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Old 30.03.2020, 20:34
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Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

I've been left in a pretty bad situation. I had a new contract, on a stundenlohn basis, due to start mid/late March, and was going to have 30-40 hours a week on average. The snag - the contract states it is 'auf Abruf' and so I am one of the ones who won't be entitled to any Kurzarbeit money. I've been in touch with the employer who said they are investigating the options to pay wages through the kanton/insurance, but they have nothing concrete confirmed to us staff as of yet.

I can't fall back on Rav now, due to not having a full 12 months of work in past 2 years.

If I apply for sozialhilfe, and I really do not want to have to do that, what can I expect from them? My husband was fired from his job after he didn't go in due to being in the high risk group, which they were heartless about, and he has just 2 months of Rav money left to collect.

I appreciate any advice. Very little savings, will run out completely in 2-3 months.
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  #2  
Old 30.03.2020, 20:47
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

Kurzarbeit has been extended to zero hours and short term contracts. Your employer just has to apply for you!

I have 2 on call contracts with different employers. One has already had Kurzarbeit approved for us, the other has applied but still waiting to hear back.
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Old 30.03.2020, 20:54
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

Are you sure? There is an exception for 'auf Abruf' though from what I found out.
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Old 30.03.2020, 20:57
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

Can you take a look at this?
https://www.arbeit.swiss/secoalv/de/...rzarbeit.html/
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Old 30.03.2020, 20:58
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

Yep! Almost all the staff working in our company are on seasonal on call contracts. And it’s been approved. They don’t know yet how they will calculate how much we get, but we are going to get something!
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Old 30.03.2020, 21:03
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

The information I can find indicates that employers of "on call" employees cannot claim for Kurzarbeit at this time unless the fluctuation in hours is less than 20%. See this translation of the below link (but also see the discussion at the bottom):

"Not entitled to short-time work compensation (KAE):
  • The managing director, members of management and members of the highest operational decision-making body. As a rule, these include the individual authorised signatories and those who have a significant financial stake in a company.
  • Employees of retirement age (from the following month in which the AHV retirement age is reached)
  • Employees in a terminated employment relationship, regardless of which party has given notice and only during the period of the contractually agreed notice period. In the event of early termination, the employee is therefore still entitled to the benefits until the beginning of the notice period. In the absence of a contractual period of notice, the statutory period of notice applies.
  • In an on-call employment relationship, if the workload fluctuates by more than 20% on average
  • Do not suffer a determinable loss of working time or whose working time is not sufficiently controllable, for example because they are not subject to working time control.
  • Employees on call
  • Employees who have not agreed to short-time working. These must be paid in accordance with their employment contract.
https://vpod.ch/brennpunkte/coronavirus/kurzarbeit/

While noting the above, the NZZ wrote on 23 March (translated).

"On Monday, a federal representative confirmed upon request that short-time work compensation is not currently planned for on-call employees who have had a recent strongly fluctuating degree of employment hours. The stated reason: in such cases, the authorities simply could not assess whether a strong decline in the level of employment was due to "natural" fluctuations or to "genuine" short-time work. However, according to the respondent, the federal government is currently considering a solution for such cases on the basis of a lump-sum (pauschal) compensation payment."

https://www.nzz.ch/wirtschaft/angest...sst-ld.1547985
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Old 30.03.2020, 21:04
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

Kurzarbeitsentschädigung
Achtung
Wegen des Coronavirus und seiner Folgen hat der Bundesrat ausserordentliche Massnahmen getroffen, die u. a. auch die Kurzarbeitsentschädigung der Arbeitslosenversicherung betreffen. Allgemeine Informationen sind auf der Webseite Neues Coronavirus des SECO zu finden.

SECO-Infoline für Unternehmen:

Tel: +41 58 462 00 66 - Montag bis Freitag von 07:00 Uhr bis 20:00 Uhr

Kontaktformular «Neues Coronavirus»
E-Mail: coronavirus@seco.admin.ch

Helfen Sie mit, dass wir Ihre Fragen und Gesuche schneller bearbeiten können: Informieren Sie sich soweit wie möglich zuerst via arbeit.swiss und die verlinkten Webseiten!

Weitere Informationen: Seite Coronavirus/Pandemie auf arbeit.swiss

Die Arbeitslosenversicherung (ALV) sichert mit der Kurzarbeitsentschädigung (KAE) die Löhne – dabei haben Arbeitgeber folgendes zu beachten (für Details siehe FAQ unten):

Die Auszahlung der KAE für einen Monat erfolgt jeweils im darauf folgenden Monat.
Die Unternehmen, die Kurzarbeit beantragt haben, müssen ihren Arbeitnehmenden 80% des Verdienstausfalls ordentlich und fristgerecht als Lohn auszahlen.
Die Unternehmen haben die vollen Sozialversicherungsbeiträge auf dem 100%-Lohn zu entrichten; Arbeitgeberanteile werden für die Ausfallzeiten via KAE rückvergütet.
Sofern nichts anderes mit den Arbeitnehmenden vereinbart, sind die Unternehmen berechtigt, die Beitragsanteile der Arbeitnehmenden auf Basis des 100%-Lohns abzuziehen.
Die kantonalen Vollzugsstellen tun ihr Möglichstes, um die Auszahlungen rasch zu tätigen, damit die Arbeitgeber die Löhne bezahlen können. Aufgrund der hohen Zahl von Gesuchen für KAE kann es jedoch zu Beginn bei den Auszahlungen zu gewissen Verzögerungen kommen.

Zweck der Kurzarbeitsentschädigung
Die Arbeitslosenversicherung (ALV) deckt den von Kurzarbeit betroffenen Arbeitgebern über einen gewissen Zeitraum einen Teil der Lohnkosten. Damit soll verhindert werden, dass infolge kurzfristiger und unvermeidbarer Arbeitsausfälle Kündigungen ausgesprochen werden.

Im Gegensatz zur Arbeitslosenentschädigung werden die Leistungen an den Arbeitgeber ausgerichtet. Jeder Arbeitnehmende hat jedoch das Recht, die Kurzarbeitsentschädigung abzulehnen. Der Arbeitgeber muss diesen Arbeitnehmenden weiterhin den vollen Lohn auszahlen. Für die Arbeitnehmenden besteht dann jedoch ein erhöhtes Risiko, die Kündigung zu erhalten.

Antrag auf Kurzarbeit: Voranmeldung und Zustimmung
Die Geltendmachung von Kurzarbeit muss durch den Arbeitgeber erfolgen. Dieser muss bei der zuständigen Kantonalen Amtsstelle (KAST) eine Voranmeldung (XLS, 69 kB, 30.03.2020) einreichen. Die Kurzarbeit kann auch telefonisch vorangemeldet werden. Der Arbeitgeber muss die telefonische Voranmeldung unverzüglich schriftlich bestätigen. Die Arbeitnehmenden müssen damit einverstanden sein, dass sie in Kurzarbeit geschickt werden. Dies hat der Arbeitgeber vorher abzuklären und in der Voranmeldung schriftlich zu bestätigen.

Zuständig für die Bearbeitung der Voranmeldung ist die KAST jenes Kantons, in dem sich der Sitz des Betriebs befindet. Diese wird zudem allfällige Fragen bezüglich Anspruch auf Kurzarbeitsentschädigung beantworten.
Links Kantone/Partner

Mit der Voranmeldung wird auch die zuständige Kasse gewählt. Sofern das kantonale Arbeitsamt die Kurzarbeit bewilligt, muss der Arbeitgeber die weiteren Geltendmachungen bei der gewählten Kasse einreichen. Die Kasse überprüft die Anspruchsvoraussetzungen im Detail und vergütet bei positivem Bescheid anschliessend die Kurzarbeitsentschädigung.

Formulare
H
Quote:
ier finden Sie sämtliche Formulare im Zusammenhang mit der Kurzarbeitsentschädigung:
Formulare für Kurzarbeitsentschädigung

Administrative Erleichterungen und weitere Massnahmen
Um Arbeitgebende, die wegen des neuen Coronavirus in Schwierigkeiten geraten, schnell und unkompliziert zu unterstützen, hat das SECO den administrativen Aufwand für die Meldung von Kurzarbeit im Zusammenhang mit dem Coronavirus vereinfacht. Zudem hat der Bund weitere Massnahmen getroffen, um Betroffene effektiv zu unterstützen. Neu ist insbesondere:

Die Frist zur Voranmeldung ist aufgehoben. Die Voranmeldung ist jedoch nach wie vor bei der zuständigen kantonalen Amtsstelle einzureichen. Die Kurzarbeit kann auch telefonisch vorangemeldet werden. Der Arbeitgeber muss die telefonische Voranmeldung unverzüglich schriftlich bestätigen.
Die Bewilligungsdauer von Kurzarbeit ist von 3 auf 6 Monate verlängert. Damit kann die Anzahl der Gesuche reduziert und somit das Bewilligungsverfahren beschleunigt werden.
Die Begründung für Kurzarbeit kann in der Voranmeldung kürzer gehalten werden, solange sie glaubhaft ist.
Die Abrechnung der KAE wird vereinfacht (nur ein Formular, nur fünf Angaben notwendig); so können auch Vorschüsse auf KAE vereinfacht und schneller ausbezahlt werden.
Die Karenzfrist für den Bezug von KAE ist aufgehoben (Unternehmen tragen keinen Selbstbehalt mehr).
Der Anspruch auf Kurzarbeitsentschädigung wird auf Personen in befristeten Arbeitsverhältnissen, in Lehrverhältnissen oder im Dienste einer Organisation für Temporärarbeit ausgedehnt.
Der Anspruch auf Kurzarbeit wird auch auf Personen ausgeweitet, die sich in einer arbeitgeberähnlichen Stellung befinden oder im Betrieb des Ehegatten bzw. des eingetragenen Partners mitarbeiten.
Der Anspruch auf Kurzarbeit ist auch auf Personen ausgeweitet, die als besonders gefährdet gelten und insbesondere folgende Erkrankungen aufweisen: Bluthochdruck, Diabetes, Herz-Kreislauf-Erkrankungen, chronische Atemwegserkrankungen, Krebs sowie Erkrankungen, die das Immunsystem schwächen.
Bestehende Überzeiten müssen nicht mehr vor dem Bezug der KAE abgebaut werden.
Die Verordnung bezüglich Kurzarbeitsentschädigung für arbeitgeberähnliche Angestellte ist entsprechend dem Willen des Bundesrats angepasst. Diese erhalten eine Pauschale von 3'320 Franken, die keine Kürzung erfährt.
Wer ist versichert bzw. anspruchsberechtigt?
Einen Anspruch kann der Arbeitgeber für jene Arbeitnehmenden geltend machen, welche die obligatorische Schule abgeschlossen und das AHV-Rentenalter noch nicht erreicht haben. Zudem müssen die Arbeitnehmenden in einem ungekündigten Anstellungsverhältnis stehen.

Nicht anspruchsberechtigt sind Arbeitnehmende, …

die in einem gekündigten Arbeitsverhältnis stehen;
die mit der Kurzarbeit nicht einverstanden sind;
deren Arbeitszeit nicht ausreichend kontrollierbar ist (z. B. Arbeitsverhältnis auf Abruf).
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Old 30.03.2020, 21:05
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

Can't find edit button - sorry.
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Old 30.03.2020, 21:13
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

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Can't find edit button - sorry.
You get it after 10 posts, I believe.
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Old 30.03.2020, 21:19
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

The form that employers must use to apply for this specifically excludes on-call employees. Now if you would have a history with the company and done like 32 hours on average over the last years I'd be hopeful that something could be worked out, but since you never worked a single hour on this job and are on call there is no obligation or ruling which you can use to claim any money.
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Old 30.03.2020, 21:36
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

Quote:
The form that employers must use to apply for this specifically excludes on-call employees. Now if you would have a history with the company and done like 32 hours on average over the last years I'd be hopeful that something could be worked out, but since you never worked a single hour on this job and are on call there is no obligation or ruling which you can use to claim any money.
Damn it. I can't believe this. Couldn't really have much worse luck than this situation right now. From what I read here and elsewhere it doesn't sound like Sozialhilfe pays for your rent, I guess that makes sense, so we will be in one of those social housing places? Or I get rid of my high risk husband for a few months, and get another job if that's even possible in a short timeframe?

As far as I know, there are no bans on evicting people now either.

I'm pretty much f*ucked.
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Old 30.03.2020, 21:43
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

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If I apply for sozialhilfe, and I really do not want to have to do that, what can I expect from them? My husband was fired from his job after he didn't go in due to being in the high risk group, which they were heartless about, and he has just 2 months of Rav money left to collect.
Just to add to this one here: while I normally don't propose to anyone to try to start legal proceedings of sorts in this country, the above might be an exception. I would consult a lawyer just in case. Not that he'd get the job back (plus he probably wouldn't want it), but who knows, maybe there's some compensation in this. That's of course assuming he's indeed high-risk, this can be proven by a doctor and he did tell his employer that he was high-risk and was therefore not coming in (rather than just not showing up)
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Old 30.03.2020, 21:45
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

Was your husband on the same type of Ab Aufruf contract that you had/have?

if NOT, then his employer has to pay him/her. It is clearly written at https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...tml#-578788515

that the employer has to pay the full salary for those unable to work due to underlying conditions. If that has not happened then you have a right to demand his salary during the time he cannot work due to CoVid-19.
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Old 30.03.2020, 21:52
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

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The information I can find indicates that employers of "on call" employees cannot claim for Kurzarbeit at this time unless the fluctuation in hours is less than 20%. See this translation of the below link (but also see the discussion at the bottom):

<snip>
Good old @Mulhollander. He was incredibly helpful to me when I need a RAV translator. My only complaint was that he didn't charge me enough for going out of his way to assist. If anyone needs help, especially with German language issues, he's your man (but please pay him properly for his time - he's not a charity!).

While I'm at it, @fatmanfilms was also very helpful, and agreed to a long phone chat with me to answer some of my dumb questions. I'm indebted to both.
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Old 30.03.2020, 22:03
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

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Was your husband on the same type of Ab Aufruf contract that you had/have?

if NOT, then his employer has to pay him/her. It is clearly written at https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...tml#-578788515

That the employer has to pay the full salary for those unable to work due to underlying conditions. If that has not happened then you have a right to demand his salary during the time he cannot work due to CoVid-19.
Depends on his reason why he is absent, they specified who belongs to high risk groups: https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...-menschen.html

And here a bit more on how this works: https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home...tml#1360651549

Also important is of this ruling was already in place before he got fired.
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Old 30.03.2020, 22:41
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

He was in his Probezeit and when they fired him they made up an excuse about him being impolite.
There is no help to be had here, seems I will have to roll with the punches this time, can't do much to fight back when it's not safe to go to a job.
Bad timing, but it's my own fault for taking a job auf Abruf - even if they said it was full time, I should have been more prudent.
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Old 30.03.2020, 22:43
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

If your husband was only recently fired, how come he only has 2 months RAV payments left?
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Old 30.03.2020, 22:48
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

And no he had a permanent contract, but during probezeit they can fire you without giving a reason. My husband's case is a lost case.
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Old 30.03.2020, 22:49
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

IslandMonkey - because he was on RAV before he got that job.
It's not unlimited payments as in other countries.
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Old 30.03.2020, 22:50
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Re: Stundenlohn contract 'auf Abruf'

Ah right.

Have you thought about looking for temporary work in sectors that are super busy right now? Deliveries of food etc?
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