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-   -   dilemma job in zurich vs moscow (https://www.englishforum.ch/employment/296750-dilemma-job-zurich-vs-moscow.html)

Franzbrotchen 15.02.2020 02:39

dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Hello all,


To present myself quickly, I am a 24 years old french, currently working in Germany since 6 months for my first job. I enjoy my current situation, but i don t seem me staying long term in my current job.


In the near futur (second part of 2020), i will have the opportunity to relocate to Russia within my company. At the same time, i plan to apply for jobs in Switzerland.


I know pretty well the employement conditions i will receveid in both cases, since i am new graduate/junior, but i struggle to compare them, since it's countries and cities i know little about.




Here the employement condtions within my company in Moscow:


_ 3200-3300€ net salary per month (directly on my bank account)
_ 6 week paid leaves per year
_ good health insurance included
_ average retirement plan (upgrade with time)




Here the employement condtions i expect in Zurich:


_ 100kchf gross salary per year

_ 4 week paid leaves per year
_ swiss health and retirement system, since it will be a swiss contract.




I am wondering how these two offers compare to each other. I speak a bit of russian, i have been in russia a few months, and i find interesting to live in the country for some time. But i will need to learn russian very well for my job, invest time in it, and appart of the cultural aspect of the thing, i am asking me if it worths it for the money to take the offer in Russia, or at least the difference with the offers in Zurich is not considerable.


Also, concerning my living style, I am not a spendthrift. I want to save money to take a long trip (several months) in a few years and to invest a bit.






I waiting for your feedback and your experiences on similar choices.




thank you / Danke / merci / спасиба from Germany,

Franzbrotchen


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roegner 15.02.2020 08:16

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Welcome to the forum.

How do you get to a salary of 100k? It seems quite high for someone with 6 months experience.


Have a look in the employment section, you‘ll find other threads on salaries that may give you insight in what is possible.

omtatsat 15.02.2020 08:33

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Franzbrotchen (Post 3148371)
Hello all,


To present myself quickly, I am a 24 years old french, currently working in Germany since 6 months for my first job. I enjoy my current situation, but i don t seem me staying long term in my current job.


In the near futur (second part of 2020), i will have the opportunity to relocate to Russia within my company. At the same time, i plan to apply for jobs in Switzerland.


I know pretty well the employement conditions i will receveid in both cases, since i am new graduate/junior, but i struggle to compare them, since it's countries and cities i know little about.




Here the employement condtions within my company in Moscow:


_ 3200-3300€ net salary per month (directly on my bank account)
_ 6 week paid leaves per year
_ good health insurance included
_ average retirement plan (upgrade with time)




Here the employement condtions i expect in Zurich:


_ 100kchf gross salary per year

_ 4 week paid leaves per year
_ swiss health and retirement system, since it will be a swiss contract.




I am wondering how these two offers compare to each other. I speak a bit of russian, i have been in russia a few months, and i find interesting to live in the country for some time. But i will need to learn russian very well for my job, invest time in it, and appart of the cultural aspect of the thing, i am asking me if it worths it for the money to take the offer in Russia, or at least the difference with the offers in Zurich is not considerable.


Also, concerning my living style, I am not a spendthrift. I want to save money to take a long trip (several months) in a few years and to invest a bit.






I waiting for your feedback and your experiences on similar choices.




thank you / Danke / merci / спасиба from Germany,

Franzbrotchen


p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; }

thats easy. Switzerland. With such a high salary 7800Euro a month

MusicChick 15.02.2020 09:10

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Zurich. CH is one of the most stable places on earth. Which I would not say about Russia. You can always travel there for culture and language.

omtatsat 15.02.2020 09:11

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Who would want to live in dictatorial russia? And its so cold there!

MusicChick 15.02.2020 09:16

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by omtatsat (Post 3148391)
Who would want to live in dictatorial russia? And its so cold there!

Could be a career move for OP, what do we know. Dictatorial might not even reach him if he/she is under a protection of an international ubercompany.

Franzbrotchen 15.02.2020 12:08

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Thank you to both of you for your very quick answers.


Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 3148378)
Welcome to the forum.

How do you get to a salary of 100k? It seems quite high for someone with 6 months experience.


Have a look in the employment section, you‘ll find other threads on salaries that may give you insight in what is possible.

I work in the banking sector, in corporate banking, and did studies in engineering. by 100k chf gross, it's all included (salary + small bonus).

Quote:

Originally Posted by omtatsat (Post 3148382)
Thats easy. Switzerland. With such a high salary 7800Euro a month

Quote:

Originally Posted by omtatsat (Post 3148391)
Who would want to live in dictatorial russia? And its so cold there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3148392)
Could be a career move for OP, what do we know. Dictatorial might not even reach him if he/she is under a protection of an international ubercompany.

It's seem that in my initial post, i emphasize a lot my short term financial situation, but i omitted some details.

As MusicChick said, i see the situation mainly as a career/ "life" move, for a few years:
_ If i take the job in zurich, i will get a very good situation. But opportunities will be quite standard/limited. I will have nothing "special", I will be a french, with a good level in german, you might as well hire a Swiss citizen who's bilingual.

_ If i take the job in Moscow, i expect to not have the same saving or purchasing power at the beginning. But, after there is room to get more responsabilities (in my case, it implies a more interesting job, and higher salary), since they are less highly skilled foreigners in comparaison with Switzerland. Also, i value culturally and financially a lot the knowledge of Russian (know languages can be a differentiating point in my job function).



Political games at high decision level happens in every countries, and in Russia in particular do to its natural ressources, military power and its geographic position. But me and you, we are not concerned. Moscow is safer than a large part of european capitals.

Concerning "dictatorship", i don't know Switzerland, so i can't speak about it. i'am going to speak about the capital of my home country, Paris. I faced anti-white racism, saw thefs, unacceptable behavior and dumbass attitudes, both from citizens / foreigners. People are very very hypocrital, striking for "human rights", because they want to keep their middle age system, not hesitating to break everything and block the freedom of others. Blindness to immigration and the management of state finances. So from my point of view, if you don't want to "change the world" and impose your values, russian "dictatorship" is quite good at least for a foreigner.

me.anon 15.02.2020 12:16

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
I'm just curious, but what is the nature of the job incidentally where Russia is recruiting here? Pharma, IT, finance or what ?

me.anon 15.02.2020 12:25

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by omtatsat (Post 3148391)
Who would want to live in dictatorial russia? And its so cold there!

I expect in Russia, you'd also have to contend with ridiculous rules such as not being permitted to flush the toilet after 10pm.

Plau Deri 15.02.2020 12:45

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
I would most likely choose Russia over Switzerland. First, you'd have the opportunity to learn and use a pretty difficult language and then you would also learn to live in a very different cultural/social environment from the one you know. Both are very good life experiences and also look good on any cv.

Plus, if you're lucky, they might even have a correct winter there still now and then.

Good luck!

Franzbrotchen 15.02.2020 13:00

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by me.anon (Post 3148430)
I'm just curious, but what is the nature of the job incidentally where Russia is recruiting here? Pharma, IT, finance or what ?

Do you mean "why russian is useful to find a job" ?

Due to the geographic roximity and historical relationship between Western Europe and Russia, many middle-sized and large-sized european compagnies do business or have subsidiaries in Russia. For instance, french companies like Renault-Nissan(Ла́да), Auchan(АШАН), Total or Société Générale(РОСБАНК) have there important subsidiaries.

European companies are therefore regularly looking for foreigners to work in Russia.

Concerning jobs in western Europe for which russian language is a differenciating point, there are the jobs in sales related to Eastern Europe and CIS (Commonwealth of Independent States) across all industries, and jobs related to internal control / management / support functions in large compagnies (internal auditor for instance).

In Switzerland in particular, i'am pretty sure it's useful to know russian for private banking, luxury, and tourism.

Chuff 15.02.2020 13:07

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Franzbrotchen (Post 3148371)
Hello all,


To present myself quickly, I am a 24 years old french, currently working in Germany since 6 months for my first job. I enjoy my current situation, but i don t seem me staying long term in my current job.


In the near futur (second part of 2020), i will have the opportunity to relocate to Russia within my company. At the same time, i plan to apply for jobs in Switzerland.


I know pretty well the employement conditions i will receveid in both cases, since i am new graduate/junior, but i struggle to compare them, since it's countries and cities i know little about.




Here the employement condtions within my company in Moscow:


_ 3200-3300€ net salary per month (directly on my bank account)
_ 6 week paid leaves per year
_ good health insurance included
_ average retirement plan (upgrade with time)




Here the employement condtions i expect in Zurich:


_ 100kchf gross salary per year

_ 4 week paid leaves per year
_ swiss health and retirement system, since it will be a swiss contract.




I am wondering how these two offers compare to each other. I speak a bit of russian, i have been in russia a few months, and i find interesting to live in the country for some time. But i will need to learn russian very well for my job, invest time in it, and appart of the cultural aspect of the thing, i am asking me if it worths it for the money to take the offer in Russia, or at least the difference with the offers in Zurich is not considerable.


Also, concerning my living style, I am not a spendthrift. I want to save money to take a long trip (several months) in a few years and to invest a bit.






I waiting for your feedback and your experiences on similar choices.




thank you / Danke / merci / спасиба from Germany,

Franzbrotchen


p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; }

You are asking on a Swiss-based forum whether you should live in Russia or Switzerland... where's the punchline? :rofl:

Have you even done any research on both countries and looked at the social and political landscape?

MusicChick 15.02.2020 13:12

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Franzbrotchen (Post 3148443)
Do you mean "why russian is useful to find a job" ?

Due to the geographic roximity and historical relationship between Western Europe and Russia, many middle-sized and large-sized european compagnies do business or have subsidiaries in Russia. For instance, french companies like Renault-Nissan(Ла́да), Auchan(АШАН), Total or Société Générale(РОСБАНК) have there important subsidiaries.

European companies are therefore regularly looking for foreigners to work in Russia.

Concerning jobs in western Europe for which russian language is a differenciating point, there are the jobs in sales related to Eastern Europe and CIS (Commonwealth of Independent States) across all industries, and jobs related to internal control / management / support functions in large compagnies (internal auditor for instance).

In Switzerland in particular, i'am pretty sure it's useful to know russian for private banking, luxury, and tourism.

Eastern Europe will not trade using Russian as a language of trade. Just sayin'.

нет нет

olygirl 15.02.2020 13:18

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Go to Moscow and then back to Zürich.

eyebeebe 15.02.2020 13:38

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
With six months experience in banking think more like 90k including bonus in Switzerland, not 100k. You are a career starter/new grad. After 18 months 100k is more realistic.

McTAVGE 15.02.2020 13:46

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Franzbrotchen (Post 3148426)
Thank you to both of you for your very quick answers.




I work in the banking sector, in corporate banking, and did studies in engineering. by 100k chf gross, it's all included (salary + small bonus).







It's seem that in my initial post, i emphasize a lot my short term financial situation, but i omitted some details.

As MusicChick said, i see the situation mainly as a career/ "life" move, for a few years:
_ If i take the job in zurich, i will get a very good situation. But opportunities will be quite standard/limited. I will have nothing "special", I will be a french, with a good level in german, you might as well hire a Swiss citizen who's bilingual.

_ If i take the job in Moscow, i expect to not have the same saving or purchasing power at the beginning. But, after there is room to get more responsabilities (in my case, it implies a more interesting job, and higher salary), since they are less highly skilled foreigners in comparaison with Switzerland. Also, i value culturally and financially a lot the knowledge of Russian (know languages can be a differentiating point in my job function).





Political games at high decision level happens in every countries, and in Russia in particular do to its natural ressources, military power and its geographic position. But me and you, we are not concerned. Moscow is safer than a large part of european capitals.

Concerning "dictatorship", i don't know Switzerland, so i can't speak about it. i'am going to speak about the capital of my home country, Paris. I faced anti-white racism, saw thefs, unacceptable behavior and dumbass attitudes, both from citizens / foreigners. People are very very hypocrital, striking for "human rights", because they want to keep their middle age system, not hesitating to break everything and block the freedom of others. Blindness to immigration and the management of state finances. So from my point of view, if you don't want to "change the world" and impose your values, russian "dictatorship" is quite good at least for a foreigner.



Talking about blocking the freedom of others, I hope you are not gay if going to Russia. Their treatment is quite Middle Ages, as you describe it. Apart from that, I hear it is a beautiful country.

Sultan of Swing 15.02.2020 14:14

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
you answered your question already:


Quote:

But opportunities will be quite standard/limited. I will have nothing "special", I will be a french, with a good level in german, you might as well hire a Swiss citizen who's bilingual.
there are many of your kind in Western Europe, also it is your home - you know how it rolls and what to expect. If it does not work in Russia you always will be able to get back, assuming you will be working until then you won't lose much career-wise. But you will be telling stories of your Russian period of your life to your grandkids thats for sure. And if Russia will work out:



Quote:

But, after there is room to get more responsabilities (in my case, it implies a more interesting job, and higher salary), since they are less highly skilled foreigners in comparaison with Switzerland.
you will become a big fish relatively fast, exactly because of the reasons you mentioned. If you are young and unmarried - Eastern Europe all the way.


Удачи!


N.B. to broaden your auditorium I'd suggest to gather more opinions on r/cscareerquestionsEU and r/russia

curley 15.02.2020 14:15

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by omtatsat (Post 3148382)
thats easy. Switzerland. With such a high salary 7800Euro a month

It's just as easy for me the other way around. :rolleyes:
  • I may be wrong but I think as a French, it is easier to get a job in Switzerland than in Russia. Therefore grab the chance to go to Russia. (Switzerland you can do when you're old, slightly phlegmatic and crave security. :D)
  • Experience working in Russia/speaking the language well (which you will once you leave there) is good in your cv.
  • At the age of 24 it's not the money that should come first but the experiences to collect and possibilities offered.

I would go for it (or I would have went for it, had I ever been offered).
That of course is subjective but subjective is all you can get on a forum. :)

leonie 15.02.2020 14:20

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
I have never lived in Moscow, only visited several times. In Zurich I have lived for over a year. For me it would be no question, I would have chosen Zurich. In fact I would never want to live in Moscow. I find the living conditions in Moscow not attractive at all, the city is very big, crowded, overpopulated, not a nice place to live.

Chuff 15.02.2020 14:22

Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by curley (Post 3148475)
It's just as easy for me the other way around. :D
  • I may be wrong but I think as a French, it is easier to get a job in Switzerland than in Russia. Therefore grab the chance to go to Russia. (Switzerland you can do when you're old, slightly phlegmatic and crave security. :D)
  • Experience working in Russia/speaking the language well (which you will once you leave there) is good in your cv.
  • At the age of 24 it's not the money that should come first but the experiences to collect and possibilities offered.

I would go for it (or I would have went for it, had I ever been offered).
That of course is subjective but subjective is all you can get on a forum. :)

Completely disagree. If I could go back in time and tell my 24 year old self to immediately go to Switzerland then I would do. You should start working on your career and financial security as quickly as possible, because the later you start the more painful life will be.

Russia is an openly (and I mean in your face, not behind your back) racist and prejudiced, sexist, corrupt and decadent hellhole run by a dictator (in all but name). I don't even want to go there on a short holiday, never mind work working there and having long-term exposure to that awful environment. I know a Russian lady that worked in Russian banks both here and in Russia and her stories about the corporate cultures were not pleasant.

Of course I am sure there are nice people there and I am sure it is a lot of soulless fun for a single person, but that isn't enough to offset the many, many disadvantages I think it has in its social and political landscape.


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