Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 15.02.2020, 02:39
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Germany
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Franzbrotchen has no particular reputation at present
dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

Hello all,


To present myself quickly, I am a 24 years old french, currently working in Germany since 6 months for my first job. I enjoy my current situation, but i don t seem me staying long term in my current job.


In the near futur (second part of 2020), i will have the opportunity to relocate to Russia within my company. At the same time, i plan to apply for jobs in Switzerland.


I know pretty well the employement conditions i will receveid in both cases, since i am new graduate/junior, but i struggle to compare them, since it's countries and cities i know little about.




Here the employement condtions within my company in Moscow:


_ 3200-3300€ net salary per month (directly on my bank account)
_ 6 week paid leaves per year
_ good health insurance included
_ average retirement plan (upgrade with time)




Here the employement condtions i expect in Zurich:


_ 100kchf gross salary per year

_ 4 week paid leaves per year
_ swiss health and retirement system, since it will be a swiss contract.




I am wondering how these two offers compare to each other. I speak a bit of russian, i have been in russia a few months, and i find interesting to live in the country for some time. But i will need to learn russian very well for my job, invest time in it, and appart of the cultural aspect of the thing, i am asking me if it worths it for the money to take the offer in Russia, or at least the difference with the offers in Zurich is not considerable.


Also, concerning my living style, I am not a spendthrift. I want to save money to take a long trip (several months) in a few years and to invest a bit.






I waiting for your feedback and your experiences on similar choices.




thank you / Danke / merci / спасиба from Germany,

Franzbrotchen


p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; }
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 15.02.2020, 08:16
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,107
Groaned at 369 Times in 310 Posts
Thanked 14,028 Times in 6,528 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

Welcome to the forum.

How do you get to a salary of 100k? It seems quite high for someone with 6 months experience.


Have a look in the employment section, you‘ll find other threads on salaries that may give you insight in what is possible.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 15.02.2020, 08:33
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,971
Groaned at 2,032 Times in 1,120 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

Quote:
View Post
Hello all,


To present myself quickly, I am a 24 years old french, currently working in Germany since 6 months for my first job. I enjoy my current situation, but i don t seem me staying long term in my current job.


In the near futur (second part of 2020), i will have the opportunity to relocate to Russia within my company. At the same time, i plan to apply for jobs in Switzerland.


I know pretty well the employement conditions i will receveid in both cases, since i am new graduate/junior, but i struggle to compare them, since it's countries and cities i know little about.




Here the employement condtions within my company in Moscow:


_ 3200-3300€ net salary per month (directly on my bank account)
_ 6 week paid leaves per year
_ good health insurance included
_ average retirement plan (upgrade with time)




Here the employement condtions i expect in Zurich:


_ 100kchf gross salary per year

_ 4 week paid leaves per year
_ swiss health and retirement system, since it will be a swiss contract.




I am wondering how these two offers compare to each other. I speak a bit of russian, i have been in russia a few months, and i find interesting to live in the country for some time. But i will need to learn russian very well for my job, invest time in it, and appart of the cultural aspect of the thing, i am asking me if it worths it for the money to take the offer in Russia, or at least the difference with the offers in Zurich is not considerable.


Also, concerning my living style, I am not a spendthrift. I want to save money to take a long trip (several months) in a few years and to invest a bit.






I waiting for your feedback and your experiences on similar choices.




thank you / Danke / merci / спасиба from Germany,

Franzbrotchen


p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; }
thats easy. Switzerland. With such a high salary 7800Euro a month
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 15.02.2020, 09:10
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,489
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

Zurich. CH is one of the most stable places on earth. Which I would not say about Russia. You can always travel there for culture and language.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 15.02.2020, 09:11
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,971
Groaned at 2,032 Times in 1,120 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

Who would want to live in dictatorial russia? And its so cold there!
Reply With Quote
This user groans at omtatsat for this post:
  #6  
Old 15.02.2020, 09:16
MusicChick's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,489
Groaned at 414 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 20,428 Times in 10,577 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

Quote:
View Post
Who would want to live in dictatorial russia? And its so cold there!
Could be a career move for OP, what do we know. Dictatorial might not even reach him if he/she is under a protection of an international ubercompany.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 15.02.2020, 12:08
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Germany
Posts: 3
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Franzbrotchen has no particular reputation at present
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

Thank you to both of you for your very quick answers.


Quote:
View Post
Welcome to the forum.

How do you get to a salary of 100k? It seems quite high for someone with 6 months experience.


Have a look in the employment section, you‘ll find other threads on salaries that may give you insight in what is possible.
I work in the banking sector, in corporate banking, and did studies in engineering. by 100k chf gross, it's all included (salary + small bonus).

Quote:
View Post
Thats easy. Switzerland. With such a high salary 7800Euro a month
Quote:
View Post
Who would want to live in dictatorial russia? And its so cold there!
Quote:
View Post
Could be a career move for OP, what do we know. Dictatorial might not even reach him if he/she is under a protection of an international ubercompany.
It's seem that in my initial post, i emphasize a lot my short term financial situation, but i omitted some details.

As MusicChick said, i see the situation mainly as a career/ "life" move, for a few years:
_ If i take the job in zurich, i will get a very good situation. But opportunities will be quite standard/limited. I will have nothing "special", I will be a french, with a good level in german, you might as well hire a Swiss citizen who's bilingual.

_ If i take the job in Moscow, i expect to not have the same saving or purchasing power at the beginning. But, after there is room to get more responsabilities (in my case, it implies a more interesting job, and higher salary), since they are less highly skilled foreigners in comparaison with Switzerland. Also, i value culturally and financially a lot the knowledge of Russian (know languages can be a differentiating point in my job function).



Political games at high decision level happens in every countries, and in Russia in particular do to its natural ressources, military power and its geographic position. But me and you, we are not concerned. Moscow is safer than a large part of european capitals.

Concerning "dictatorship", i don't know Switzerland, so i can't speak about it. i'am going to speak about the capital of my home country, Paris. I faced anti-white racism, saw thefs, unacceptable behavior and dumbass attitudes, both from citizens / foreigners. People are very very hypocrital, striking for "human rights", because they want to keep their middle age system, not hesitating to break everything and block the freedom of others. Blindness to immigration and the management of state finances. So from my point of view, if you don't want to "change the world" and impose your values, russian "dictatorship" is quite good at least for a foreigner.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Franzbrotchen for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 15.02.2020, 17:01
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,971
Groaned at 2,032 Times in 1,120 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

Quote:
View Post
Could be a career move for OP, what do we know. Dictatorial might not even reach him if he/she is under a protection of an international ubercompany.
Nobody and certainly no company is safe in that country
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank omtatsat for this useful post:
The following 3 users groan at omtatsat for this post:
  #9  
Old 15.02.2020, 12:25
me.anon's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: thun
Posts: 2,163
Groaned at 49 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,861 Times in 1,387 Posts
me.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond reputeme.anon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

Quote:
View Post
Who would want to live in dictatorial russia? And its so cold there!
I expect in Russia, you'd also have to contend with ridiculous rules such as not being permitted to flush the toilet after 10pm.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 15.02.2020, 12:45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Japan
Posts: 340
Groaned at 24 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 529 Times in 222 Posts
Plau Deri has an excellent reputationPlau Deri has an excellent reputationPlau Deri has an excellent reputationPlau Deri has an excellent reputation
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

I would most likely choose Russia over Switzerland. First, you'd have the opportunity to learn and use a pretty difficult language and then you would also learn to live in a very different cultural/social environment from the one you know. Both are very good life experiences and also look good on any cv.

Plus, if you're lucky, they might even have a correct winter there still now and then.

Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 15.02.2020, 13:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,357
Groaned at 1,241 Times in 823 Posts
Thanked 19,421 Times in 7,506 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

Quote:
View Post
Hello all,


To present myself quickly, I am a 24 years old french, currently working in Germany since 6 months for my first job. I enjoy my current situation, but i don t seem me staying long term in my current job.


In the near futur (second part of 2020), i will have the opportunity to relocate to Russia within my company. At the same time, i plan to apply for jobs in Switzerland.


I know pretty well the employement conditions i will receveid in both cases, since i am new graduate/junior, but i struggle to compare them, since it's countries and cities i know little about.




Here the employement condtions within my company in Moscow:


_ 3200-3300€ net salary per month (directly on my bank account)
_ 6 week paid leaves per year
_ good health insurance included
_ average retirement plan (upgrade with time)




Here the employement condtions i expect in Zurich:


_ 100kchf gross salary per year

_ 4 week paid leaves per year
_ swiss health and retirement system, since it will be a swiss contract.




I am wondering how these two offers compare to each other. I speak a bit of russian, i have been in russia a few months, and i find interesting to live in the country for some time. But i will need to learn russian very well for my job, invest time in it, and appart of the cultural aspect of the thing, i am asking me if it worths it for the money to take the offer in Russia, or at least the difference with the offers in Zurich is not considerable.


Also, concerning my living style, I am not a spendthrift. I want to save money to take a long trip (several months) in a few years and to invest a bit.






I waiting for your feedback and your experiences on similar choices.




thank you / Danke / merci / спасиба from Germany,

Franzbrotchen


p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; }
You are asking on a Swiss-based forum whether you should live in Russia or Switzerland... where's the punchline?

Have you even done any research on both countries and looked at the social and political landscape?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 17.02.2020, 11:17
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,777
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,740 Times in 8,051 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

Quote:
View Post
Hello all,


To present myself quickly, I am a 24 years old french, currently working in Germany since 6 months for my first job. I enjoy my current situation, but i don t seem me staying long term in my current job.


In the near futur (second part of 2020), i will have the opportunity to relocate to Russia within my company. At the same time, i plan to apply for jobs in Switzerland.


I know pretty well the employement conditions i will receveid in both cases, since i am new graduate/junior, but i struggle to compare them, since it's countries and cities i know little about.




Here the employement condtions within my company in Moscow:


_ 3200-3300€ net salary per month (directly on my bank account)
_ 6 week paid leaves per year
_ good health insurance included
_ average retirement plan (upgrade with time)




Here the employement condtions i expect in Zurich:


_ 100kchf gross salary per year

_ 4 week paid leaves per year
_ swiss health and retirement system, since it will be a swiss contract.




I am wondering how these two offers compare to each other. I speak a bit of russian, i have been in russia a few months, and i find interesting to live in the country for some time. But i will need to learn russian very well for my job, invest time in it, and appart of the cultural aspect of the thing, i am asking me if it worths it for the money to take the offer in Russia, or at least the difference with the offers in Zurich is not considerable.


Also, concerning my living style, I am not a spendthrift. I want to save money to take a long trip (several months) in a few years and to invest a bit.






I waiting for your feedback and your experiences on similar choices.




thank you / Danke / merci / спасиба from Germany,

Franzbrotchen


p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; }
Here's my 2 cents opinion (you know what they say about opinions, don't you? )

- if you choose Moscow you'll do something different than many other people
- it's a crowded city but not uncivilised, contrary to the dark image it might have
- you'll live in an expat bubble and you'll benefit from higher quality services (of course for a price) private medical care etc etc
- you'll make friends, probably more than you'll ever make here. People who speak foreign languages there are also interested in other cultures and they are really charming (again, contrary to the image they may have)

You are young...with no obligations. Do something different now.

(the funny part is you won't actually do anything that different, but I'll let you discover that yourself)
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 27.05.2020, 16:17
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Irina Etoya has no particular reputation at present
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

I would love to know what the author has chosen finally
I am a native Russian living in Switzerland, so I have somewhat seen both sides

Taking into account the background of the author I would recommend Russia for the following reasons:
1. international experience and totally different culture (yes, Switzerland is also another country, but people move between EU countries a way more often than between a EU and non-EU country, which really makes the experience different)
2. quite a difficult language which would be a strong advantage after learning it
3. salary - cost of living ratio: although Swiss salary is much higher, cost of living here is also really high, while in Moscow the author would have much more money left to enjoy after deduction of all the necessary spends)
4. further growth: there are lots of work opportunities in Moscow in top management. and beleive me - a top manager in Moscow does have a good salary

There is one more really important point - the way the author spends his free time. If he is a kind of person that loves sports and nature, then Switzerland would fit much better. If he likes to party and a lot of rush and a really fast way of living, then Moscow. Life in Moscow is crazy, it is really crowded, busy and somewhat crazy. This is a money-making center of the country where you can find whatever you need 24/7

p.s: really curious what the author has chosen
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 27.05.2020, 22:36
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 163
Groaned at 18 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 129 Times in 55 Posts
Joros has earned some respectJoros has earned some respect
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

All of the comments seemed to be focused on the presumption that everything in life goes well and according to the plans...well, good luck if things go south in Moscow, e.g. you lose your job or (god forbid!) you get in a more serious trouble there - Russia is not really known as a rule of law country!
On the other hand, the worst that could happen here is getting a parking ticket or having grumpy neighbours!
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Joros for this post:
  #15  
Old 28.05.2020, 07:01
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,295
Groaned at 146 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 9,200 Times in 3,486 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

Quote:
View Post
All of the comments seemed to be focused on the presumption that everything in life goes well and according to the plans...well, good luck if things go south in Moscow, e.g. you lose your job or (god forbid!) you get in a more serious trouble there - Russia is not really known as a rule of law country!
On the other hand, the worst that could happen here is getting a parking ticket or having grumpy neighbours!
A ship is safe in harbor, but that is not what ships are for.
When something goes wrong it´s how you handle it that counts, the timid will fall and only the strong survive and even in CH things can go wrong, you can slip in the shower, choke on a fondue, get flattened by a tram catching up for being two seconds late.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 28.05.2020, 11:41
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,131
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,262 Times in 7,845 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

I'd actually like to know what's been decided too. Unfortunately Franzbrötchen did it the way many do: Threw the question in and took off, never to return since March.

I'll just make up my own story: She took off to Russia, is still settling in and waiting for Snowden to install that tap-proof connection to EF to report back.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 28.05.2020, 16:53
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 163
Groaned at 18 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 129 Times in 55 Posts
Joros has earned some respectJoros has earned some respect
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

Quote:
View Post
A ship is safe in harbor, but that is not what ships are for.
When something goes wrong it´s how you handle it that counts, the timid will fall and only the strong survive and even in CH things can go wrong, you can slip in the shower, choke on a fondue, get flattened by a tram catching up for being two seconds late.
As a bottom line, Russia seems like a great place to test the theory of evolution, 21st century edition. Seriously, regardless of ideological bias - there must be something wrong with a country with:

1. the highest number of people who inject drugs in the region.
2. HIV epidemic growing, with the rate of new infections rising by between 10 and 15% each year.
3. has the highest divorce rate in the world.
4. more than half of the 18 to 24 year-old population would like to emigrate.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Joros for this post:
  #18  
Old 28.05.2020, 17:16
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,073
Groaned at 339 Times in 274 Posts
Thanked 23,078 Times in 8,350 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

Quote:
View Post
As a bottom line, Russia seems like a great place to test the theory of evolution, 21st century edition. Seriously, regardless of ideological bias - there must be something wrong with a country with:

1. the highest number of people who inject drugs in the region.
Yeah, why can’t they abuse prescription opioids like civilized people?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 28.05.2020, 17:20
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 1,087
Groaned at 164 Times in 111 Posts
Thanked 2,910 Times in 1,059 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: dilemma job in zurich vs moscow

Quote:
View Post
Taking into account the background of the author I would recommend Russia...
And yet, here you are, in Switzerland. Not very convincing is it?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at gaburko for this post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Moscow - psychology- astrology- Zurich VictorG Introductions 5 18.06.2016 08:04
From Moscow to Zurich Lanko Introductions 8 15.02.2012 19:39
13°C warmer in Moscow than in Zurich.... ticino Daily life 6 07.05.2010 16:38
From Moscow to Zurich, quite a change Aleydis Introductions 1 28.11.2007 23:13
Hello from Moscow! ksu Introductions 14 12.11.2007 15:46


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:30.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0