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Old 23.03.2020, 21:47
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

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So a builder with 2 broken legs goes to a job interview...

Do you think before writing or you are starting a joke?
Applying for jobs... going for interview. Not quite the same thing. And there's this amazing invention they've got for people with broken legs. Perhaps you've seen one, if you're lucky.

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Old 23.03.2020, 21:50
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

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Applying for jobs... going for interview. Not quite the same thing. And there's this amazing invention they've got for people with broken legs. Perhaps you've seen one, if you're lucky.

And the builder in a wheel chair will perform his job how exactly? By telepathy?
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  #23  
Old 23.03.2020, 21:57
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

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And the builder in a wheel chair will perform his job how exactly? By telepathy?
Doesn't want to be a builder any more - perhaps looking for a desk job? You really are a unimaginative soul aren't you. Maybe you should try to get out more... oh I'm sorry. A little tactless of me there.
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  #24  
Old 23.03.2020, 22:30
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

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Thank you. You've all really helped me. It's been a pretty dark hole as you can imagine and hard to find out answers. But hopefully the lawyer will give me the lowdown tomorrow.
Just something to think on and talk with your lawyer about Louise1982:
AFAIK, when you are on sick leave, your current employer / their insurer is paying you, with the aim that you get better and are able to return to work.

When you get a new job, assuming this is during your sick leave, you may still be obliged to go back to your current job to work through your notice period. I'm not sure on the legal footing on this one. Some employers may offer garden leave (especially if you are going to a competitor) or come to another agreement with you. But if not, and depending on your contract, you may need to go back to work and work through your notice.

That may not be a big deal, but if you have had difficulties with your current employer and have a relatively long notice period, then it's worth to think through the options and ask tomorrow what is possible under your contract.

Also please do think about your current employer's reference. There are policies in place to ensure that these are fairly written, but in my experience quite a few companies put some weight behind references, particularly from your last employer. It's always good to leave on a good footing if you can.

As said before, good luck! I applaud the proactiveness and hope you find a good solution and a job which you love soon.
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  #25  
Old 23.03.2020, 23:17
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

Of course you can look for a job, even when you already have one, even if you are not able to do it.

Tom
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Old 24.03.2020, 08:46
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

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Doesn't want to be a builder any more - perhaps looking for a desk job? You really are a unimaginative soul aren't you. Maybe you should try to get out more... oh I'm sorry. A little tactless of me there.
It all sounds reasonable until you really think about it. Here's your bulder on a desk job, counting laid bricks?

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  #27  
Old 24.03.2020, 08:55
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

OP - be careful where your head is at when you attend interviews.

Candidates who are stressed, burned out etc are giving off all kinds of signals that influence how they come across, or respond to interview questions.

Be especially ready to articulate why you're ready to move on to a new role, rather than escaping your current one.
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  #28  
Old 24.03.2020, 10:45
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

This organization provides legal advice.
https://dfa.ch/rechtsberatung.php

Otherwise contact your local regional RAV.

Good luck!
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  #29  
Old 11.04.2020, 09:18
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

Hi there,

Thanks so much for all of your comments and assistance on this matter.

For the sake of 'finishing' this thread and in case that another poor soul finds themselves in the same position as me, and are seeking the same info, I got in contact with a fantastic Swiss employment lawyer in Bern, who made the following very clear:

- during sick leave of this type you CAN look for another job, apply for another job and accept another job.

- there is a risk the current employer may try to not pay the notice period because you have been looking elsewhere, though given the motive for the sick leave in the first instance, this is unlikely, as it would appear end of the employment might be best for all parties and could easily be contested.

- the current employer cannot dismiss someone on sick leave of this type for looking for another job. They could try to, but this could result in legal percussions.

- you do not have to tell other potential employers that you are currently signed off sick.

I hope this helps others as it has helped me.

Thanks again for all that gave me assistance and some confidence. It has been a DARK time, but I can now see the light.
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  #30  
Old 11.04.2020, 09:24
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

Uo and up and up now
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  #31  
Old 11.04.2020, 18:28
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

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- during sick leave of this type you CAN look for another job, apply for another job and accept another job.
Is that because the stress (the reason for your inability to work) was caused by the job? And that, therefore, a different reason may indeed keep you from lawfully looking for another job?
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  #32  
Old 11.04.2020, 22:26
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

OP, I'd like to add something from an insurance perspective. I do this as encouragement to you to find out what your exact situation is, and as a kind of warning to be careful to keep your insurance cover intact.

To be clear: I hear you and admire that you are motivated and determined to get back on your feet again, and work. And may you succeed in that!
The following thoughts are about “just in case” things don’t go well (which is, after all, what insurance is for).

Now you are written off ill. You attribute the illness to the environment at Employer A. You hope that if you get a new job, things will be better there and you will no longer be ill. Let’s hope you are right. Even so, it is worth considering what will happen if - contrary to your hope - you remain ill for a longer time.

Here follow several posts, separated by topic.

I wish you well, and may you live happily, get a good job, recover completely, and never actually need the following information.
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  #33  
Old 11.04.2020, 22:27
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

Staying at Employer A
While you are with yet with Employer A, you are insured there. Your doctor's certificate means that you will continue to receive your salary, in full at first, and if your illness continues, then later perhaps at a reduced percentage. This will most likely be a factor of your years of service with the company. Sometimes this will be specified in your employment contract, and sometimes in rules of your company. If it is not specified, then a standard scale (in German: “Skala”, will apply).

If you stay at Employer A, and don’t recover, at some point these continued payments of your salary (in German: “Lohnfortzahlung bei Krankheit”, or sick pay) will run out. At first, being ill, you are protected against being given notice from your employer. However, at some later point, even though you are ill, your employer will be allowed to terminate your employment contract.

You owe it to yourself to find out:
  • How long will your salary payment continue during illness?
  • What percentage of your salary will you receive, and are there decreasing steps?
  • How long can your sick-leave last, i.e. at what point is the employer allowed to terminate the contract?
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  #34  
Old 11.04.2020, 22:28
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

Moving to Employer B
It you find a new job, your insurances will also transfer from Employer A to Employer B. The conditions of Employer B's pension plan may be better, the same, or worse than those of Employer A. The older you are, the more important it is to understand the effects of the differences, for you, an old-age pension, plus pensions for your dependents, if any. The more ill you are, the more important to understand the effects for a disability pension, in case you ever need one.

You owe it to yourself to find out:
  • What does the Pension Plan of Employer A provide, with regard to disability and old-age penions?
  • What does the Pension Plan of Employer A provide, with regard to disability and old-age penions?

At Employer B, you will have a probationary period. This is typically 1 or 2 or 3 months, during which the notice period, by either party, is 7 days. Read your new contract carefully. If this is not specified, ask whether an overriding general contract, or a law, defines this. Once you have worked to their satisfaction for the probationary period, you’re in the clear, and safe.

If, however, you become ill during the probation period, you may be without income. If you are ill more than just briefly, you may be dismissed. Or you may not like it at Employer B, and may resign. If you get to any of these points, your insurances become critical.

You owe it to yourself to find out:
  • How long is probation period, and how long is the notice period during probation?
  • If you are ill during probation, will you still be paid, and if so, to what extent?
  • What is the current and likely future financial stability of Employer B? This, especially in the light of the instabilities and losses caused by the Corona-crisis.

Last edited by doropfiz; 11.04.2020 at 22:56.
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  #35  
Old 11.04.2020, 22:29
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

Being Unemployed
You become unemployed if you resign from, or are dismissed from Employer A or Employer B.

If you are well enough to work, and if you have already contributed to the Swiss Unemployment Scheme for the requisite minimum duration, then you can apply for Unemployment Benefits. There’s always a short waiting period at the start, which will be longer if you resigned.

Those benefits, however, are conditional upon your being willing and able to work, (so called “vermittelbar”, in German, meaning can be placed or recommended for a job). If you are ill, you cannot receive Unemployment Benefits. The route is then through the Disability Insurance.

You owe it to yourself to find out:
  • Have you contributed enough to the Swiss Unemployment Insurance fund, to be eligible for Unemployment Benefits?
  • If yes, how long is the waiting period, if you are given notice?
  • How long is the waiting period, if you resigned?
  • What percentage of your previous earnings, will you be paid, and if so, for how long?
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Old 11.04.2020, 22:30
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

Applying for a Disability Pension
If you are too ill to work, after a waiting period you will become eligible to register with the Disability Insurance (in German: “Invalidenversicherung” also known as IV, pronounced in German ee-fow). Their first mandate is to try to help an applicant to reintegrate into the employment market, and only if this fails do they move to their second mandate of assessing whether or not the applicant will be awarded a Disability Pension.

The extent to which the process of reintegration can succeed depends upon your personal qualifications and state of your physical and mental health, your motivation, and the degree to which the officers at the IV, to whom you are assigned, take the trouble to work with you. They are supposed to (and sometimes do and sometimes don’t) provide you with some sort of job coaching to deal with whatever now stresses you, and learn methods to cope with it should it occur again, and to walk alongside you during your first months as you try out a new job, and to intervene if problems arise. As I say, sometimes this process works, at other times not, because it depends upon not only you and the IV, but also the new employer and colleagues.

If the reintegration process fails, you then move on to being assessed for a Disability Pension. You may be awarded a Swiss State Disability Pension (this is called “first pillar). If you have an employer from the time when you became ill, your employer’s pension plan (this is called “second pillar”) will also pay you a Disability Pension. Together, these will usually be enough to live on, albeit at a considerably reduced standard of living.

If you have no employer, you have no Pension Plan, so you cannot also receive that “second pillar” Disability Pension. The “first pillar” State Disability Pension is not enough to live on. The municipalities provide top up benefits (called, in German “Ergänzungsleistungen”).

The process in the Disability Insurance can be lengthy. During that time you will support yourself with your savings and, when they run out, can apply for State Social Security. If your application for a Disability Pension is declined, you can stay with the State Social Security. It keeps a modest roof over your head, pays your medical insurance, and gives you a minimal allowance to buy food (and everything else).

If the Disability Pension is awarded, it will be paid retrospectively back to the date of application.
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  #37  
Old 11.04.2020, 22:40
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

Your physical and psychological health

I highly recommend talking this through with more than one professional (doctor, psychologist, psychiatrist, health organisations, etc.) to help you assess whether you are suffering the consequences of stress, and that as soon as the stress goes away you're likely to bounce back and feel fine again (perhaps over some weeks of recovery), or whether they deem you to be in need of medium- or longer-term rest and/or treatment.

I say this because it is a natural, perfectly understandable reaction to a stressful environment to feel: "Just Get Me Out Of Here!" In the best case, that's all it takes to enable one to gradually restore one's equilibrium and to move on and leave that unhappy phase behind one.

If, on the other hand, there's something more serious going on, and the work situation is not so must the sole cause, as more the catalyst causing other issues within you to rise to the surface, then the solution will lie elsewhere, namely on work in yourself, rather than just swapping environments.

Naturally, as I don't know you at all, I cannot know whether this is the former, the latter, or some combination of both. I'd just like to encourage you to try to work that out for yourself, ideally with feedback from more than one professional (and perhaps a strong, honest friend), so that you know what you're doing and what kind of work (recovery is work, too) might be needed, as clearly as is possible, before you resign from your current employer.

Once again:
Well done for being motivated and determined to get back on your feet again, and work. I wish you well, and may you live happily, get a good job, recover completely, and never actually need the above information.
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  #38  
Old 01.10.2020, 00:05
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

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Thank you. You've all really helped me. It's been a pretty dark hole as you can imagine and hard to find out answers. But hopefully the lawyer will give me the lowdown tomorrow.
Hello
How are you doing in the meantime?
Care to share with us what your lawyer said? That could help others in similar situation.
Thank you
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  #39  
Old 01.10.2020, 00:18
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

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Hello
How are you doing in the meantime?
Care to share with us what your lawyer said? That could help others in similar situation.
Thank you
They already did!
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Old 01.10.2020, 00:54
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Re: Signed off sick for stress, can I legally look for new job?

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They already did!
LOL, somehow I didn't see this last page. Thanks for the reply!
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