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  #77  
Old 12.02.2020, 16:15
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

So with salaries going down, costs of living going up -- what strategies do you see to cope with this during the next 10 years or so?
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Old 12.02.2020, 16:17
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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So with salaries going down, costs of living going up -- what strategies do you see to cope with this during the next 10 years or so?
Living like locals. Not beyond our means.
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Old 12.02.2020, 16:19
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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Living like locals. Not beyond our means.
Saving for a rainy day has been out of fashion for a very long time.
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Old 12.02.2020, 16:25
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Re: Trend of unemployment?

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Saving for a rainy day has been out of fashion for a very long time.
In the era of instant gratification and where people prefer high salaries to meaningful employment...

On the other hand, I just heard "I don't want to be the richest guy in the cemetery" and there is something about it, too.

It is an art to master the combination of generosity and frugality.

You don't know anyone who sees a shrink to justify why they aren't taking care of their family?
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