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  #21  
Old 16.04.2020, 12:27
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Re: CoVid related: voluntary salary reduction

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Possibly, they want people to work full time, but just not pay as much. Short hours doesn't allow this.
That's generally covered by the concept of variable bonuses, in bad times.

Making people work full-time while paying less doesn't seem to be related to the CoVid situation but seems more like mis-using the situation to me - unless the company has some kind of really special situation.
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Old 17.04.2020, 20:35
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Salary cut due to Covid Situation

I work with a global IT company. Recently all middle/ senior managers got letters from HR saying our salaries will be reduced by 30%. The reason cited is a financial loss due to Covid 19 situation. But in reality, the company is using the Covid excuse to hide their mismanagement in the last year. The company is getting the same billing from their client for the work done by me. With this deduction, my salary is less than other junior colleagues who have half of my experience/ skills. (For the junior employees the salary cut is not applicable). The letter does not mention till when the salary cut is applicable.

I feel this is not fair as it will result in a major personal cashflow issue.
My questions are as below,
1. Is it legal to reduce salary in Switzerland? I understand that Swiss kanton has permitted our work permit considering the salary declared by the employer. Employer shows us as special skills and justifies it with salary. How employer can mandate to reduce salary without informing kanton/ immigration/ labour court?
2. If illegal, whom we should approach for help?
3. What will be the cost to get the help?
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  #23  
Old 17.04.2020, 20:56
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Re: Salary cut due to Covid Situation

Illegal/legal gets decided on how they do it, so what procedure do they follow?
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Old 17.04.2020, 21:03
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Re: Salary cut due to Covid Situation

HR has sent an email. It is mentioned as a variation in employment conditions due to the global crisis. It is not voluntary but asked to sign and submit it back.
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Old 17.04.2020, 22:41
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Re: Salary cut due to Covid Situation

Whether it's legal or not, sorry to hear that, it sounds awful

And also, doesn't matter whether it's legal or not, now might be a good time to look for something new.
Bearing in mind that if you meet the RAV requirements, 70% of your current salary is what you'd get on RAV.
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Old 17.04.2020, 22:54
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Re: Salary cut due to Covid Situation

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HR has sent an email. It is mentioned as a variation in employment conditions due to the global crisis. It is not voluntary but asked to sign and submit it back.
Nothing illegal, they ask your permission through the paper, you can refuse and they can fire you if they please.

Sucks tho.
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  #27  
Old 18.04.2020, 01:20
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Re: Salary cut due to Covid Situation

Here's a current, related thread with a bit more discussion, from someone else who has been asked to agree to a lower salary: https://www.englishforum.ch/employme...reduction.html.
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Old 18.04.2020, 02:24
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Re: CoVid related: voluntary salary reduction

Another thing to keep in mind, usually there is a core group of "friends at the top" who look out for each other. Those won't be the first ones to go.
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Old 18.04.2020, 09:59
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Re: CoVid related: voluntary salary reduction

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Why is federal help not a viable option for your company?
OP - I think as another poster noted, this seems to boil down to a matter of trust. And if you're not clear on why the company is asking this of you, you need to ask more questions to understand the full context - eg: if it turns out that folks above you are taking significant financial hits as well, then that might change your decision process? Not all companies or business owners/executives are evil and out to "screw the little man". Yes, its a shame that communications on this request appear to have not been comprehensive and fully transparent, but without knowing the size of your company, comms can be tricky to effect across hundreds of thousands of employees...

In the case of our company, we qualify for government help under the issued guidelines, and could take advantage of furloughing/kurzarbeit......but refuse to go down that path - for the foreseeable future we're financially viable with cash reserves, and without trying to be all high and mighty, we figure that government financial support is better directed at companies that really need the help, rather than us just taking a "handout". Our leaders and staff all feel the same way and we've had "grown up" conversations already about what all of us will cut/delay/change if the situation comes to it, and we all understand how our colleagues will be impacted as well.
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  #30  
Old 18.04.2020, 12:00
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Re: CoVid related: voluntary salary reduction

I saw a document a few years ago on Swiss TV about a company in Basel who during the financial crisis asked their French frontalier employees to accept a salary cut. They interviewd a French guy who refused to accept a wage reduction and seemed quite stunned when he got a letter informing him that his contract had been terminated. He seemed under the impression that employees in CH enjoyed some type of legal protection against dismissal as in France which is of course not the case. A few months later he still had no job.


In the OP case it really depends on how you see the job market for your skills. If you reckon you can get another job within 18 months then there is no point in accepting a salary reduction as RAV will pay you at least 70% of your salary and you save money being by being unemployed anyway.
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  #31  
Old 18.04.2020, 12:58
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Re: CoVid related: voluntary salary reduction

In my mind it's quite clear that we are all in for a big shock once things return to what we will then call normality. There is going to be a big black hole.
Once the big money box at the SNB starts to show its seams, which will probably be later than in many other countries our belts will be tightened automatically.
Those things we call 'normal' - cars, mountain bikes, shopping weekends, iphones, new trousers, beach holidays, champagne breakfasts and all the rest will fade away into the past.
Those who still have a job won't be splashing out on satisfying desires but will be faced with the need to make-do in many places, not just for themselves but for the community as a whole.


I'm not being negative but to be anything other than realistic should be quite apparent. Calling a annual salary of 90 - 100Fr peanuts shows just how far we have lost our sense of reality.


I feel sorry for all our grandchildren, they will have to get us out of this mess.


And I hope I'm wrong.
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  #32  
Old 18.04.2020, 17:46
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Re: CoVid related: voluntary salary reduction

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ICalling a annual salary of 90 - 100Fr peanuts shows just how far we have lost our sense of reality.

A salary like that will hardly allow a luxury lifestyle in any Swiss city, especially for people with children.
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  #33  
Old 18.04.2020, 17:51
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Re: Salary cut due to Covid Situation

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I work with a global IT company. Recently all middle/ senior managers got letters from HR saying our salaries will be reduced by 30%. The reason cited is a financial loss due to Covid 19 situation. But in reality, the company is using the Covid excuse to hide their mismanagement in the last year. The company is getting the same billing from their client for the work done by me. With this deduction, my salary is less than other junior colleagues who have half of my experience/ skills. (For the junior employees the salary cut is not applicable). The letter does not mention till when the salary cut is applicable.

I feel this is not fair as it will result in a major personal cashflow issue.
My questions are as below,
1. Is it legal to reduce salary in Switzerland? I understand that Swiss kanton has permitted our work permit considering the salary declared by the employer. Employer shows us as special skills and justifies it with salary. How employer can mandate to reduce salary without informing kanton/ immigration/ labour court?
2. If illegal, whom we should approach for help?
3. What will be the cost to get the help?
I work for a consulting company also. In my company those on the bench have been asked to go part time or to take a 30% lower salary for 3 months. However, those on projects working remotely are unaffected until now. Touch wood.
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  #34  
Old 18.04.2020, 20:31
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Re: CoVid related: voluntary salary reduction

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On the other hand, taking the cut will in no way protect you. It's a rare company that really has any loyalty towards staff.

Possibly, they want people to work full time, but just not pay as much. Short hours doesn't allow this.
That sucks Mina.
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  #35  
Old 18.04.2020, 21:12
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Re: CoVid related: voluntary salary reduction

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I'm not being negative but to be anything other than realistic should be quite apparent. Calling a annual salary of 90 - 100Fr peanuts shows just how far we have lost our sense of reality.
Many things are considered everyday items, here, which are certainly seen as luxuries, elsehwere.

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A salary like that will hardly allow a luxury lifestyle in any Swiss city, especially for people with children.
Here are examples of monthly family budgets, based on average Swiss figures, for a family with children.
http://www.budgetberatung.ch/Familienbudget.75.0.html
See:
  • Budgetbeispiele Famile mit 2 Kindern
  • Budgetbeispiele Familie mit 3 Kindern.
each at three income levels, of which
  • 90'000 p.a. (7'500 p.m.) is in the top range for 2 children, and at the top of the middle range for 3 children.
  • 100'000 p.a. (8'300 p.m.) is in the top range for 2 children and for 3 children, allowing for holidays, etc.
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  #36  
Old 18.04.2020, 23:16
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Re: CoVid related: voluntary salary reduction

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In my mind it's quite clear that we are all in for a big shock once things return to what we will then call normality. There is going to be a big black hole.
Once the big money box at the SNB starts to show its seams, which will probably be later than in many other countries our belts will be tightened automatically.
Those things we call 'normal' - cars, mountain bikes, shopping weekends, iphones, new trousers, beach holidays, champagne breakfasts and all the rest will fade away into the past.
Those who still have a job won't be splashing out on satisfying desires but will be faced with the need to make-do in many places, not just for themselves but for the community as a whole.


I'm not being negative but to be anything other than realistic should be quite apparent. Calling a annual salary of 90 - 100Fr peanuts shows just how far we have lost our sense of reality.


I feel sorry for all our grandchildren, they will have to get us out of this mess.


And I hope I'm wrong.
I on the other hand think you are being overly pessimistic.
It could as well be "just a couple of months" of reduced production.
Surely everyone will feel more or less of an impact, but going to the extent that people will "forget about cars, bikes, etc." and "grandchildren getting us out of it" is a bit too extreme, IMO.

P.S. Plenty of businesses also kept working "close to normal" (remote for the ones who could, under control for the ones who couldn't), but lucky are the ones who were able to adapt in such ways.
Let's see if these loosing restrictions coming in the next weeks will manage to keep most of the smaller businesses alive as well.
Fingers crossed that it doesn't rebound, and that these (not too long) closure periods + financial aid suffice to keep them above water.

P.P.S. I'm talking about CH here, not the whole world.

Last edited by gipfelisturmer; 19.04.2020 at 00:14.
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  #37  
Old 19.04.2020, 08:13
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Re: CoVid related: voluntary salary reduction

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[*]90'000 p.a. (7'500 p.m.) is in the top range for 2 children, and at the top of the middle range for 3 children.[*]100'000 p.a. (8'300 p.m.) is in the top range for 2 children and for 3 children, allowing for holidays, etc.[/LIST]
A 100k gross salary translates, with 3 children, to about 6.5k nett salary (with child allowance).
That lands one in the middle of the 2+2 family range "budged advice"
and at 1/3 of the 2+3 family "budget advice".
I think people discussed gross and not net salaries in this thread.
100k net would be perhaps more than 130k gross.
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  #38  
Old 19.04.2020, 11:19
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Re: CoVid related: voluntary salary reduction

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A 100k gross salary translates, with 3 children, to about 6.5k nett salary (with child allowance).
That lands one in the middle of the 2+2 family range "budged advice"
and at 1/3 of the 2+3 family "budget advice".
I think people discussed gross and not net salaries in this thread.
100k net would be perhaps more than 130k gross.
Looking at the source files from budgetberatung.ch, where they talk about net salary, they refer to the Nettolohn on a Swiss person's pay slip, i.e., the salary after social security and pension deductions, but before deduction for taxes.
In their summary of costs, taxes are listed just after accommodation costs in the fixed cost section.
Therefore, for example, if the netto income is 8'000, that would correspond to 96K nettolohn.
Considering the deductions for:
- AHV/OASI (5.275%)
- ALV/UI (1.1%)
- BVG/2nd pillar (4-8%)
- Accident Insurance (0.5-1%)
- Possible other deductions/KTG (0-1%?)
= total approx. deductions of 10.875-16.375% depending on company etc.

Which then suggests an income of 108-115K.
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