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  #21  
Old 01.05.2020, 20:17
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

I am in the risk group for the same reason and I go by public transport. Ask you boss to shif the working hours to 7-16 or 9.30-18.30, there you will be safer
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Old 02.05.2020, 08:58
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

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I am in the risk group for the same reason and I go by public transport. Ask you boss to shif the working hours to 7-16 or 9.30-18.30, there you will be safer
Those are still busy transport times...my 6:30 and 16:30 train is totally full.
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  #23  
Old 02.05.2020, 11:53
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

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You are free to wear a mask on public transport.
The primary purpose of the mask is to prevent you from spreading the virus, not the other way around.
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  #24  
Old 02.05.2020, 12:49
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

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Those are still busy transport times...my 6:30 and 16:30 train is totally full.
depends on direction and transport type. My S-bahn is empty both at 6.20 and 6.50. IR at 6.15 is a bit more crowded yes, but nowhere nearly as packed as the one at 7.15.

Worth checking if there is a 10-20 minute slower connection, which you haven't considered before, but which might be much less crowded
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  #25  
Old 02.05.2020, 14:59
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

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Even before COV19 it was recommended to avoid the rush hour.
Most people don't need a recommendation to reach that conclusion. The question however is if they can.
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Old 03.05.2020, 12:45
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

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depends on direction and transport type. My S-bahn is empty both at 6.20 and 6.50. IR at 6.15 is a bit more crowded yes, but nowhere nearly as packed as the one at 7.15.

Worth checking if there is a 10-20 minute slower connection, which you haven't considered before, but which might be much less crowded
Nope, all crowded...been there done that. This commute was the bane of my existence already pre-COVID-19. (Bern-Zürich Oerlikon)
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Old 03.05.2020, 13:52
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

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The primary purpose of the mask is to prevent you from spreading the virus, not the other way around.
Not only.. if somebody ill coughs on you, if you’re wearing a mask you stand a far better chance of not inhaling the virus yes?
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Old 03.05.2020, 23:13
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

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Those are still busy transport times...my 6:30 and 16:30 train is totally full.
6.30? My good lord that is no time to be awake never mind already on the train.
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  #29  
Old 03.05.2020, 23:16
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

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Those are still busy transport times...my 6:30 and 16:30 train is totally full.
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Not only.. if somebody ill coughs on you, if you’re wearing a mask you stand a far better chance of not inhaling the virus yes?
You logically would have a much lower risk of large particles hitting your mouth and nose.

It's not going to protect you so much from particles lingering in the air I would have thought as it's mesh isn't fine enough unless the mask is super high grade (better than n95).
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  #30  
Old 04.05.2020, 06:50
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

The main problem is not being hit by droplets, but rather inhaling them.
Hand to mouth/face transferal increases inhalation and ingestion.
Surgical or hand made masks suffer primarily by not fitting close to the face, so a (large depending on design)proportion of the inhaled air passes around the mask rather than through it.
The pore size is thought to be a lesser problem as fine droplets (aerosols) are considered less of a problem -these are the droplets transferred by air conditioning vents.
So a large, fine woven scarve wrapped around the face may be a pretty good barrier - but wash it often - soap and water.
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  #31  
Old 04.05.2020, 10:33
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

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6.30? My good lord that is no time to be awake never mind already on the train.
Let me further shock you, sometimes (quite rarely though) I would have already arrived at work by this time.
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  #32  
Old 04.05.2020, 11:23
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

I'm struggling to get my head round any resumption of general office work until at least 8 June. 11 May is retailers & schools; general business is meant to be at least 8 June I thought. And in any case, the existing restrictions of 2m / 5 people continue after 11 May, so an employer would have to make sure this was guaranteed to have any chance of demanding in-person attendance from 11 May, no?
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  #33  
Old 04.05.2020, 11:48
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

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.... so an employer would have to make sure this was guaranteed.....

Is that the case though? The govt. would open a tin of worms if this had to be guaranteed and not just best efforts.
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  #34  
Old 04.05.2020, 22:31
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

As far as I can see BAG still recommends to work from home whenever possible, and they even emphasise the responsibility to protect employees who belong to a vulnerable group:

"Arbeitgeber ermöglichen besonders gefährdeten Personen, ihre Arbeit von zu Hause aus zu erledigen. Dazu treffen sie geeignete organisatorische und technische Massnahmen und ermöglichen bei Bedarf angemessene Ersatzarbeit.

Kann die besonders gefährdete Person nur vor Ort arbeiten, müssen die Arbeitgeber Abläufe oder den Arbeitsplatz so anpassen, dass die betroffene Person geschützt ist. Wenn sich ein Arbeitgeber nicht daran hält, kann der Betrieb geschlossen werden.

Wenn es nicht möglich ist, dass eine betroffene Person zu Hause arbeitet und sie das Risiko am Arbeitsplatz als zu hoch einstuft, kann sie die Arbeit im Betrieb ablehnen. Der Arbeitgeber muss in diesem Fall den Lohn weiter bezahlen.

Eine besonders gefährdete Person teilt ihre besondere Gefährdung ihrem Arbeitgeber durch eine persönliche Erklärung mit. Der Arbeitgeber kann ein ärztliches Attest verlangen.." (BAG website).

Mind you, you still have to bring up the case, document that you're vulnerable, go through the stages of determining whether it's possible for you to work from home or if your workplace can be "secured", and so forth. Not a fun process.

But it's there, clearly stated: if you are at risk, your employer has to offer adequate protection. Where the big discussion can be, is whether you really are at risk according to the official guidelines, or if you perceive yourself to be at risk. Something tells me it's not always a clear either/or assessment.
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  #35  
Old 10.05.2020, 17:43
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

I’d like to ask for opinions on the obligations and duties of an employee, during these Corona times. This is for work that can only be done at the place of employment, so no work-from-home possible.

There’s a ordinance called: Ordinance on the prevention of accidents and illnesses at work. Article 11 is about that «Duties of the employee». In paragraph 3, it says: The employee may not put himself in a condition in which he endangers himself or other employees.

Here’s the text
in German: https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi....html#id-1-2-2
in French: https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi....html#id-1-2-2
in Italian: https://www.admin.ch/opc/it/classifi....html#id-1-2-2

In this case, a specific employee, who is not in a risk category, believes that the whole Corona crisis is overrated and that people don’t get sick and die nearly as much as the media hypes it, and anyway that he is invulnerable. Consequently, in his private life, he does not adhere to the health measures defined by the BAG, considering them to be an absurd lot of nonsense.

He has made his views known honestly, and has said he would be willing to wash his hands upon arrival at work if specifically required to do so, and would also submit to maintaining 2m distance from other persons at work, if they insist.

Our question is about what he does in his private life. On one hand, that’s none of the employer’s business, nor that of his colleagues. On the other hand, through his behaviour outside of the workplace, he might be jeopardising the health of everyone else at work.

He’s been away for a while, first on an assignment elsewhere, and immediately thereafter on leave. He’s due to return in 2 weeks’ time. The rest of the people at work all stick to the governmentally prescribed health measures, at work and in private. They are now getting edgy at the thought of their health potentially being endangered just because one of their colleagues doesn’t consitently practice sufficient care.

This is a valuable and esteemed team member, and neither the employer nor the colleagues would like to see him be made to leave. But they all want to stay safe. What’s to be done? I'd appreciate any thoughts on this matter, both legal views and sugggestions about how to steer through this. Thank you.
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Old 12.05.2020, 22:50
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

I'm bumping this because I'd really appreciate suggestions. Thanks.
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  #37  
Old 13.05.2020, 22:35
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

Social distancing doesn't guarantee safety, like the other measures it just reduces the risk. In a recent interview with Taiwan's Digital Minister Audrey Tang the reporter asked "If you had to pick, would you chose masks or your tracing app?", to which she replied "I'd chose soap and hand sanitizers".

I don't think the employer can do anything here, what people do in their free time is very much none of the employer's business. Certain behaviours increase the risk of catching a flu, you couldn't order him not to do xyz either (and probably wouldn't) even though he would put his co-workers at risk as well if he showed up for work sick.

Given that most measures will be lifted soon, and that he'll respect social distancing and hygiene, efforts to force or punish him would seem excessive, probably counterproductive as well because next time he may decide to avoid the trouble by saying nothing.

An "actions speak louder than words" approach by the co-workers may be much more productive, perhaps not so much for now but for a second wave - washing hands for example should be considered good practice for and practiced by everybody.
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  #38  
Old 13.05.2020, 23:56
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

Thank you for these thoughts, Urs Max.

Yes, that's exactly the tension, between what your rightly say: "what people do in their free time is very much none of the employer's business", and on the other hand that "he would [potentially, my addition] put his co-workers at risk... if he showed up for work sick". I think the additional layer of concern comes from knowing that with Corona, one can be infected and infectious without showing symptoms of being sick, oneself, but if anyone else gets it from him that might be very dire for them.

The other thing is that while all his colleagues are adhering to the hygiene rules, strictly or at least mostly, this person has specifically said that he does not and will not respect social distancing and hygiene, has not been doing so all along, and ain't gonna start now. So just by that his behaviour places him in at a higher risk of picking up something and taking it with him to work.

It's quite a conundrum.
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  #39  
Old 14.05.2020, 10:42
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

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It's quite a conundrum.
Would asking *him* to provide the solution perhaps work? Have *him* solve the problem he's creating?
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Old 14.05.2020, 10:57
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Re: COVID-19 and legality

If he keeps to the rules at work, I cannot see why "he" is the problem. At the best of times, one does not know where ones coworkers have been or how they act. I have noticed how sharing of drinks etc has changed over the years as peoples awareness of hepatitis transfer has grown.
People usually make "free" choices about whom to directly exchange body fluids with.
OK, Covid infected aerosols change the game, but social distancing, hand hygiene and masks should solve the transmission problem.
Maybe the coworkers have to accept the situation.
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