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Old 25.03.2020, 12:57
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Work time reduction under Corona

My wife has been told by her boss that she is being reduced to 20% work time instead of the 100% he currently works because of the current situation.

apparently the remaining 80% of her salary will be paid by the government but is that so? Is the money going to come directly from the government or is the company going to pay her her full salary and then ask money back to the government?

HR is going to send her a document to sign and accept this work reduction but we are wondering what it means to accept this and what would be the issue if she refuses?

Any advice is welcome.

Thanks!
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Old 26.03.2020, 15:41
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

Welcome to the Forum.

I think the government pays 80% of whatever the short work is, not the entire rest of the salary. What happens if she doesn't take the short work, is she fired?

Some math that might be helpful:

Let's say she at 100% she makes 10,000 CHF per month (what we jokingly call the EF minimum salary)
Working 20% she will get 2,000 CHF from the employer

The remaining 80% of the job is 8,000 CHF
The Swiss government will pay 80% of that amount, so 6,400 CHF

In other words, she'll work 20% but get paid for 84%.

(Edit - per curley's post below, the company will be paying the employee, not the government)

If she quits or is fired, she has to start hunting for jobs. RAV pays 70% if you don't have children and 80% if you do.

As best I can tell she comes out ahead taking the short work.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 26.03.2020 at 17:22. Reason: thanks for clarifying, curley :)
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Old 26.03.2020, 15:54
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

The employer keeps paying the salary. The government pays to the employer. The other day I heard somewhere that the employer still has to pay their part of the social costs (AHV, IV etc. ). So there is still a load on them they can't bring in at the moment.
It would not make sense if the government would pay each person directly, logistically that would be impossible.
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Old 26.03.2020, 16:01
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

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what would be the issue if she refuses?
She can always be given notice.

Tom
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Old 26.03.2020, 16:02
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Kurzarbet (Short-time Work) and C Permit/Naturalisation Application

Hi,

Because of the current situation, my OH's company has offered them to do short-term work (Kurzarbeit) for some time (See https://www.ch.ch/en/short-time-work/).

We were wondering what are the downsides of such a setup to us? Most importantly, will it affect our C Permit application (in a few months) or naturalisation (hopefully in the future)? Is there anything they, the employee, should be worried about before signing the agreement? (apart from some reduced salary of course)

Assuming we don't have an "immediate" need for their salary, are there better options we can propose?

Many thanks
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Old 26.03.2020, 16:14
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

Hi,
I had created another thread for a similar question which I think is being removed or merged. So I repeat it here. Many thanks for your advice on this aspect:

We were wondering what are the downsides of such a setup to us? Most importantly, will it affect our C Permit application (in a few months) or naturalisation (hopefully in the future)? Is there anything they, the employee, should be worried about before signing the agreement? (apart from some reduced salary of course)

Assuming we don't have an "immediate" need for their salary, are there better options we can propose?
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Old 26.03.2020, 16:21
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

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Hi,
I had created another thread for a similar question which I think is being removed or merged. So I repeat it here. Many thanks for your advice on this aspect:

We were wondering what are the downsides of such a setup to us? Most importantly, will it affect our C Permit application (in a few months) or naturalisation (hopefully in the future)? Is there anything they, the employee, should be worried about before signing the agreement? (apart from some reduced salary of course)

Assuming we don't have an "immediate" need for their salary, are there better options we can propose?
Kurzarbeit is not a negative thing on the employees reputation.

Also Kurzarbeit is meant to keep people's jobs in difficult times (and there have to be good reasons and a good chance, it's a passing situation for a compnay to actually get the ok).

Not signing would be .... rather silly?
The alternative would be getting sacked. If they offer someone Kurzarbeit, they are planning to keep the employee if they financially can.
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Old 26.03.2020, 16:30
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

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Kurzarbeit is not a negative thing on the employees reputation.

Also Kurzarbeit is meant to keep people's jobs in difficult times (and there have to be good reasons and a good chance, it's a passing situation for a compnay to actually get the ok).

Not signing would be .... rather silly?
The alternative would be getting sacked. If they offer someone Kurzarbeit, they are planning to keep the employee if they financially can.
Many thanks. There is another point I don't get. Assume for example a 50% short-time work agreement. What is the employee supposed to do in the other 50% of their time? Rest? They are paid (combined) more than 50% (90 in this case) of their salary :-/
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Old 26.03.2020, 16:40
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

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Many thanks. There is another point I don't get. Assume for example a 50% short-time work agreement. What is the employee supposed to do in the other 50% of their time? Rest? They are paid (combined) more than 50% (90 in this case) of their salary :-/
You are being paid to do nothing. From first of april I´ll be on 90% Kurzarbeit, that means I am expected to do at least16 hours a month, I will have to keep a time sheet and if I do more than the 16 it will be deducted from the Kurzarbeitergeld, however if i do too many hours then the government will assume that the company is not on Kurzarbeit and refuse to pay.
Here in Germany your company has to have a minimum of three months and a maximum of 6 months on Kurzarbeit, if longer then your company will be liquidated.
Also to be eligible for 100% pay I wil have to sacrifice three days a month vacation.
Sucks, but better than nothing.
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Old 26.03.2020, 16:45
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

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Many thanks. There is another point I don't get. Assume for example a 50% short-time work agreement. What is the employee supposed to do in the other 50% of their time? Rest? They are paid (combined) more than 50% (90 in this case) of their salary :-/
Enjoy the time, definitely not to sit around and be depressed. See the positive side of it: You still got a job. Company and government believe it's worth keeping you around.
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Old 26.03.2020, 18:37
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

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I will have to keep a time sheet and if I do more than the 16 it will be deducted from the Kurzarbeitergeld, however if i do too many hours then the government will assume that the company is not on Kurzarbeit and refuse to pay.
Yes, my employer told me to do the same, albeit not more than 50%.

Went to the office thrice in the pas t week to collect stuff, and now have a VPN up and running.

VNC is not running on the machine I need, however, so may have to head down again.

Tom
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Old 26.03.2020, 20:44
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

A few extra inputs.

In the Suisse Romande, it's called Chomage Technique, or réduction d'horaire de travail (RHT) with the Geneva link here https://www.ge.ch/reduction-horaire-travail-rht

An employer can use this for a minimum of 10%, and upto 100% of the employee's activity rate. It's for between 3 and max of 12 months. Usually its for 3 months at a time.

It should be applied evenly across teams, where there's been a reduction in work and should include the team manager.

The rules have been relaxed to allow it to apply to temporary staff (where it's related to the coronavirus).

The salary cap of CHF 148,200 still applies.

Even though the employer will receive the indemnity of 80% of the reduction in activity rate, nothing stops them from topping up to 100%.

The employee needs to agree. In a small enterprise, it would be wise not to refuse. An employee should not be threatened with, or terminated for refusing to agree.

It does not prevent someone from being terminated during the period it is being paid, however it's purpose is to prevent the need for someone's employment to be terminated. If the termination is really necessary, it should take place on their return.

It does not affect the right of someone to later apply for chomage, if their employment is later terminated.

AVS continues to be calculated on 100% of the salary that is subject to AVS.

I am not a lawyer, I'm one of them HR drones trying to protect the jobs of 900 staff. So far all legal advice I've been taking throughout this situation, loses value faster than a Zimbabwean dollar.

P.S. Folks with a Carte de Legitimation cannot participate.

Last edited by HIAO; 26.03.2020 at 20:55.
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Old 26.03.2020, 20:54
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

400,000 companies have applied for this. Your wife is far from alone.

I have 2 jobs, both zero hours contracts, both companies have applied for Kurzarbeit as they have both had to close. I'm praying it comes through.... need the cash!!
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Old 26.03.2020, 21:08
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

Yep, been signing documents for 'chomage technique' today for staff - very sad- and it will certainly not go against them in any way, shape or form (as a Trustee for 2 local Museums now closed due to Covid19).

Last edited by Odile; 26.03.2020 at 21:34.
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Old 28.03.2020, 08:24
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

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400,000 companies have applied for this. Your wife is far from alone.

I have 2 jobs, both zero hours contracts, both companies have applied for Kurzarbeit as they have both had to close. I'm praying it comes through.... need the cash!!
Mine is the same (a job with 0 hours contract, for about 10 months?). You mean I am entitled to the government help? By the way, Before the corona crisis, I was warned against losing my job. Can my employer use this chance to fire me? So far, I am informed the company has no work at all, because it works with tourists.
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Old 28.03.2020, 08:46
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

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Mine is the same (a job with 0 hours contract, for about 10 months?). You mean I am entitled to the government help? By the way, Before the corona crisis, I was warned against losing my job. Can my employer use this chance to fire me? So far, I am informed the company has no work at all, because it works with tourists.

The most recent information I have found on "on-call" employees impacted by the Wuhan virus is discussed at post 21 at this link:

https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...ml#post3162810
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Old 28.03.2020, 09:21
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

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Before the corona crisis, I was warned against losing my job. Can my employer use this chance to fire me?
They can fire you at any time, for any reason.

Tom
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Old 28.03.2020, 11:07
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

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Mine is the same (a job with 0 hours contract, for about 10 months?). You mean I am entitled to the government help? By the way, Before the corona crisis, I was warned against losing my job. Can my employer use this chance to fire me? So far, I am informed the company has no work at all, because it works with tourists.
Your company can apply for Kurzarbeit, then you should get 80% pay. Or you can get them to fire you and then you can apply for RAV (assuming you're eligible).
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Old 30.03.2020, 16:45
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

Loans for small businesses

This is the website for small and medium businesses which need to apply for government-guaranteed credit, to give them the necessary liquidity to prevent going down. Sole traders may also make use of this. This is a cooperative system developed by government departments and banks.

https://covid19.easygov.swiss/ (in German, French, Italian)
One can no longer simply download the pdfs. It is now a guided process. The aim is to prevent administrative overload and increase efficiency, so that applications which are incomplete are stopped until all the correct documentation is brought.

There is also an easygov hotline at https://helpcenter.easygov.swiss/hc/de (in German, French, Italian) with some AI, so not just FAQs.

About one-third of the funds designated, by the Federal Council, to this end, have already been allocated.

It is, however, still the case that this is open only to some categories of sole traders, and not to those whose income is diminished indirectly. A "direct" influence is, say, a hairdresser, as she has been ordered, by law, to keep her salon shut. An "indirect" influence is, say, a cleaner, whose clients are asking her not to come in, or an IT contractor whose clients have frozen their project budgets until there is some clarity about Corona. The Federal Council is aware of the gaps, and is discussing possibilities to assist those who are suffering such losses, too.

Last edited by doropfiz; 30.03.2020 at 18:09.
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Old 30.03.2020, 17:37
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Re: Work time reduction under Corona

Thanks all for your very eye-opening insights.

My wife finally got fired this morning just one week after being sent the 20% kurzarbeit statement (which she didn't refuse).

It makes me wonder why they would put her on Kurzarbeit if they plan to fire her anyways. Does that mean that they are taking advantage of the situation to only pay her 20% for the 3 months notice?

Will she only get the 80% of the 80% remaining salary during this period?

The negative snowball of all this is that we needed to fire our Nanny in the process which is really sad because us and our kids really liked her. But if we are going to have an income loss, we won't be able to afford her and it gives her the opportunity to apply to the RAF as well.

Overall the whole situation sucks big time.
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