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-   -   dilemma job in zurich vs moscow (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/296750-dilemma-job-zurich-vs-moscow.html)

Sultan of Swing 17.02.2020 15:14

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axa (Post 3149051)
Not necessarily. It all depends on offer and demand of worker skills. Indeed, an interesting number of people with Math, Physics or computer science backgrounds come from Russia to CH. However, it doesn't imply banking competences are not needed and relatively well payed over there.

I've seen lots of well-payed foreigners in my home country, I could earn a lot at home if I had their skills......and I'm a foreigner here, locals could earn my income if they had the skills.


they are quite fixed on that "Russia" bit, don't you get. Whereas what matters today in ZH and will matter in a few years is experience, i.e. exposure that OP or anybody else, will get, before moving to a new role in ZH or elsewhere.

Treverus 17.02.2020 16:52

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3149050)
Nobody I know who does business with Russia is expected to speak Russian.

I made the exact opposite experience - all Russia desks of Zurich banks are full of native or at least fluent speakers catering to their clients. Maybe the managers get away with less, but thats not the point: Making work experience in Russia doesnt mean that the OP is limited to Russian business for the rest of his life. It only shows that he is flexible and open to new work environments.

Say you are hiring for a private bank doing business in the Middle East. Russian language skills wont help you much. But if I had to pick between a candidate who studied in St Gallen and worked all his life in Zurich vs a guy who did some semester abroad and worked two years in Moscow would I have an easy decision who to invite for the interview first… because one has demonstrated to be able to deal with different cultures.

Sultan of Swing 17.02.2020 20:05

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3149083)
I made the exact opposite experience

jobs.ch have currently 122 openings with "russisch" in the bodies, while not all require Russian(false positives), some are quite interesting and in banking:

https://www.jobs.ch/de/stellenangebote/detail/9483419/
https://www.jobs.ch/de/stellenangebote/detail/9451232/
https://www.jobs.ch/de/stellenangebote/detail/9468761/
https://www.jobs.ch/de/stellenangebote/detail/9461728/


sadly checking groans and other threads I must attest some of those suggesting OP against Moscow have anti-Russia sentiment to various degrees, effectively turning their inputs here to be more biased and less career-oriented.

Nickske 17.02.2020 23:33

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3149050)

Nobody I know who does business with Russia is expected to speak Russian.

Then those people are either lying or not very succesfull in their business in Russia. You will not get anything done in Russia without speaking Russian or having someone speak it for you. As soon as you set foot outside the airport and start speaking anything other than Russian, your cab ride has just gotten more expensive.

Go to Moscow, you will never regret it.

Irina Etoya 27.05.2020 16:17

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
I would love to know what the author has chosen finally :msnblush:
I am a native Russian living in Switzerland, so I have somewhat seen both sides :msncool:

Taking into account the background of the author I would recommend Russia for the following reasons:
1. international experience and totally different culture (yes, Switzerland is also another country, but people move between EU countries a way more often than between a EU and non-EU country, which really makes the experience different)
2. quite a difficult language which would be a strong advantage after learning it
3. salary - cost of living ratio: although Swiss salary is much higher, cost of living here is also really high, while in Moscow the author would have much more money left to enjoy after deduction of all the necessary spends)
4. further growth: there are lots of work opportunities in Moscow in top management. and beleive me - a top manager in Moscow does have a good salary

There is one more really important point - the way the author spends his free time. If he is a kind of person that loves sports and nature, then Switzerland would fit much better. If he likes to party and a lot of rush and a really fast way of living, then Moscow. Life in Moscow is crazy, it is really crowded, busy and somewhat crazy. This is a money-making center of the country where you can find whatever you need 24/7

p.s: really curious what the author has chosen :msngrin:

Joros 27.05.2020 22:36

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
All of the comments seemed to be focused on the presumption that everything in life goes well and according to the plans...well, good luck if things go south in Moscow, e.g. you lose your job or (god forbid!) you get in a more serious trouble there - Russia is not really known as a rule of law country!
On the other hand, the worst that could happen here is getting a parking ticket or having grumpy neighbours!

slammer 28.05.2020 07:01

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joros (Post 3185641)
All of the comments seemed to be focused on the presumption that everything in life goes well and according to the plans...well, good luck if things go south in Moscow, e.g. you lose your job or (god forbid!) you get in a more serious trouble there - Russia is not really known as a rule of law country!
On the other hand, the worst that could happen here is getting a parking ticket or having grumpy neighbours!

A ship is safe in harbor, but that is not what ships are for.
When something goes wrong it´s how you handle it that counts, the timid will fall and only the strong survive and even in CH things can go wrong, you can slip in the shower, choke on a fondue, get flattened by a tram catching up for being two seconds late.

curley 28.05.2020 11:41

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
I'd actually like to know what's been decided too. Unfortunately Franzbrötchen did it the way many do: Threw the question in and took off, never to return since March.

I'll just make up my own story: She took off to Russia, is still settling in and waiting for Snowden to install that tap-proof connection to EF to report back.

Joros 28.05.2020 16:53

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by slammer (Post 3185692)
A ship is safe in harbor, but that is not what ships are for.
When something goes wrong it´s how you handle it that counts, the timid will fall and only the strong survive and even in CH things can go wrong, you can slip in the shower, choke on a fondue, get flattened by a tram catching up for being two seconds late.

As a bottom line, Russia seems like a great place to test the theory of evolution, 21st century edition. Seriously, regardless of ideological bias - there must be something wrong with a country with:

1. the highest number of people who inject drugs in the region.
2. HIV epidemic growing, with the rate of new infections rising by between 10 and 15% each year.
3. has the highest divorce rate in the world.
4. more than half of the 18 to 24 year-old population would like to emigrate.

Treverus 28.05.2020 17:16

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joros (Post 3185863)
As a bottom line, Russia seems like a great place to test the theory of evolution, 21st century edition. Seriously, regardless of ideological bias - there must be something wrong with a country with:

1. the highest number of people who inject drugs in the region.

Yeah, why can’t they abuse prescription opioids like civilized people?

gaburko 28.05.2020 17:20

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Irina Etoya (Post 3185455)
Taking into account the background of the author I would recommend Russia...

And yet, here you are, in Switzerland. Not very convincing is it?:D:D:D

Joros 28.05.2020 23:40

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3185873)
Yeah, why can’t they abuse prescription opioids like civilized people?

You can't get HIV from these, at least...:D

Guest 29.05.2020 10:11

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joros (Post 3186020)
You can't get HIV from these, at least...:D

You can't? That's news to me, and a lot of other people...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30132259/

https://www.bccsu.ca/wp-content/uplo...es-10.2017.pdf

https://www.albertahealthservices.ca...in-therapy.pdf

https://www.ajmc.com/newsroom/opioid...epidemic-in-us

LifeStrain 29.05.2020 10:37

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Advice from native:

Moscow, also referred to by locals as "Msk", "Non-rubber", "Whitestone", "Third Rome", "Moskvabad", etc. is quite a controversial place to live.


Drawbacks:

- climate is shit. From September to March you will have grey sky, rain/snow, cold. In January it can get -20...-30C. Air is very polluted.

It gets unbearable every August with forest fires, i.e. it was this bad in 2010:
https://bigpicture.ru/wp-content/upl...17/07/zagg.jpg
It has gotten somewhat better since then but still very bad.

in addition, in June you have loads of poplar fluff:
https://cdni.rbth.com/rbthmedia/imag...27c12edd7a.jpg
while it may look exciting an cool in reality is sticks everywhere and constantly hits your eyes/nose, making June unbearable.

Basically, this makes Moscow livable only in April, May and July and sometimes September. The rest of your life will be sprints from one coffee shop to another under rain/snow/cold.

-whatever bad shit happens the government will be covering up and downplaying the risks (corona is example).

-healthcare is so so. Basic stuff is for free, but it is so bad, that you should avoid it. Private healthcare is much better, but comes at a cost. Also, if you happen to get into deep shit healthwise, well... you are on your own, few health insurances would actually cover things like cancer therapy or complex surgeries.

Moscow pros:

- cost of living is relatively low, if you don't rent in downtown. Metro will bring you everywhere in under 40 min. But without knowing Russian many things may get more expensive, just because the locals will be willing to screw you over.

- girls have foreigner fetish. Go to a bar and say you are a foreigner - they are all yours, don't even need to speak a word of Russian. This has something to do with what Joros wrote above:
Quote:

more than half of the 18 to 24 year-old population would like to emigrate.
- cultural activities are plentiful. Even in the middle of the crisis these Russians will still find resources to have a feast. Nevertheless, fancy cultural events like visiting Opera / Bolshoi will cost considerable amount of money.

Summary:

I have some doubts if 3300 EUR/net per month is a truthful number for a 24y/old with 6 month experience. Median salary in Moscow is around 1-1.5k, and even though banking pays higher, I cannot imagine why would they pay more than 2k for an inexperienced grad. I know an experienced (~10y) Product Manager in a large multinational and he earns about that money. The only place where such compensation for an entry-level job would in theory be possible are top-tier consultancies/private banking.

Nevertheless, if this is what the OP was truly offered, it is an excellent deal. Go to Moscow for 2-3 years, party, learn the language, get a hot wife and then move on to Switzerland/France. Everything more than 2-3 years in Msk will be a waste of your time and will cause health problems in the long run.

I myself consider coming back to Msk to some fancy consultancy for 2-3 years, for exactly the same reasons. Then back to CH or Australia, of course.

MusicChick 29.05.2020 10:57

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeStrain (Post 3186112)

That actually looks lovely.

I would go because my Russian is getting rusty and I do not like it. I would also go for the high quality cultural and art life. Or maybe I am just being sad becuase our April Moscow concert trip got cancelled. Was looking forward for some other borsch than the one coming out of my kitchen.

But their expansive politics turn me off

LifeStrain 29.05.2020 11:06

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3186120)
That actually looks lovely.

Even more fun to burn it off with a lighter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltaMYRjQu5c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu1vr8w1qIY

But, you may get fined for that, and this causes severe fires and damage every year.

But really, not worth it, it is very irritating when it hits your eyes and nose. Most adults hate it.

MusicChick 29.05.2020 11:08

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeStrain (Post 3186126)
But really, not worth it, it is very irritating when it hits you eyes and nose.

And when it does, what kind of ругательство do you say.. I would say the French word but people would think I was talking to your president :D

My symphonic trip was gonna be very educational.

The vids are bizarro, must be the season for pyros. There isn't much of тополиный пух here, I have not seen so many poplars here.

Sultan of Swing 29.05.2020 13:40

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3186129)
And when it does, what kind of ругательство do you say.. I would say the French word but people would think I was talking to your president :D

My symphonic trip was gonna be very educational.

The vids are bizarro, must be the season for pyros. There isn't much of тополиный пух here, I have not seen so many poplars here.


this isn't a topic on your personal trips either, yet you deleted my humble link to a very-well known vid about "тополиный пух", oh and btw this is an english speaking forum, so perhaps next time you should provide a translation.



anyway, here we go again, and be sure to read the bit on very-well known vid above:
https://youtu.be/lvCErYl62Zs

MusicChick 29.05.2020 13:47

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sultan of Swing (Post 3186207)
"тополиный пух"

= poplar seeds

Thanks for adding more than just a web link.


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