English Forum Switzerland

English Forum Switzerland (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php)
-   Employment (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/)
-   -   dilemma job in zurich vs moscow (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/296750-dilemma-job-zurich-vs-moscow.html)

leonie 15.02.2020 14:50

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Franzbrotchen (Post 3148426)
_ If i take the job in zurich, i will get a very good situation. But opportunities will be quite standard/limited. I will have nothing "special", I will be a french, with a good level in german, you might as well hire a Swiss citizen who's bilingual.

_ If i take the job in Moscow, i expect to not have the same saving or purchasing power at the beginning. But, after there is room to get more responsabilities (in my case, it implies a more interesting job, and higher salary), since they are less highly skilled foreigners in comparaison with Switzerland. Also, i value culturally and financially a lot the knowledge of Russian (know languages can be a differentiating point in my job function).

Seems like you hope to get better career opportunities in Russia because of being french. I think this is a mistake. I would rather try to move ahead in the “standard” environment of Zurich, it will be more competitive but the result will have more value.

curley 15.02.2020 15:24

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 3148482)
...... lots of second hand information ....

LOL. If Franzbrötchen plans to be politically active while working in Russia, she should inform herself. Apart from that, after gathering her own experiences in a completly different enviroment, she can get out any time whe want.
I personally would bet she returns with a lot of pleasant memories and stories to tell and a - self encountered - impression of daily life there.

Sure, start planning your career early - best at the age of about 4 years - and don't bother living. Hope for reincarnation being a fact in that case. :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, Chuff, I respect if you say you would never. I only criticize you selling it obviously without having any personal experience with Russia as is your belief is the absolute truth.

OP: How come you already speak some Russian? You must have some kind of contact or at least an open minded attitude.

rainer_d 15.02.2020 15:59

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Speaking Russian and German will be a big plus if you apply for jobs here.

I've never been to Russia but in the past I've heard that the pollution in Moscow is rather bad. And it's a big city with lots of people.

I don't think I'd concern myself with the political situation too much. It's always a concern, yes, but if you can keep a low profile (politically) for the time you're there, that should do it.

Treverus 15.02.2020 16:31

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by olygirl (Post 3148450)
Go to Moscow and then back to Zürich.

I would expect a bias in opinions when asking a Swiss expat forum, but this thread is surely one of the worst of its kind:
1. it sounds like the OP has an opportunity in Moscow secured and it comes with a lot more than an average Russian income. That’s an opportunity that not every fresh graduate will get.
2. finding a job in CH around the 100k mark for an educated and motivated EU citizen isn’t that unusual.

I’d totally go to Russia, make the experience and come back in two or three years. In all honesty: you have in this stage of your career a flexibility that won’t come back once you are in a relationship or have a family... use that while it lasts.

Treverus 15.02.2020 16:36

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 3148482)
Russia is an openly (and I mean in your face, not behind your back) racist and prejudiced, sexist, corrupt and decadent hellhole run by a dictator (in all but name). I don't even want to go there on a short holiday

My Asian wife an I have never experienced less racism than in Moscow. I know it’s an unpopular opinion but it’s based on real life experience.

And if I judge nations solely by their political leaders would I need to avoid a whole lot of countries starting with the US (and not stopping at the UK).

omtatsat 15.02.2020 17:01

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3148392)
Could be a career move for OP, what do we know. Dictatorial might not even reach him if he/she is under a protection of an international ubercompany.

Nobody and certainly no company is safe in that country

slammer 15.02.2020 18:19

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Oh heck! For a 24 year old with that choice... It’s a no brainer, Moskau. Don’t get me wrong CH is great but soo very dull compared to The Russian capital. OP when you are getting over 40 try CH again, or maybe go for some R&R Now and then. At your age money isn’t everything, adventure is and there is no better place for that than Moskau.

omtatsat 15.02.2020 21:02

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Moscow is the most polluted city in the country with the highest concentration of nitrogen dioxide (NO2), a toxic particle released from diesel fumes.18.07.2019

So if you go there to work it will be highly unlikely you will even make it back to CH

Sultan of Swing 16.02.2020 12:03

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by omtatsat (Post 3148600)
Moscow is the most polluted city in the country with the highest concentration of nitrogen dioxide (NO2), a toxic particle released from diesel fumes.18.07.2019

So if you go there to work it will be highly unlikely you will even make it back to CH


you might notify those shown here about the dangers https://www.srf.ch/play/tv/sendung/d...7-895f5ebcf05b



as well as inform yourself that Swiss are actually being killed in Chile, not Moscow.

Axa 17.02.2020 10:26

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Franzbrotchen (Post 3148426)
If i take the job in zurich, i will get a very good situation. But opportunities will be quite standard/limited. I will have nothing "special", I will be a french, with a good level in german, you might as well hire a Swiss citizen who's bilingual.

Well.....the reason I got hired is because I can speak and write in French for a company in Baden. French is my 3rd language, meaning I'm truly bad at it and not improving :). Yes, there are Swiss bilinguals in DE and FR, but very few of them want to live on the other region. The exception are Italian speaking ones, they're quite flexible.

I totally understand the feeling of going into hard competition (Zürich) while having an alternative option that looks less grinding. Try Russia, you can always quit if it doesn't work.

greenmount 17.02.2020 11:17

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Franzbrotchen (Post 3148371)
Hello all,


To present myself quickly, I am a 24 years old french, currently working in Germany since 6 months for my first job. I enjoy my current situation, but i don t seem me staying long term in my current job.


In the near futur (second part of 2020), i will have the opportunity to relocate to Russia within my company. At the same time, i plan to apply for jobs in Switzerland.


I know pretty well the employement conditions i will receveid in both cases, since i am new graduate/junior, but i struggle to compare them, since it's countries and cities i know little about.




Here the employement condtions within my company in Moscow:


_ 3200-3300€ net salary per month (directly on my bank account)
_ 6 week paid leaves per year
_ good health insurance included
_ average retirement plan (upgrade with time)




Here the employement condtions i expect in Zurich:


_ 100kchf gross salary per year

_ 4 week paid leaves per year
_ swiss health and retirement system, since it will be a swiss contract.




I am wondering how these two offers compare to each other. I speak a bit of russian, i have been in russia a few months, and i find interesting to live in the country for some time. But i will need to learn russian very well for my job, invest time in it, and appart of the cultural aspect of the thing, i am asking me if it worths it for the money to take the offer in Russia, or at least the difference with the offers in Zurich is not considerable.


Also, concerning my living style, I am not a spendthrift. I want to save money to take a long trip (several months) in a few years and to invest a bit.






I waiting for your feedback and your experiences on similar choices.




thank you / Danke / merci / спасиба from Germany,

Franzbrotchen


p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; }

Here's my 2 cents opinion (you know what they say about opinions, don't you? :p)

- if you choose Moscow you'll do something different than many other people
- it's a crowded city but not uncivilised, contrary to the dark image it might have
- you'll live in an expat bubble and you'll benefit from higher quality services (of course for a price) private medical care etc etc
- you'll make friends, probably more than you'll ever make here. People who speak foreign languages there are also interested in other cultures and they are really charming (again, contrary to the image they may have)

You are young...with no obligations. Do something different now.

(the funny part is you won't actually do anything that different, but I'll let you discover that yourself)

MusicChick 17.02.2020 11:24

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axa (Post 3148980)
Well.....the reason I got hired is because I can speak and write in French for a company in Baden. French is my 3rd language, meaning I'm truly bad at it and not improving :). Yes, there are Swiss bilinguals in DE and FR, but very few of them want to live on the other region. The exception are Italian speaking ones, they're quite flexible.

I totally understand the feeling of going into hard competition (Zürich) while having an alternative option that looks less grinding. Try Russia, you can always quit if it doesn't work.

I think one has a better shot in more fierce competition (ZH) when one is younger. After a few years in Moscow, there will be even more expats (and younger, easily trainable and cheaper) coming from the same place that OP will have spent a few years. I'd say, if something is tougher, do it now, OP. Leave the easier and more attractive option as a back up. You can always go to Moscow later.

Sultan of Swing 17.02.2020 11:47

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3148994)
I think one has a better shot in more fierce competition (ZH) when one is younger. After a few years in Moscow, there will be even more expats (and younger, easily trainable and cheaper) coming from the same place that OP will have spent a few years. I'd say, if something is tougher, do it now, OP. Leave the easier and more attractive option as a back up. You can always go to Moscow later.


a tougher competion in ZH will be piled up by people, that don't speak Russian, have no desire to go that far abroad, prefer feeling home etc. And most likely they will not advance to a senior role in the next 3-5 years. OP, on the contrary, has advantages that they ought to make use of, and in 3 to 5 years they will likely become a senior manager or equivalent in their role. It is not that country weighs more, it is the experience that does. If OP will be in a position to run a dept/branch in 5 years from now, it will be honored once they decide to move back. Banks after all are standardized, also OP has a technical background, not likely bound to foreign laws and practices.

Phil_MCR 17.02.2020 12:05

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
I'd also take the Russia option. You can always move to Switzerland later if you wanted to and the Russia experience would be valuable.

Plus Moscow is way more fun than Zurich.

Treverus 17.02.2020 12:12

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3148994)
I think one has a better shot in more fierce competition (ZH) when one is younger. After a few years in Moscow, there will be even more expats (and younger, easily trainable and cheaper) coming from the same place that OP will have spent a few years. I'd say, if something is tougher, do it now, OP. Leave the easier and more attractive option as a back up. You can always go to Moscow later.

The simple answer: I am pretty sure my boss has no idea what university degree I have. I am also sure he does know what countries I have lived and worked in. I can say that nothing was a better investment in my career than working abroad for some time and while obviously not the only factor was the experience a key for landing jobs.
And thats also the answer to the "you should plan your finances early" argument. At 26 does the OP have another 40 years of work in front of him. Anything that raises his income and employability has probably a better ROI over that time frame than a few k more income now...

Treverus 17.02.2020 12:15

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil_MCR (Post 3149001)
Plus Moscow is way more fun than Zurich.

Fallujah is probably more fun than Zurich...

jamon8 17.02.2020 14:30

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Also consider, that most of the Russians, which moved here, consciously sacrificed all those career opportunities for the life in this beautiful country. True that with EU passport you can return here easier but it could turn into wasted years as well.

Guest 17.02.2020 14:51

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
I've spent time in Moscow as well as St Petersburg; not lived there, just visited, so my opinion doesn't count for much, although probably a lot more than someone who's never been to Russia.

At your age, OP, I'd take Moscow with a view to staying for three years or so. That would be an invaluable addition to your CV, and the salary they're offering you should be plenty to have a good lifestyle. But you never know what might happen: I went to the UK for two years and stayed seven, came to Switzerland for two years and this is my 11th year now...

Just don't drive in Moscow... or anywhere, much, in Russia... :eek:

MusicChick 17.02.2020 15:04

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
I don't think it will be that much harder for a French person to get a job in Moscow in a couple of years. I think it will be harder for a French person to get a job in Zurich in a few years. Even after a Russian stint.

Nobody I know who does business with Russia is expected to speak Russian.

Axa 17.02.2020 15:04

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jamon8 (Post 3149037)
Also consider, that most of the Russians, which moved here, consciously sacrificed all those career opportunities for the life in this beautiful country. True that with EU passport you can return here easier but it could turn into wasted years as well.

Not necessarily. It all depends on offer and demand of worker skills. Indeed, an interesting number of people with Math, Physics or computer science backgrounds come from Russia to CH. However, it doesn't imply banking competences are not needed and relatively well payed over there.

I've seen lots of well-payed foreigners in my home country, I could earn a lot at home if I had their skills......and I'm a foreigner here, locals could earn my income if they had the skills.


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:26.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0