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Old 09.03.2020, 14:35
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Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

Hi


I lost my job, and was given the chance to resign. I had a good job possibility, which didnt work out, so I resigned as being sacked wasnt going to look good.



Will there be any chance of the RAV offering benefits given that there was no initial decision to quit and i was going anyway?


thanks
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Old 09.03.2020, 14:39
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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Hi


I lost my job, and was given the chance to resign. I had a good job possibility, which didnt work out, so I resigned as being sacked wasnt going to look good.



Will there be any chance of the RAV offering benefits given that there was no initial decision to quit and i was going anyway?


thanks

Resigning could lead to your unemployment payments being delayed as you are "to blame".

I think being let go has happened to a lot of people and is not a sign of incompetence. Have seen so many companies "reorganize".....
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Old 09.03.2020, 15:03
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

Don't take the "give you the option to resign" bait. You will be penalised on any compensation received from RAV.
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Old 09.03.2020, 15:05
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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Don't take the "give you the option to resign" bait. You will be penalised on any compensation received from RAV.
If it's in writing by email, possibly not.
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Old 09.03.2020, 15:10
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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Hi


I lost my job, and was given the chance to resign. I had a good job possibility, which didnt work out, so I resigned as being sacked wasnt going to look good.



Will there be any chance of the RAV offering benefits given that there was no initial decision to quit and i was going anyway?


thanks
I couldn't agree more with the PPs. The "chance to resign" means u resign from many social benefits u would have if u had been fired, and up to 3 month penalty without a salary from the RAV. Its the easy way out for them, in many ways.Do.NOT.resign.If they want u out they fire u.
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Old 09.03.2020, 15:28
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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Hi

I lost my job, and was given the chance to resign. I had a good job possibility, which didnt work out, so I resigned as being sacked wasnt going to look good.

Will there be any chance of the RAV offering benefits given that there was no initial decision to quit and i was going anyway?

thanks
It doesn't look bad to be fired if you were made redundant (ie: you and your role were no longer needed). It only looks/sounds bad if you were fired for bad performance or for breaching corporate rules/conduct/negligence and only then if people investigate enough to find that out.
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Old 09.03.2020, 17:21
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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If it's in writing by email, possibly not.
Yes, its in writing to me to decide. I informed rav immediately and said i was fired before i later told them i had decided to resign given the choice i had to help get another job.

Its too late now, but wondered if they know its a true case of firing, whether they still hide behind paperwork or not.
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Old 09.03.2020, 20:56
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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Its too late now, but wondered if they know its a true case of firing, whether they still hide behind paperwork or not.

How are they hiding behind the paperwork, you decided to resign and you signed up as having resigned. You will be held to the decision you made!
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Old 09.03.2020, 21:12
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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How are they hiding behind the paperwork, you decided to resign and you signed up as having resigned. You will be held to the decision you made!
If he shows that he has been told he would be fired if he did not resign, I believe they will accept he would not be in work any longer, so the additional cost to the fund is 0.
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Old 09.03.2020, 21:13
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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Its too late now, but wondered if they know its a true case of firing, whether they still hide behind paperwork or not.
Never sign anything related to your work unless you know the full implications of doing so. Never trust any employer to look after your best interests at the expense of their own unless you have a very good reason to.

This may be a tough lesson to learn, but in the end I am sure you won't make the same mistake twice.
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Old 09.03.2020, 21:24
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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If he shows that he has been told he would be fired if he did not resign, I believe they will accept he would not be in work any longer, so the additional cost to the fund is 0.

May be, but that is not the same as claiming they are hiding behind the paperwork.
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Old 09.03.2020, 21:42
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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Yes, its in writing to me to decide. I informed rav immediately and said i was fired before i later told them i had decided to resign given the choice i had to help get another job.

Its too late now, but wondered if they know its a true case of firing, whether they still hide behind paperwork or not.
How much time did they give you to decide? Did you think to ask a local lawyer? Were you singled out, or was this part of a wave across your department? Did you discuss the situation with the employer or HR given they triggered this?

I've be made redundant and resigned twice throughout my career (of 13 years, 3 countries). Change can be a great thing if managed well. However, when it comes to career, job, making money, these need to be well-thought out, deliberate decisions.

I hope you find a new opportunity that you find rewarding. Change can be difficult. And, now, someone has "moved your cheese".
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Old 09.03.2020, 21:46
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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May be, but that is not the same as claiming they are hiding behind the paperwork.

If the intention of the legislation is not to reward true resignations, then not paying would be an excuse since there was no real alternative.
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Old 09.03.2020, 22:38
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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If he shows that he has been told he would be fired if he did not resign, I believe they will accept he would not be in work any longer, so the additional cost to the fund is 0.
It is worth a try.
In his favour: He had a new job possiblity (which fell through), proving he immediately started to work on the problem.

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May be, but that is not the same as claiming they are hiding behind the paperwork.
Agreed. And totally wrong approaching attitude too. If they accept his arguments it will be good will. They absolutely do not have to (and they are an insurance, have and want to work by the book).
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Old 09.03.2020, 22:41
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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It is worth a try.
In his favour: He had a new job possiblity (which fell through), proving he immediately started to work on the problem.


Agreed. And totally wrong approaching attitude too. If they accept his arguments it will be good will. They absolutely do not have to (and they are an insurance, have and want to work by the book).
It is working by the book if he can prove he would have been fired had he not resigned, he has clearly not made him self voluntarily unemployed.
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Old 09.03.2020, 23:06
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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It is working by the book if he can prove he would have been fired had he not resigned, he has clearly not made him self voluntarily unemployed.
Nope. Woulds and coulds ifs and buts do not count in the end. Fact is: He resigned. When most people no longer fall for this, btw.

Still, as I said, it is definitely worth a try and I would take that road, if I were OP. He does have the advantage of having the threat in writing. He could plead for duress, which actually is a criminal offence here. Kind of a grey zone, decision entirely up to insurance in the end.

Or could lead to a precedent. It is about time this is taken up by the law as imo it is clearly duress.
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Old 09.03.2020, 23:34
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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Or could lead to a precedent. It is about time this is taken up by the law as imo it is clearly duress.
Precedents don't exist in codified law, each case is individual & treated as such.
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Old 10.03.2020, 00:20
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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Precedents don't exist in codified law, each case is individual & treated as such.
That may be so (I don't know and right now I'm too lazy to check) but you must admit, there is not much to individually look at once this "offer" is deemed duress.

On the other hand, I think I change my mind about this. As with my earlier arguing it would also be duress when an employee sais "if you don't (give me a better office, a higher salary .....) I'll quit or the husband sais (I did that on purpose ) if you don't stop betraying me I shall divorce you.
Loads of court cases, no more options offered to chose from, warnings to react to .....
Naaa, employees: Just chose wisely. In this case, do.not.resign.

Why waste energy on something that will fall in your lap anyway?
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Old 10.03.2020, 04:57
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

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If the intention of the legislation is not to reward true resignations, then not paying would be an excuse since there was no real alternative.
The RAV donít interpret the law, they will just follow the rules.
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Old 10.03.2020, 11:04
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Re: Fired, but taken option to resign, RAV

and for the OP:
RAV and Arbeitslosenkasse are there to provide you the minimum service required by law. Usually they are not your enemies but for sure they are not your friends. You have to learn by yourself what are your obligations and what are your rights.
I was there a year and a half ago and without reading all the info about unemployment on these forum and from some official sources, I would for sure went trough the process much worse.
I was all the time on civil and respectful term with everyone, but I have to extract some in formations with very careful interrogations from both, my RAV advisor and the Arbeitslosenkasse workers.
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