Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Employment  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07.05.2020, 02:24
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Zürich
Posts: 75
Groaned at 24 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts
timpeterson has become a little unpopulartimpeterson has become a little unpopular
Is being a developer a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?

Is software-development (being an actual developer coding) a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?
I see most of all the large companies have 50-80% easteuropean and indian workers that are very capable and hard working. They can get top skilled workforce that are happy to work at low swiss rates.

I see developer salaries are steadily dropping and big scale outsourcing is getting more normal. Are we as swiss residence in some way forced to go into management if we want i high engineering salary?
I see people with 20y experience are capped at max 150k/y. I understand swiss companies will do this and i would probalby do the same if i had a large company. I'm not trying to complain about it, just wanna face the facts if this career is a dead end.

I like development but feel like the gap between management and development is getting bigger and bigger. Expectation for a good rate is growing and 2-3 positions gets merged to 1. Like you have to be super human is a swiss resident. If they can't find a 3in1 candidate it gets outsourced.

What you guys think, you have a similar experience and what do you think the future of software development will be? Am i right or missing something?

(Please exclude outliers like Google, Facebook and other abnormal high paying tech-product companies that appreciate developers - even these guys are moving things east)

Last edited by timpeterson; 07.05.2020 at 02:36.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank timpeterson for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 07.05.2020, 08:50
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 8,082
Groaned at 484 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 14,715 Times in 5,780 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is being a developer a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?

No
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 07.05.2020, 10:18
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 14,209
Groaned at 256 Times in 224 Posts
Thanked 21,099 Times in 8,567 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is being a developer a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?

Quote:
View Post
Is being a developer a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?
Yes it is. Seek alternative employment immediately!*




* That's one less competitor.

Last edited by NotAllThere; 07.05.2020 at 14:26.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 07.05.2020, 10:20
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is being a developer a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?

150K is not a bad salary on Switzerland. We had many threads on this before. A lot of expats totally overestimate what everybody else is earning. 150K is a very good salary and many people with good skills and high work morale never get anywhere near that .

I agree that there is outsourcing of jobs and there are contractors from low cost countries But there are also still people doing well as programmers over here and not all work can easily or reasonably be outsourced .

If you have the right skills and keep them up to date employers will be screaming for you to come and work for them.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 07.05.2020, 10:30
BasP72's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Adliswil (close to Zurich)
Posts: 1,923
Groaned at 82 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 1,777 Times in 848 Posts
BasP72 has a reputation beyond reputeBasP72 has a reputation beyond reputeBasP72 has a reputation beyond reputeBasP72 has a reputation beyond reputeBasP72 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is being a developer a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?

Quote:
View Post
If you have the right skills and keep them up to date employers will be screaming for you to come and work for them.
Unfortunately though this does not lead to higher salaries... is cartel forming legal with this respect ?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07.05.2020, 10:35
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is online now
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 3,700
Groaned at 44 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 4,948 Times in 2,298 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is being a developer a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?

IF changing from code development to management and earn more is possible, well.......it's not a dead end because the opportunity to grow is there as you presented it. Choosing to take the opportunity or let it pass is a whole different topic.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07.05.2020, 10:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,592
Groaned at 305 Times in 232 Posts
Thanked 19,688 Times in 6,859 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is being a developer a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?

Make sure that you have some additional skills, like actually understanding the business, communication skills and knowledge of the local language. That gives you some competitive advantage.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07.05.2020, 11:30
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 4,928
Groaned at 184 Times in 120 Posts
Thanked 8,553 Times in 2,871 Posts
Kittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond reputeKittster has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is being a developer a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?

I can't take threads about how earning almost twice what the average Swiss person earns is a dead end seriously. Check your privilege.
Reply With Quote
The following 12 users would like to thank Kittster for this useful post:
This user groans at Kittster for this post:
  #9  
Old 07.05.2020, 12:02
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,459
Groaned at 175 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 4,947 Times in 1,902 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is being a developer a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?

Quote:
View Post
I can't take threads about how earning almost twice what the average Swiss person earns is a dead end seriously. Check your privilege.
Why, what has it got to do with privilege ? Developers don't normally get given programming skills, they spend many many days, weeks, months and years learning them.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Mikers for this useful post:
This user groans at Mikers for this post:
  #10  
Old 07.05.2020, 17:30
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Zürich
Posts: 75
Groaned at 24 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts
timpeterson has become a little unpopulartimpeterson has become a little unpopular
Re: Is being a developer a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?

Quote:
View Post
I can't take threads about how earning almost twice what the average Swiss person earns is a dead end seriously. Check your privilege.
Great inputs here, thanks!
These kind of jobs are very demanding and once your 40 you start getting discriminated. So earnings need to be high. Also this is one of the highest paying fields and countries in the world, so it has to be high. Not to mention basic swiss living expense are high. I myself feel like i'm working 24/7 to keep up with the market. I'm worried that it's mainly the superrich that benefit from the economies development since life quality has not change much since our parents time, but the rich has gotten alot richer. We all have good conditions i won't complain but i suspect i could be a whole other level of greatness if the superrich didn't have to stockpile 80% of the world capital.

I just see the gap between rich(1mio) and superrich(100mio) is getting very large. And it seems to be on the "expense of" the rich(1mio) and below. I like the trend the techjobs really has created some wealth distribution but not disturbing to see this falling down. I Assume all we can do as many of you mention is to focus getting top skills in high demand field.

But my main point this threat is an 20year+ developer will get the same as a basic dev that goes into management. It seems very distorted to me, but maybe the path i would have to take because the longterm benefits are so big versus actual coding.

Conclusion: Management is likely the best longterm path a swiss. The super-rich are not planning on paying anyone more unless the absolutely have to. The gap between super-rich and rich will keep growing to the extreme side. Life quality will slowly go up, especially for the superrich. Try to make a business in a new industry not already dominated by the superrich.

Hope the discussions can continue, and we can have a constructive conclusion.

For the hijackers: Take this as a lesson on how the capitalistic economy works. I'm trying to get something out of the super rich because i know these companies can afford it. I'm worried all this ruthless cost cutting mainly benefit the superrich (major shareholder in fortune500 companies) and that the money is not getting distributed to the people that deserve it. Highly skilled hardworking people that create the things we all like to use. Let focus on how all can get better pay than that the privileged should just shut it. The super rich are the unfairly privileged(inheritance) i would understand you could have a grudge on. If the superrich redistribute better you will likely become privileged as well. Anyone from Switzerland is very privilege, let's hope it stays that way. I won't talk more about that

Last edited by timpeterson; 07.05.2020 at 19:26.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09.05.2020, 18:53
nickatbasel's Avatar
Mod, Chips and Mushy Peas
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Albisrieden
Posts: 5,278
Groaned at 158 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 8,212 Times in 3,041 Posts
nickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Is being a developer a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?

With my paper round I am able to support my family, go on extended holidays to balconia, eat finely cooked meals at Le Salon and still have change for chips on the way home.

Quote:
View Post
I can't take threads about how earning almost twice what the average Swiss person earns is a dead end seriously. Check your privilege.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank nickatbasel for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 07.05.2020, 12:46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 486
Groaned at 16 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 248 Times in 143 Posts
poot is considered knowledgeablepoot is considered knowledgeablepoot is considered knowledgeable
Re: Is being a developer a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?

Quote:
View Post
I see most of all the large companies have 50-80% easteuropean and indian workers that are very capable and hard working.

Offshoring, especially to India, is not done for or measured by getting capable and hard-working staff
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank poot for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 31.05.2020, 16:26
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kindhausen
Posts: 133
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 69 Times in 37 Posts
PitBull has earned some respectPitBull has earned some respect
Re: Is being a developer a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?

Quote:
View Post
Is software-development (being an actual developer coding) a dead end in Switzerland due to outsourcing?
I see most of all the large companies have 50-80% easteuropean and indian workers that are very capable and hard working. They can get top skilled workforce that are happy to work at low swiss rates.
Software Development is definitely not a dead end, and there are plenty of jobs available at all levels - but especially for talented developers with experience in growth areas like AI, graphics, blockchain and most financial fields.

Outsourcing to India is not the solution some CIOs thought it was - it needs a lot of good & proactive mgmt at both ends to make it work (many companies fail at this) otherwise the quality of deliverables is poor and the purported cost savings can be eaten up with the re-work. Quite a few have either started to roll back on outsourcing, or never went that route.

Near-shoring to Poland, Romania etc is still booming - perhaps the more closely aligned working ethics/styles can lead to better results. But even here, a lot of the work is still more the lifecycle maintenance stuff rather than novel new development.

Bottom line: if you're any good and you can show this to potential employers then you will find the work.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank PitBull for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
career advice, jobs, software, software developer, software engineering




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What’s with all the outsourcing? Susie-Q Employment 70 29.06.2019 16:15
Several Developer positions in Lausanne, Switzerland Mikers Jobs offered 0 14.03.2019 23:13
Getting hired as a newbie web developer in Switzerland? NFA Employment 1 04.12.2018 01:29
How to get a job in Switzerland for a non-EU software developer from the US? Duos Employment 4 24.03.2014 18:09
Business Intelligence Developer (IBM Cognos Developer) - salary in Zurich monte82 Employment 1 23.02.2012 14:15


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0